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Bohemia, have you bothered at all with the AI in the last 3 months?

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About the only really good addition in ArmA 3 so far has been the animations and the fluidity of them. That alone though does not make a game. There are nice graphical additions and the PhysX is nice but I could do without both if it meant that core issue's would be fixed, one's that have persisted from ArmA and OFP.

I feel the same way, that they are getting kind of lazy in development. Coupled with the statement in the "Axed Feature's" thread that they don't want to do improvements and or fixes that the modding community could do and they would rather leave it up to them, it just kind of seems like they want to create a sandbox environment and leave the content heavy lifting to the community. I can understand for missions and smaller mods like weapon addons and sounds mods and such, but when you start leaning towards mods to almost be a requirement for a fulfilling experience and also fix issue's within the game like the AI and such, I think you're leaning a bit too hard on modded content.

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Theres a weird engine bug that carries over even into VBS with this engine. Sometimes AI at point blank range just go schizo and refuse to attack. More noticeable in Arma than VBS but must be a shared bug from the old OFP days of lets fight field to field combat.

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Honestly, I feel like BIS has stretched itself too thin with DayZ and ArmA 3 being done at the same time. I feel like these shifts in the workforce have turned out to be more hindering than BIS expected, hence their inability to deliver on many of the "confirmed" features. All the same, I enjoy ArmA 3 right now and will in the future. As for AI, alot of stuff just requires REALLY fine tweaking of your .arma3profile file or script commands. Some summer reading - http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array

Lest we forget, some improvement is better than no improvement.

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they have the ability to super snipe you with a squirt from a gnat's adrenal gland, that's how accurate they are.

This is ridiculous. Imagine playing on a domination server...spawn...go to crate...select weaponry....wait for chopper...wait for chopper....jump on chopper...(hopefully...and I do mean hopefully) make it to the AO...jump off chopper...run 2kms to edge of AO (highlighted red on the map)....spot enemy AI about 400-500m away....'nah, they can't hit me from here'...BOOM -DEAD. Rinse and repeat. Usually the first part takes me a good 10 minutes just to GET to the AO only to die from expert sniping. If I'm feeling up to it, I'll do it all again...otherwise = disconnect.

Something has got to be done about this. I don't mind getting killed because I stupidly ran out in the open or came up against an enemy squad...but this is ridiculous.

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Theres a weird engine bug that carries over even into VBS with this engine. Sometimes AI at point blank range just go schizo and refuse to attack. More noticeable in Arma than VBS but must be a shared bug from the old OFP days of lets fight field to field combat.

There is one thing I noticed about AI. They added a "courage" parameter to each AI, but I don't think this one works as expected. If in real life people surrender, in game sometimes they just turn around and flee, easy to mistake this for a bad pathfinding or bad AI. Or they may refuse to attack, not sure it comes from this one. If they consider that the "group" is finished, instead of "side" and decide to flee, then there is a bug.

Solution? Either add "setFleeing 0" to each AI at the beginning of the mission or it should be fixed by game design. When the surrender is triggered they should knee without weapons, with hands behind their head.

Edited by afp

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This is ridiculous. Imagine playing on a domination server...spawn...go to crate...select weaponry....wait for chopper...wait for chopper....jump on chopper...(hopefully...and I do mean hopefully) make it to the AO...jump off chopper...run 2kms to edge of AO (highlighted red on the map)....spot enemy AI about 400-500m away....'nah, they can't hit me from here'...BOOM -DEAD. Rinse and repeat. Usually the first part takes me a good 10 minutes just to GET to the AO only to die from expert sniping. If I'm feeling up to it, I'll do it all again...otherwise = disconnect.

.... think you are playing the wrong game if this annoys you.

My simple rule for this; If you can do it to the AI (i.e. snipe them at 400m, which you can) then they are allowed to do it to you. It is after all a "military simulator".

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Gnat;2442278'].... think you are playing the wrong game if this annoys you.

My simple rule for this; If you can do it to the AI (i.e. snipe them at 400m' date=' which you can) then they are allowed to do it to you. It is after all a "military simulator".[/quote']

Really? You can shoot a ghillie 400m away with a reflex sight? Please, record how you do it and post it here....

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I think the thread title itself would be pretty much good enough to guarantee that no one from Bohemia will be reading this. At least, I wouldn't bother if I was them.
Admittedly this is what I think of just about any of the complaint threads with such titles... I don't even blame/mind Bohemia Interactive devs for just skipping such threads upon seeing the titles.
There is one thing I noticed about AI. They added a "courage" parameter to each AI, but I don't think this one works as expected. If in real life people surrender, in game sometimes they just turn around and flee, easy to mistake this for a bad pathfinding or bad AI. Or they may refuse to attack, not sure it comes from this one. If they consider that the "group" is finished, instead of "side" and decide to flee, then there is a bug.

Solution? Either add "setFleeing 0" to each AI at the beginning of the mission or it should be fixed by game design. When the surrender is triggered they should knee without weapons, with hands behind their head.

This on the other hand is pertinent info, is there a Feedback Tracker ticket for this?

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Really? You can shoot a ghillie 400m away with a reflex sight? Please, record how you do it and post it here....

AI can't shoot a ghillie 400m away with a reflex sight either. They won't even try.

If there is machine gunner in the group, he will at least try, usually with no luck, though. Killing a sniper with a machine gun is possible for player too, with some luck.

If even one of the group has a scope, he should be the first target, because He is the only one who could actually hit you. Hitting sniper with a scoped rifle is possible for you too.

Is there a problem really?

And please, ..do not exaggerate.

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Bigpickle, I would definitely suggest using the TroopMonA3 mod/tool next time you try to take on the AI, it might well show what's going on/give us a better look at what you're experiencing.

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Nope they haven't done shit, but drink beer on the live stream, go too vegas and spend the war chest.. Soooo I lean towards what we got, is what we're getting. They barely can survive as it is. They released the half assed alpha to gen up funds. Now those are gone... How will they pay their people, let alone finish this. They stated Altis was coming in the beta, annnnd look no Altis... Usual BI shit... So look for 2018 or so to get this in a playable state.

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I've noticed ai has many bugs in the current stable, for instance a group of ai in formation, moving to a waypoint there is always this one studdering laggy soldier in the group, and sometimes one or 2 will even disappear for good without a trace! Also yesterday i seen a car drive into a tree fairly slowly, didnt take much damage, but he stayed there ignoring his move waypoint for over 5 minutes.

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Nope they haven't done shit, but drink beer on the live stream, go too vegas and spend the war chest

They must have had about a bottle of beer each during the live stream (and it was cheap Czech beer!). Do you know why they went to Vegas? It was to generate interest in the game with all the professional gaming reviewers / companies / PR gurus out there. That's how the gaming industry works from a promotional point of view.

Lets break that down shall we?

Nope they haven't done shit, but drink beer on the live stream, go too vegas and spend the war chest

From what I can remember they only had about 1 bottle of beer each (and it was cheap Czech beer at that!). Do you know why they went to Vegas and E3? Let me quote direct from the E3 website:

E3 is the world's premier trade show for computer and video games and related products. The show is owned by the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), the U.S. association dedicated to serving the business and public affairs needs of the companies, publishing interactive games for video game consoles, handheld devices, personal computers, and the Internet.

So the reason they went to E3 was to showcase the game and get the gaming industry interested in A3. Also give the game as much publicity as possible.

.. Soooo I lean towards what we got, is what we're getting. They barely can survive as it is. They released the half assed alpha to gen up funds. Now those are gone... [/Quote]

How many times do people have to say this. The MAJORITY of the game isn't on the Beta, it is just a showcase to show us what the game is like to help the development of the game. And then you say that they released the Alpha to create funds? Mate, seriously? The Alpha cost £19.99 and the Beta costs £29.99. And I need to know, how do you know that those "funds" are gone?

How will they pay their people, let alone finish this. They stated Altis was coming in the beta, annnnd look no Altis... Usual BI shit... So look for 2018 or so to get this in a playable state.

They'll pay their people as they always have. Do you mean that they have run out of funds? Still need you to prove that to me buddy! They did not state that Altis was coming in the Beta, what they actually said was that Altis "may" be on the Dev branch near to the release date. Oh and the last thing, the game is in a playable state...

Have a good day.

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Nope they haven't done shit, but drink beer on the live stream, go too vegas and spend the war chest.. Soooo I lean towards what we got, is what we're getting. They barely can survive as it is. They released the half assed alpha to gen up funds. Now those are gone... How will they pay their people, let alone finish this. They stated Altis was coming in the beta, annnnd look no Altis... Usual BI shit... So look for 2018 or so to get this in a playable state.

Well, you're entitled to your own view, but I think that expressing yourself in this way will render any of your opinions far, far less likely to be seriously considered. Comments like this are entirely unhelpful. They contribute nothing and seem to be built on a range of unfounded half-thoughts and assertions.

Anyway, for us, the Alpha has been a good platform to build on. It's no secret that the project experienced it's share of ups and downs, but the general feedback from the forums and response from the media has been that people were actually surprised with the stability and performance of the Alpha - perhaps more stable than the Arma 2 full retail launch :) - and we've made some modest progress since that point.

Anyway, to the point of AI - and yes, we normally would avoid threads with aggressive titles, as they're not usually filled with useful feedback or productive discussion - we've made small improvements where we can. It's true that - at the beginning of the project - certain things were not exactly prioritised as perhaps they 'should be' - mistakes have certainly been made - but we've worked hard to turn that around and refocus the development. I've said before that the AI will not receive a 'major' overhaul, which (whether I like it or not) is beyond our current scope.

However, that's not to say that progress on the AI is a write-off. We've recently added a new programmer, and he's been looking into and familiarising himself with certain aspects of the AI. I've talked to him and he agreed to make some notes on the progress he's made so far (currently related to AI targeting, both long distance and CQB), and he will appreciate feedback on the changes he's making to help validate that it's not negatively affecting other things.

I think communicating and interacting with the community can help us make a better game, and I've encouraged the team to be more vocal in their interactions. It's a slow process as many in the team are new to this sort of development and, as English isn't usually their first language, sometimes people can find it difficult to express things correctly (and, seeing how certain developer comments were recently twisted into all sorts of shapes, it's little wonder some may be hesitant :cool:). It should be noted, too, that hyperbole and vitriol do little to encourage meaningful dialogue!

Best,

RiE

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+1 RoyaltyinExile

Good to hear more resource is being placed on the AI. It is the most likely show stopper for the game for many people and personally my only issue with the gaem. Out of interest, is there any documentation on how AI is programmed in the Arma series? Just wondering if it's old school decision tree sort of stuff and if so, is there any possibility for a neural network implementation. I can't help wondering if a NN implementation which uses real player learning might not be the best solution.

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The streams were done during the weekend. I don't think it's anyone's business what BI does during their weekends.

It's disappointing to see so much anger and bitterness. Like everyone i have stuff i'd like to see being done differently. I open a feedback tracker when it's really important for me.

The game is in beta and i hope it will remain so until the game is ready for launch. No rush. I hope BI takes the time to do things the way they think it should be done and not rush to launch the game.

I also hope that they will support the game for as long as they did with Arma 2. :)

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Nope they haven't done shit, but drink beer on the live stream, go too vegas and spend the war chest.. Soooo I lean towards what we got, is what we're getting. They barely can survive as it is. They released the half assed alpha to gen up funds. Now those are gone... How will they pay their people, let alone finish this. They stated Altis was coming in the beta, annnnd look no Altis... Usual BI shit... So look for 2018 or so to get this in a playable state.

Nothing to see here. Obvious troll is obvious.

@RiE & BIS DEVs - keep plugging away guys - you will never please everyone. Myself, I believe that pathfinding issues are the most problematic of all. Those complaining about uber-precise AI need to learn to get their heads down!

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It should be noted, too, that hyperbole and vitriol do little to encourage meaningful dialogue!

A lot of us are avoiding those topics for the exact same reason, but it's also true that very little has been said about AI by the dev team, while it's obviously a major subject for a lot of us.

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I've said before that the AI will not receive a 'major' overhaul

in my opinion that isn't even what the AI needs. i think the a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that the AI has a lot of potential and is overall very good but has some old problems that can only be described as bugs. i think that some detail tweaks can make a huge difference. to me it seems most of the time as if some things are just not working as intended. there are always a few AIs that act very well but then there are also those guys who have total break downs.

on the other hand i have to say that, if the ability to use houses, in a game environment that has almost all houses enterable, is considered a major overhaul, i would be really disappointed to not see that feature. i understand the hesitation to include that as a major part since it kind of makes the simplified "pathfinding" method for indoors more obvious, but what most people have been asking for is very basic (they use mods as examples). just make them go after targets that are inside buildings or search buildings near a possible target(move from "buildingpos min" to "buildingpos max").

for me that is mainly a player centric thing. i don't need AIs fighting eachother from house to house. but the fact that, if i engage them from a house, they will try to find weird angles from outside to shoot me instead of sending someone in, is really annoying.

i think i might have noticed some improvements in close range engagements last time i played. i had AI sidestepping around corners while leaning and shooting to keep me in their sights and their reactions seemed improved. the actual turning speed still seems to be weird though, if you get really close. and that is again not all the time but most of the time.

but i'm glad that someone is appointed to just the AI.

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Arma is a great game and BI seem like a decent enough bunch but, many of the reviews of arma 3 and OA have said something along the lines of BI's comfortability with releasing unfinished games. That's not a good thing. The epicness of the community probably makes that more palatable, but still.

I don't understand why the emphasis is always on adding extra content and and stuff like water interactivity when there are so many issues with the engine.

I would have though it would have been better release a 64 bit efficient multicore, mostly bug-free engine, with some revamped OA content, and add the new content in dlc. Rather than a whole bunch of extra content to a creaking engine.

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on the other hand i have to say that, if the ability to use houses, in a game environment that has almost all houses enterable, is considered a major overhaul, i would be really disappointed to not see that feature. i understand the hesitation to include that as a major part since it kind of makes the simplified "pathfinding" method for indoors more obvious, but what most people have been asking for is very basic (they use mods as examples). just make them go after targets that are inside buildings or search buildings near a possible target(move from "buildingpos min" to "buildingpos max").

for me that is mainly a player centric thing. i don't need AIs fighting eachother from house to house. but the fact that, if i engage them from a house, they will try to find weird angles from outside to shoot me instead of sending someone in, is really annoying.

Since I almost exclusively play urban/CQB type battles, one thing I've often caught the AI cheating is that if you sneak upon them in a room and they are aware of targets, you'll see them targeting thru walls which not only looks "gamey", but leaves them exposed to the obvious travelways and lanes of fire. And speaking of the strange turnspeed (which looks like a store mannequin rotating on metal pole), can't they quickly transition to more of a crouch and sidestep to return fire? One almost surefire way of beating AI indoors is to sidestep while firing and it would make the AI appear more like it was actually concerned with self preservation.

Next would be excessive movement and imminent threat. Don't allow your AI to simply wander out of decent cover, it's like they have ADD and want to rack up kill streak, unless under direct fire from another angle (that's imminent), allow them to stay and fight it out. Lastly on imminent threat, it makes the AI appear dumb when they disregard personal safety and ignore an enemy in immediate vicinity in favor of a longer range target. Possibly due to their squad leader not taking the individual soldiers need as priority -that's why I tend to use individual soldiers as opposed to groups to fight against.

We've recently added a new programmer

Yay! You finally found solus! :p

J/K. I hope you guys can have a little more open dialogue with us concerning AI because it tends to be the least responded to area by the Devs despite the countless threads/discussions etc... Its a little disconcerting that you've chosen to respond to the aggressive one despite years of polite ones which go ignored. Very glad you hired new gun to tackle (as well as Task Force Team Balance) but please keep us involved by highlighting AI changes and open discourse on feedback.

Thanks :)

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i think i might have noticed some improvements in close range engagements last time i played. i had AI sidestepping around corners while leaning and shooting to keep me in their sights and their reactions seemed improved. the actual turning speed still seems to be weird though, if you get really close. and that is again not all the time but most of the time.

Eh no it's the same.

Turning speed limit is also unchanged. It's the issue that is present not only when they shoot you - it also seems to be affecting their movement badly.

Like when they create an approach path to the enemy it always looks like "move to a next waypoint on it... stop there... sloooowly turn... move to the next one". It makes them extremely easy targets.

Also when they are following you and you change direction instead of changing the direction immediately due to turn speed limit they seem to take a big half-circle turn which makes them fall behind

Turn speed limit should be gone since the human player doesn't have one. Make AI turn just as fast, just make them less of snipers.

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Now, I have not played any über-complex scenarios recently, but the tests I have run using the editor shows some nice AI behaviour. Since it has been said that the AI improves with the MIPS on the system, I wondered if it could be because I have a decent CPU and perhaps not all reports on AI stem from powerful machines?

For instance, I trained some sniping with the new classes, so placed an OPFOR infantry group about 800m away and started taking them down. They all went prone when my first round hit the ground next to one of them, and the only one to take a shot at me was the AT soldier, who is the only man in the group who has any weapon+optics to deal some damage at the distance I was at. And once I took down the squad leader, they scattered - until then they had been staying together as a group all prone.

This is by no means a conclusive example, but I would say that I experience not-so-bad AI performance on my desktop (i7 3770K) compared to my travel laptop where identical missions can play out a bit differently.

An input from me to the new AI-developer would be: When testing AI behaviour, test on two different systems, one a powerful PC and one a medium powered PC. Good luck :)

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