AI Discussion (dev branch)

[maturin 12]

i don't know if it was the mission i played but AI helicopters seem pretty hesitent to actively search for infantry. once we annoyed them with some AA rockets they fired some shots but it would be great if the gunners would really scan the area for enemies and would hunt them down. in arma 2 you had to be really afraid of attack helis sometimes. something seems wrong with the "cost/threat" levels.

But also remember how much fine it is to hide from searching choppers.

Gunner's optics and FLIR should probably make the difference between all-knowing hunters and dim witted Hueys.

[metalcraze 290]

I am actually surprised that i even have to tell you why.

I don't know who you play with, but i never saw anybody do that kind of stuff...the last one that i saw do that was an aimbot on counter strike...

On another thread one month ago there was people complaining that when the player is prone can do super turns, now you guys encourage it?

Player doing super turns is a mechanic that I've been complaining myself about since first alpha release. It's evident by now that BIS does not want to fix it. So they should allow AI to do same super turns when prone. Otherwise prone stance for AI will mean certain death whenever an enemy will come from the side or rear.

If player has no limits when prone, neither should AI. If BIS does not want to fix arcade movement of human players, then AI should be the same. I don't know about you but personally I want to fight equal enemies, not nerfed enemies that I can exploit to no end (like AI's prone stance or AI's slow turning speed when it sprints).

Remember BIS excuse for mirroring sniper rifles a few months back? "We want to make AI on par with the player". Well then do it.

Edited August 29, 2013 by metalcraze

[windies 11]

i don't know if it was the mission i played but AI helicopters seem pretty hesitent to actively search for infantry. once we annoyed them with some AA rockets they fired some shots but it would be great if the gunners would really scan the area for enemies and would hunt them down. in arma 2 you had to be really afraid of attack helis sometimes. something seems wrong with the "cost/threat" levels.

I haven't been able to get any of the attack helicopters to engage infantry, even in open fields with no cover.

[Tyl3r99 41]

can we have it so when medics are healing people they dont wonder off... its kind of un realistic lol

---------- Post added at 06:54 ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 ----------

I haven't been able to get any of the attack helicopters to engage infantry, even in open fields with no cover.

i also agree i havent seen attack helis attack ground units other than the occasional IFRIT

[maturin 12]

Can we please stay on topic. Respond to the dev posts.

20 minutes after you post here, your words descend into oblivion where no one will ever read them again. If you want to effect change now, help the devs with what they're actually working on at this very moment. Otherwise, post on the bugtracker where everything is cataloged and saved.

[Variable 322]

If BIS does not want to fix arcade movement of human players, then AI should be the same.

I disagree with the logic that says, "let's keep the AI broken since the Players movements are broken".

I agree the player movements are ridiculous, and for an Arma game to have player inertia values such as they are now is no less than a disgrace. But avoid to unfuck the AI because of that? That's a no no right there...

I wish BIS would fix the player movement already, and if not, I wish modders could do that, but even if they won't or can't, I still want to see realistic AI as much as possible, even at the cost of widening the gap between AI and player.

[metalcraze 290]

If BIS did not fix player movement in 6 months and have zero plans to do so - they surely will not fix it any time soon. If complaining for that long didn't help it's safe to assume BIS will keep on pushing ArmA3 into an arcade shooter land and there's nothing we can do about that.

So you will have your gap between a player and AI where you will exploit AI by using 'authentic' superpowers given exclusively to human players by BIS - but will it be fun?

[-ghost-tf 12]

If BIS did not fix player movement in 6 months and have zero plans to do so - they surely will not fix it any time soon. If complaining for that long didn't help it's safe to assume BIS will keep on pushing ArmA3 into an arcade shooter land and there's nothing we can do about that.

I dont think that BIS necessarily doesnt want to fix it, probably just lack of time (looking at how many stuff they axed/delayed), altough the lack of information about any plans for post release about this and other gamebreaking issues is frustrating..

So you will have your gap between a player and AI where you will exploit AI by using 'authentic' superpowers given exclusively to human players by BIS - but will it be fun?

I have to agree with Variable, instead of breaking the AI to make them equal to the player, BIS just needs to fix the players instead. If that means having to play with a "nerfed AI" until the issue does actually get fixed, then so be it. I personally wont be playing arma3 much until inertia and medical system get fixed anyway, but maybe thats just me :)

[kremator 1064]

Can't we just add PhysX inertia onto the players and AI ?

[chrisb 196]

We need the best possible AI, but movement also has to be the best possible. At the moment movement is bad, they float and skit around like a stage act from a bad circus..

Haven’t tried the new AI yet, will get around to it soon, hope things are better.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Speaking about speed, one thing i've noticed is that AI movement / animations are in average a tad too fast for my taste.

Made a few tests with setAccTime and i've found that 10-15% slower animations is looking better for me.

Probably highly subjective ...

[ScratcH334 10]

Just had a CQB battle in Kavala and I have to say that the AI are far more deadlier now with their adjusted turn speed. Not in the sense of giving you a headshot after they've turned around but they react in a couple of miliseconds and fire some shots in your direction. I also had a situation where one enemy came around a corner, in the instant he saw me he stopped moving and opened fire. Much better than we had before!

Now all that is left is for the AI to stick to their squad and not wander off in towns, at least not alone.

Edited August 29, 2013 by ScratcH334

[mr_centipede 31]

I just stumbled on an AI that walked around a corner and shot me the moment he turned and noticed me... before this, it will either go to prone/crouch then point, and shoot. Now they just point and shoot. I think it's good.

Btw this is not on a specifically CQB scenario in town (my PC cant handle it). It's just a simple assault on a hill, but there's a small house near there and that's where the encounter around a corner happened

[klamacz 447]

Any talented mission maker to make a shooting range, where players could play against the AI?

Having such scenario could help with gathering data and also would give more players the possibility to see recent changes and gives the feedback.

[cthulhu616 3]

what exactly do you need?

[Furret 0]

Any talented mission maker to make a shooting range, where players could play against the AI?

Having such scenario could help with gathering data and also would give more players the possibility to see recent changes and gives the feedback.

Gammadust is the closest to what you're asking, his thread is here

[klamacz 447]

Shooting range with lanes and random targets. AI soldiers with different skills and player. Spawn 10 targets on each lane and gather time and accuracy results so players can compare themself to AI but also will give good overview if artificial behave more natural.

Just an idea though, I like what Gammadust is doing but that's a bit different purpose

[cthulhu616 3]

Shooting range with lanes and random targets. AI soldiers with different skills and player. Spawn 10 targets on each lane and gather time and accuracy results so players can compare themself to AI but also will give good overview if artificial behave more natural.

Just an idea though, I like what Gammadust is doing but that's a bit different purpose

i will see what i can do, when i'm at home...

Edited August 29, 2013 by Cthulhu616

[OMAC 254]

And what we really need is an AI that starts shooting poorly and then gets more accurate with each single shot. This simulates the AI walking rounds onto the target while also giving the player a chance to survive accurate AI (which should be a real threat to point targets out to 200m or so).

This is a very good idea. Also AI accuracy should be temporarily decreased when they are subjected to suppressive fire (shots impacting or passing close [<=5m] to them), if it isn't already.

I find it quite disconcerting that such core issues as AI movement and accuracy are still in such a state of flux about 2 weeks before game release. Such issues substantially affect mission design. But hey, better late than never. :rolleyes:

Edited August 29, 2013 by OMAC

[bad benson 1733]

But also remember how much fine it is to hide from searching choppers.

Gunner's optics and FLIR should probably make the difference between all-knowing hunters and dim witted Hueys.

exactly my point. i'm not asking for all knowing super helis. but having them hover over an AO does nothing until you are in a vehicle right now. i want to have to hide from them using houses etc. it's all about the interesting game play. i'd be fine with them just using the gatling gun and not the rockets like in arma 2. just make them do something.

[windies 11]

This is a very good idea. Also AI accuracy should be temporarily decreased when they are subjected to suppressive fire (shots impacting or passing close [<=5m] to them), if it isn't already.

I find it quite disconcerting that such core issues as AI movement and accuracy are still in such a state of flux about 2 weeks before game release. Such issues substantially affect mission design. But hey, better late than never. :rolleyes:

Basically like a bubble around their target that expands and contracts based on variables. Am I being shot at? Is he running? Did he break LOS? etc... Then I would like to see accuracy as a separately editable setting from any of the other skill settings.

[Shagulon 1]

I recommend everyone play one of the missions from the workshop, its called "Assault on Charkia - SP".

Its basically an infantry assault on a town on the new map Altis. I think it shows off pretty well the advances made with the AI.

When I think back to ARMA 2, the improvement is pretty plain to see.

[maturin 12]

So you will have your gap between a player and AI where you will exploit AI by using 'authentic' superpowers given exclusively to human players by BIS - but will it be fun?

Yes, it will be lots and lots of fun. Because unless you are in a moral panic about the poor AI you might exploit (and like most moral panics, it acts like a very rare event will be of all-encompassing significance), it's just not going to be noticeable.

The AI in CQB is a lot better now, but still not good enough. When I sneak up on the AI from the flank, 95% of the time they don't even begin to turn, no matter their stance. They just keep staring at their former target. I think you know what I mean. The decisive factor in between human and AI will almost always be the humanity or the artificiality of one side or the other, not minutiae like turn rate. This isn't a dog fight.

ANYWAYS. I have found an automated accuracy testing mission from A2 that would serve our purposes admirably if translated to Stratis. I need a talented scripter, and stat.

Spread the word

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?162651-Help-the-devs!-Public-service-mission-adaptation&p=2483359#post2483359

Seriously guys, we have to get this done now. Might make the difference between the game being well-balanced on release or in a later patch, and all the review scores that implies.

Edited August 29, 2013 by maturin

[ericfr 0]

Ai get stuck after get out a vehicle, and i'm unable to fire until i'm hidden e.g. behind the car.

Mission repro:http://www.multiupload.nl/7UM7247RX0

[metalcraze 290]

Yes, it will be lots and lots of fun. Because unless you are in a moral panic about the poor AI you might exploit (and like most moral panics, it acts like a very rare event will be of all-encompassing significance), it's just not going to be noticeable.

Right now I can run up to and dance on top of prone AI (and they are prone often which by itself often is a correct behavior) and the guy will never be able to kill me, he's not even able to turn around when you are right behind him, twitching to the left and right.

(Of course that's a non-issue for the player and will get you killed in 0.5 seconds)

AI also seems to have started lacking precision seriously. At times I can just stand 50m away from them and casually aim for the headshot with them spraying me in panic and not hitting (yet up close it's always a fast 1 shot kill). Thankfully there's no suppression fire, eh?

The AI in CQB is a lot better now, but still not good enough.

Halfway improvement is not really an improvement. If AI is not equal to a player for the sole reason of people at BIS not being able to agree on game mechanics (AI must be natural, but player must be supernatural) there's a problem.

Edited August 29, 2013 by metalcraze