Ww2

[DarkLight 0]

I'm looking for short movies (well actually, not movies, more like documentaries) about the snipers during WW2, as i said, i'm talking about documentaries, so no Enemy At The Gates bs plz.

I don't know much about the snipers from the ww's so i'm not sure what documentaries about them are reliable (sp?).

If you have any interesting documentaries about snipers during WW2 please feel free to post a link to them.

Thanks a lot!!!

[ralphwiggum 6]

if you are into person-by-person basis, look for a sniper from Finland(over 400 confirmed kills)..sorry..i'm not sure about his name or nationality, but I do know that he was wounded by a shell explosion a few days b4 his counrty signed treaty with Russia.

[zverushka 0]

Simo Hayha-500 kills

bloody murderer

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ Aug. 03 2002,22:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Simo Hayha-500 kills

bloody murderer<span id='postcolor'>

War IS murder you dumbass. But I suppose you see Vassili Zaitsev as a hero right?

[Paratrooper 0]

The Germans did not train snipers during WWII.

[ArchangelSKT 0]

yeah sure they didn`t

[zverushka 0]

Tex-- I'm sorry you ddin't see it that way but the "bloody murderer" comment was a COMPLIMENT

[Tex -USMC- 0]

I stand corrected

[DarkLight 0]

Ok perhaps german snipers weren't trained but there should be some documentaries about snipers out there. I've been looking for a while now and i still can't find a thing, can somebody (who has some experience with finding stuff on the net) help me with this plzzzz.

btw, almost every "hero" has killed someone if you ask me...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 03 2002,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Germans did not train snipers during WWII.<span id='postcolor'>

Ding Dong! Finally someone who knows what he is talking about! I am pretty much sure that you are absolutely right! Maybe in the confusion of the last years (1944) they tried to establish such a unit but in general no, that did not exist. However that does not exclude that the army didnt have excellent precision rifles and that there were good sharp-shooters out there.

And this story of Erwin Koenig (400 kills) against Zaitsev (220 kills but high graded only)  is a tale as well. In the film "enemy at the gates" you see Zaitsev killing a so called Heinz Thorwald, the head of the German sniper school. So silly, there is no proof for such a german soldier.  

However there are films that claim the opposite. IF you are really looking for such a film go here, but I dont really trust their sources.  German snipers of WWII

....  .... Content removed, my mistake

Anyway, what the germans did have were para-snipers. They could lift off from a Zeppelin and shoot every target from the air with their sniper rifle. That is a fact believe me! See image below

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Sorry, just changed my mind anyway, but you were quicker! I thought a warning of what is to be seen on the picture would be enough, but you are probably correct, it isnt. Wont happen again!

[scout 0]

Albert.

you are wrong about the Koneig and Zaitzev dual.

it did happen there is some reference to some books about the incident

[Satchel 0]

Actually there had been German Sniper Training Schools and courses; for the Wehrmacht the Infanterieschule (Doeberitz), Scharfschützen-Ausbildungs-Kompanie II of the Wehrkreis II (Groß Born) and other units which conducted such training.

The necessity for trained and equipped snipers became obvious to the German Command shortly after beginning of the 2nd WW. After the start of the Barbarossa campaign, and first encounters with well trained, well equipped Russian snipers, everything that had been missed in regards to sniper training and outfitting in the former years had to be catched up for.  The actual trained sniper employment took place independently on battalion level, where snipers would be combined in platoons, and could be used in main focus whereever they were needed. On Combat Company level additonally so called "Zielfernrohrschuetzen" were used, which is basically an infantryman without particular sniper training, but an optic-aided weapon for precision shooting he is equipped with.

Museum pic: German Sniper on a pole, such things you don´t learn as a normal infantryman.

[Rhubarbman 0]

Satchel when u gonna release that Apache

Anyway anyone know where i can find some info on German Paratroops?

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rhubarbman @ Aug. 04 2002,02:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Satchel when u gonna release that Apache  

Anyway anyone know where i can find some info on German Paratroops?<span id='postcolor'>

Stick to the topic mate

[scout 0]

im feeling Generous today

but you really should look up the net.

a simple search in google will get you these results.

have a nice day mate

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Grrrr! I know that there is supposingly lots of information on snipers and so called sniper schools. But I watched a long documentory about the sillyness of "enemies at the gates" and that a european stage director should be ashamed of having made such a dump film. And there was a german professor who stated that at that time there were no such units as trained snipers on the german side. If you think about it once again you will logically come to the conclusion that a sniper is no support for a "Blitzkrieg" strategy but for a WWI "Stellungskrieg", a rigid war! And this is what Hitler wanted to prevent at any cost. So why should there have been a sniper school before 1944?

Scout, this is not a reference but a forum contribution and there is as much sceptical opinions as there are believers.  

There is no such thing as a relying source of information on Zaitsev vs Koenig. Or maybe there is but it is hiding on in a very dark corner of this forum!

[Blaegis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ Aug. 04 2002,10:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scout, this is not a reference but a forum contribution and there is as much sceptical opinions as there are believers.  

There is no such thing as a relying source of information on Zaitsev vs Koenig. Or maybe there is but it is hiding on in a very dark corner of this forum!  <span id='postcolor'>

When in doubt, stick to the original sources. The war diary of the Soviet 62nd army (Zaitsev served in the 284th infantry division of the 62nd) covers the "sniperism" movement and the exploits of the best snipers in Stalingrad in considerable detail, HOWEVER there's no mention whatsoever of the sniper-duel. Most likely the story surfaced after the war as a propaganda tool. I'm not saying this to diminish Zaitsev's considerable accomplishments, rather to set the record straight (especially after Enemy at the Gates BS ).

[DarkLight 0]

Albert Schweizer, first of all, thanks for the information you posted on page 1, sad enough i'll have to buy the video if i want to see it. And i don't feel like spending money

Perhaps anybody knows any free documentaries on the net that i can watch?

2nd, the guy that was flying through the air, is that really true, it looks pretty damn silly to me

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Also, lets not forget that Zaitsev was amongst the first real snipers of the sowjet army! Stalingrad was the first real target where the german army was facing strong opponents and a command: "hold at any cost" and therefore forced into house to house combat, a perfect scenario for potential sniper activities. But before Stalin sent the fresh ands well equipped supplies from the East of the USSR e.g. such units as snipers were simply overrun by Blitzkrieg machinery. So no reason to supply counter-units against sharpshooters to the front.

And it was the first time where the germans were in a defensive position, so defensive that they had to reemploy their flanks with italian and romanian division (of course this is where the flanks later on broke during operation Uranus ). Once the germans were trapped inside Stalingrad it was all over. Out of 200'000 soldiers 97000 were taken prisoner but only 5000 returned to germany a few years later ( a relative of mine was one of them )

(Offtopic: do you know the battle of Kursk; 6000 tanks against each other, largest tank battle ever in history)

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

on that picture that was Lilienthal, one of the first morons to try to fly like a bird!   )

I had other pictures posted before, there was a sequence of a US-machine gunner being hit by a sharp-shooter straight into the head. But that was silly of course and I was risking getting banned (for a good reason) so I posted a yoke instead!

But if you want to know about the real german snipers, then I have to tell you about the horse-sharp-shooter division. They were trained by horse specialised circus-clowns as well a sniper schools!

[DarkLight 0]

Hmmm, feel free to send that to me by email

It might be disgusting but that's the way war is.

I'm still searching for good documentaries but still no luck.

*sigh*

[Blaegis 0]

sniper links

-> Here's a page with a lot of links related to snipers, sniper rifles and history of sniperism.

P.S. Albert, I'm a Russian interested in military history, OF COURSE I know about Operation Zitadelle...