AI Discussion (dev branch)

[froggyluv 2130]

Using DA's KA mission I also got the quick jump to 1.5 after he was hit that returned to zero after a little bit but I thought they were telling us that knowsAbout isnt an actual gauge of what they erhm...know. On the flipside he never spotted me even after my tracers were shooting straight at him and I was standing clear as day on that ridge -so theres an issue there as well.

[das attorney 857]

Okay just a short test as really tired but there's definitely some weird stuff going on:

1:45:01 "* * * GENERAL STUFF * * *"
1:45:01 "Actual position: [6550.31,5209.77,-0.0439072]"
1:45:01 "dist to man: 444.661"
1:45:01 "time: [b]394.897[/b]"
1:45:01 "shots fired: 22"
1:45:01 "* * * TARGET KNOWLEDGE * * *"
1:45:01 "target is known by group: true"
1:45:01 "target is known known by unit: true"
1:45:01 "last time target was seen by unit: -2.14748e+006"
1:45:01 "last time target endangered unit: 394.846"
1:45:01 "target side: WEST"
1:45:01 "target position error coef: 44.3037"
1:45:01 "target position: [6542.63,5190.67,73.1658]"
1:45:01 "* * * NEAR TARGETS (700m) * * *"
1:45:01 "near targets: [[6542.63,5190.67,0.201408],[b]"SoldierWB"[/b],WEST,80000,BIS_fnc_objectVar_obj1,44.3037]"
1:45:01 "* * * KNOWSABOUT * * *"
1:45:01 "knowsabout: 1.5"
1:45:01 "error in perceived position: 74.9722"
1:45:02 "------------------------------"

And then a second or so later:

1:45:02 "* * * GENERAL STUFF * * *"
1:45:02 "Actual position: [6550.31,5209.77,-0.0443497]"
1:45:02 "dist to man: 444.649"
1:45:02 "time: [b]395.9[/b]"
1:45:02 "shots fired: 22"
1:45:02 "* * * TARGET KNOWLEDGE * * *"
1:45:02 "target is known by group: true"
1:45:02 "target is known known by unit: true"
1:45:02 "last time target was seen by unit: 395.271"
1:45:02 "last time target endangered unit: 394.846"
1:45:02 "target side: WEST"
1:45:02 "target position error coef: 0.403929"
1:45:02 "target position: [6549.97,5209.82,77.5308]"
1:45:02 "* * * NEAR TARGETS (700m) * * *"
1:45:02 "near targets: [[6549.97,5209.82,0.200874],[b]"CAManBase"[/b],WEST,100000,BIS_fnc_objectVar_obj1,0.403929]"
1:45:02 "* * * KNOWSABOUT * * *"
1:45:02 "knowsabout: 1.5"
1:45:02 "error in perceived position: 77.5275"
1:45:03 "------------------------------"

So he knew I was a Western soldier and then "forgot" and could then only identify me as a man even though he was gaining other knowledge about me.

EDIT: There's a better mission here with much more information if you want it Froggyluv :)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101800212/KA2.Stratis.7z

Edit 2 I was just looking at targetKnowledge and nearTargets...

So targetKnowledge's perceived position is ASL I think and nearTargets is ATL/AGL but they marry up in terms of the position.

I made a mistake in the script there as well as my "error in perceived position" is just the difference in z values between where I am (ATL) and the return from targetKnowledge (ASL) so ignore that readout, that's my bad.

Also, the "target position error coef" in targetKnowledge seems to be equivalent to "(since build 5209:) position accuracy (assumed accuracy of the perceived position)" in nearTargets so I guess under the hood, they're pulling the data from the same source which would make sense.

Just for the record, the nearTargets array does clear when your knowsAbout returns to 0. (At least when I tried it).

Edited July 14, 2015 by Das Attorney

[KeyCat 131]

That "somewhat aware of you" is a bit probelmatic, still. If you're being shot - out of the blue - you're most likely not able to pinpoint the attacker that quickly - if at all...

^This!

/KC

[inlesco 233]

It'd be great if BIS had released a full-featured framework for their internal QA. I'm sure they have it to ensure AI doesn't break after any type of bigger behavior overhaul, especially with its 'safe/aware/combat' behavior.

As for AI's inability to move forward in 'COMBAT', IMO, 'Combat' could be separated into 2 distinct states: 'COMBAT' and 'FULL COMBAT'.

In 'COMBAT' units move fast (depending on type of waypoint maybe?), while 'FULL COMBAT' is a way more careful advanced.

[oukej 2910]

The AIs in "combat" aren't slow by design really (they are cautious, but they also shouldn't fall behind), it's mainly because there's a nasty bug in the behavior FSM.

[Bouben 3]

The AIs in "combat" aren't slow by design really (they are cautious, but they also shouldn't fall behind), it's mainly because there's a nasty bug in the behavior FSM.

Nice to know you are aware of it. Thanks.

[Variable 322]

The AIs in "combat" aren't slow by design really (they are cautious, but they also shouldn't fall behind), it's mainly because there's a nasty bug in the behavior FSM.

Breakthrough! That's great news, even just the mere acknowledgement that slowness was not by design.

[mad_cheese 592]

The AIs in "combat" aren't slow by design really (they are cautious, but they also shouldn't fall behind), it's mainly because there's a nasty bug in the behavior FSM.

This being worked on is the best news I could think of. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

[x3kj 1247]

I tested the updated AI tank driving for commandeered drivers a bit.

I feel like there is one general problem with commandeered driver and that is that it can't decide if it wants to be an autonomous driver (you tell it to go backwards and it picks a route that leads it to continue backwards), or a "stupid" driver (it only executes the order of the commander). Right now it's a mix between the two and this can be frustrating. The capability of the AI is clearly not up to the task to be completely autonomous.

For example, if you tell it to go backwards, it will try to avoid stuff, but forgets where it was supposed to drive. It turns to avoid an Obstacle 1, (if it manages to avoid and doesnt get stuck) then continues it's current course (which may as well be in the opposite direction you commanded it to), to Obstacle 2, again course change and so on.

And this doesnt even work. In some situations the driver will turn the tank round and round if you order it to go backwards

My suggestion/wish is, that directly commandeered driver AI goes to 100% "stupid" (only execute orders of the commander immediately and without "planning" of it's own). If you want the AI to do route planning you can use waypoints on the map, or via waypoint setting in 1st person view. But, as often, this does not work properly we should be able to command the AI directly to fix it, without the AI interfering. If the AI bumps into anything while you command it directly, that is the fault of the commander for giving bad orders. When i was part of a Wiesel crew we did slalom course racing in reverse, with the commander directing the driver. When poop hits the fan, the last thing you need is the AI driver to try and do something "clever", so it would be better if we get this direct command option in case waypoint finding does not work properly.

Another thing i noticed is the change when you tap left or right, it will execute a slight S-curve, instead of making small course corrections. In some situations this is nice, when you want to avoid a telephonepole, stones, etc. But in most situations it makes commanding frustrating, because small adjustements are not possible. When precision is required, it's an absolute pain - e.g. when i drive on to the bridge in the video. You can see this also from 1:18 onwards , where i try to drive on the road for a bit. Combined with the oversensible steering of the Moira it looks like a drunkard is driving.

[inlesco 233]

X3KJ, nice points written.

• Speaking of too-sensitive direction adjustments on left/right commanding, BIS should add a parameter to specify the angle (in degrees) of which an AI rotates to on a single command.
  
• Also, yes - let the player-commander overtake driving control for maximum precision in the most difficult situations. Nobody will blame you for that, BIS, and it's so easy to fix (various mods have done it years ago in OFP).
  
• 
  

Customization is the king. Arma surely wants to be the king of sandbox :D.

[Variable 322]

Speaking of too-sensitive direction adjustments on left/right commanding, BIS should add a parameter to specify the angle (in degrees) of which an AI rotates to on a single command.

That's not how commanding works in real life and in Arma (since OFP). The AI driver, when commanded to turn left, for example, will rotate left until A key is released. It's very effective. While I agree that the AI should go "fully dumb" on reverse (they can't even see to the back of the tank, why would they know there's an obstacle) and on any player-commander command, this mechanism should remain the same as it is.

Also, yes - let the player-commander overtake driving control for maximum precision in the most difficult situations. Nobody will blame you for that, BIS, and it's so easy to fix (various mods have done it years ago in OFP).

I definitely don't want to see such a feature that lets the player commander take manual driving controls. As said above, the current mechanism is perfect, and is already quite manual. The AI just do what you say, the only difference from taking manual control is that you hear your own voice while commanding the AI. Just need to fix the reverse fully and that's it. Let's no over-complicate a solution to a simple problem.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Speaking of AI vehicle movement commands; the key binds for these appear to be hardcoded unlike Arma 2. Is there a possibility that these can be opened up to rebinding for those of us who use alternative key binds?

[DancZer 65]

IMO commanding the AI to drive on the road should be a separated command/mode(eg. toggle option in the action menu). Like "enable road mode" or "follow road". After that when you say forward then the AI should go always on the road. It should not matter how is the road turning. In this mode Left and Right should work for the next crossroad. If there is an obstacle on the road then AI should automatically avoid it for any command(eg. forward). Why this? Because if the driver is a human then you say him follow the road and not forward, left, forward, right, left, left, right, forward, stop ....

On the off-road it would be good some sensitive button eg. If you press Shift+A that would mean slow right, if you press Shift+D it would mean slow left. This allow us precise controlling as a commander.

Backward: AI should go blindly.

Well thats my two cents.

[x3kj 1247]

That's not how commanding works in real life and in Arma (since OFP). The AI driver, when commanded to turn left, for example, will rotate left until A key is released. It's very effective. While I agree that the AI should go "fully dumb" on reverse (they can't even see to the back of the tank, why would they know there's an obstacle) and on any player-commander command, this mechanism should remain the same as it is.

Yes i agree, just the S-curve thingy should be reverted, because it makes driving between two objects (gate, bridge or between 2 rocks) very very difficult. This and the "dumb" mode for reverse, and driver commanding will be optimal. The oversensitive steering of the Moira is a seperate issue that should be looked at from a handling perspective, and not solved via AI tweaking.

IMO commanding the AI to drive on the road should be a separated command/mode(eg. toggle option in the action menu).

I don't feel like this is necessary. AI follows the road if you give it a waypoint on the road (at least most of the time, from what i can tell...). And if the S-curve behaviour is reverted to normal it is not difficult to drive on a road via driver-commanding.

[Variable 322]

I don't feel like this is necessary. AI follows the road if you give it a waypoint on the road (at least most of the time, from what i can tell...). And if the S-curve behaviour is reverted to normal it is not difficult to drive on a road via driver-commanding.

Exactly. NO NEED for more commands. Give the AI a waypoint and it will move on the roads towards it if the AI is on "Aware" and move off-road if it is in "Danger" mods.

[Varanon 892]

After being hit with it in one of the campaign missions: It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to rearm AI units. Honestly, they don't rearm. Tell them to rearm somewhere, and they grab a single magazine from the source, even though there is plenty in there. And how do you have them rearm ? There's the option to scroll through 100s of "Take that XXX" and find the "Rearm at XXX" option, and it's anybody's guess where this exactly is. In most circumstances, the AI will just run off somewhere because the rearm target is somewhere half a kilometer back.

[ceeeb 147]

Most AI seem to become stuck and refuse to move once they have gone prone in current dev build 1.49.131583

Edited July 20, 2015 by ceeeb

[h - 169]

Most AI seem to become stuck and refuse to move once they have gone prone in current dev build 1.49.131583

Ticket: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=24874

[MrSanchez 243]

The AIs in "combat" aren't slow by design really (they are cautious, but they also shouldn't fall behind), it's mainly because there's a nasty bug in the behavior FSM.

I am running an AI mod (has a custom danger.fsm, I enabled debug mode to monitor variables) and now and then I come across an enemy AI (that used to be part of a bigger group) that is prone and is not doing anything..he is able to fire if I'm directly in front of him. He is able to track & shoot me as far as his upper torso allows him to rotate.

Once he can not turn his upper body any further he just stops...

I tried everything to get this to change but no cigar...I tried setcombatmode, setbehaviour, enableAI, i tried doMove, setPos, setUnitPos, setUnitPosWeak...I tried unitReady to see if he's doing something actively..nope...

Whatever the .... I do, this AI won't budge..he won't move..

Then I tried cursorTarget setBehaviour "CARELESS" and he rotated lower body a little bit, for about 1 sec and then stuck in the same position....same thing..

Does anyone know of a scripting command that I have not listed up above yet? You know..something that enables AIs to use their legs instead of their upper torso? XD

Btw, he had 0 damage (getDammage was 0)

I am in the dev version 1.49.131583, is this related at all to what oukej mentioned? Is this a bug I can't do anything about?

Once I am done testing my AI mod I will run without mods to see if I can reproduce this behaviour.

edit: a new dev branch update came out: Fixed: AI no longer gets stuck in prone stance

I will do some testing to see if this was related to my issue or the issue above.

Kind regards,

Sanchez

Edited July 21, 2015 by PhonicStudios

[h - 169]

Seems that AI in Stealth mode uses handgrenades to attack enemies(?), pretty non-stealth IMO..

[otrebla_snake_ita 2]

Is there any news about the AI pathfinding both on foot and inside vehicles?

What about the fast moving in formation (I mean not stopping every 3 secs looking around and breaking formation) without tactical pace (if needed), for the AI teammates?

 

And I see there's a fix for the AI getting stuck and not moving again, but I think it and its fix weren't inclueded in the 1.48 (otherwise, I found the bug again)...should it be fixed once for all, at last?

Oh and another one: what about the AI "not changing stance" bug when is in cover behind a wall exc (I mean the cover system)?

 

Thanks :)

 

I've tried some AI mods these days, they make some nice work but they break the single player campaign experience, so I thought they didn't worth it! :)

[chortles 263]

Little in the way of "big" AI changes out there beyond the AI ability to toss smoke, but at least a dev identified one particular problem (constant combat mode?) as being due to an admittedly severe bug.

[otrebla_snake_ita 2]

Little in the way of "big" AI changes out there beyond the AI ability to toss smoke, but at least a dev identified one particular problem (constant combat mode?) as being due to an admittedly severe bug.

Yes! I've seen it and it's very appreciated, but many problems are still there fully operational, above all related to pathfinding and the maximum amount of disasters happens with vehicles!

 

Arma is a very special game, but those AI bugs risk to ruin it a little because using stupid teammate soldiers or fighting against brainless ones can be so frustrating!

[andersson 285]

Tank commanding was perfect in OFP. Give them a waypoint and they drove there according to their behavior (safe on roads, if not through terrain), give them an order to go forward or backward they drove in a straight line until you stopped them. Good to knock down walls and what not. If they hit something it was your, the commanders, fault as they just did what you told them to and you have better visibility and should know. If you told them to turn left or right they did it until you released the button. 

 

Simple and perfect.

[froggyluv 2130]

 Kind of mind boggling that we still can't command our troops out of Auto Danger but the AI themselves can yell "Clear!" and it works no problem. What gives? Is there a demon in the code, do we need an exorcist? Seriously this is so game altering for those of us who do like playing with AI that an update, or any hint of "we are going after this with all we've got" would be really nice to hear. Can't we have an AI team plan log similar to the Audio team? Why are we left in the dark here?                         

 

 Speaking of which, Lights Off command for squaddies with flashlights on still doesn't work as long as they are in Auto Danger mode -a big deal for night missions. Sincerely hope this is getting attention for our upcoming DLC.