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Discussion on "Axed" Features

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Damage limitation..

Fine specimen devs..;)

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If you think about it, After release we're still going to get updates and maybe the updates will reintroduce features the were removed. At the moment the BIS Devs, Programmers, Modelers must be under a lot of stress right now... I mean does it really matter that much if something that is honestly unneeded is removed?

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I think the brouhaha that led to this thread stems from the definition of "unneeded" being subjective...

EDIT: \/\/ I called it! \/\/ :lol: Then again, all I remember being promised on the 3D editor in the first place was essentially 'making it official', then the rolling back was to 'no more than what Arma 2 had'.

Edited by Chortles

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these who keep mentioning the 3D editor,

this unfortunately comes from over enthuiastic 1-2 commentaries but it nevers was promised as 'set in stone' (at max. more of fixed up old one 3D scripted editor)

I guess this never happened then?

If you think about it, After release we're still going to get updates and maybe the updates will reintroduce features the were removed.

Oh really? BIS doesn't even patch the broken and unfinished ACR DLC for ten months now. And they also promised "MP patch for Carrier Command post release" before the game was out.

Hey BIS also promised a lot of things before we paid money for ArmA3 too - and instead ArmA3 gets worse and worse with each passing month. So I can't share your optimism.

If I'm reading Pettka's comments correctly, it's also happening with the first aid module that was "axed" from Arma 2.

First of all Jay Crowe said there are no plans to have anything but the current awful excuse for a medic system.

Second - if we will go by this logic that will mean that the current dumbed down medic system with insta health regen medkits is here to stay since it's really poorly implemented but BIS isn't cutting it out.

And people talk about axed 'promised' features but what about all the dumbing down that keeps happening to ArmA3 with each passing month through axing of what was already there?

- Aforementioned dumbed down medic system where you can get shot in the leg 3 times, hit MMB, wait 3 seconds and keep on running like nothing ever happened - while First Aid Module is gone

- Balancing that becomes worse with each new update turning ArmA3 further into generic mirrored pvp shooter. Both sides wielding 6.5 mm caseless weapons, cars of both sides having exactly the same weapons, launchers having exactly the same stats, the existence of ridiculously wrong MX SW, commander hatch welded shut on Patria with commander optics gone (2 crew members on Marid after all), soldiers having the same mirrored loadouts etc.

- Fatigue effects are completely gone because casual players whined

- Pockets are bottomless, you can carry up to 200 kg and while casual players get fatigue effects removed - all the other camp gets is "we are probably going to look into it but I can't promise anything". Oh boy.

- Recoil is almost completely gone because casual players whined. .50 cal sniper rifle having a recoil of a pistol is just ridiculous.

- Weapon collision is gone (instead of implementing autolowering which is easily possible in the engine as proved by norrin) making all weapons but assault rifles absolutely pointless. What's the point in SMG? What's the point in carbines? Recoil is non existent for assault rifles now and they also have longer range while suffering no penalties in CQB. .50 cal sniper rifles are now like a ball CQB shotgun except the one that kills several people in a row

- Blinding sun is gone (and I don't mean ArmA2 HDR). Instead of sun meaning something it's just a small harmless sprite that does nothing. Trying to manouver around the sun in the morning or evening was another gameplay element but I guess it also caused "headaches" for casual players.

- You can run up and down steep hills in full gear, inertia is gone, you can turn around just as fast with a .50 cal sniper rifle as with a pistol - again making pistols, SMGs, carbines pointless. Can even drop on your belly and rotate around like a propeller. Not even BF3 allows that.

Yes everything is fine with ArmA3, move along citizen, nothing to see here.

Edited by metalcraze

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I agree with metalcraze about some points here.

I dunno why, but I'm a little bit disappointed by ArmA 3.

There is something missing, but cant say what it is.

I hope I'm wrong, but I got kinda bad feeling about it, I think I wont enjoy it as I enjoyed ArmA 2 CO.

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Oh gents, really? Absolutely ridiculous. Moan, Moan, bloody moan. Lets wait until the game is on the shelves shall we? Things get axed, things get changed, things get added.

---------- Post added at 01:36 ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 ----------

Oh and before you start slating me, I'll be moaning if the game doesn't deliver!

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I dont moan, I just say I have a bad feeling.

What I wish is a game like OFP with cool new features (like diving) but realistic/sim core.

I did enjoy ArmA 2 CO, especially thanks to the editor, which I used to create SP missions and campaigns like I wanted.

I also enjoyed the units/vehicles/weapons content.

However, I think the SP official content in A2CO was really a big fail - the only mission I liked was the first one in Harvest Red, which really looked like SF operation.

After it, it was screwed up.

(I also liked 2 or 3 SP missions like Mountain Hike and Laser Show).

ATM, we dont have ant intel about the SP content of ArmA 3.

In addition, I'm not really fan of the futuristic content.

Last thing, as metalcraze said, is That I have the feeling that few things changed because of new ArmA players who cried because the game was too hard for them.

And very last thing that disappoints me is the fact that some things wont be added in vanilla A3 whereas these things ARE possible in ArmA 2 like fastrope or shooting from vehicles (ex: shoot from MH-6)

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And very last thing that disappoints me is the fact that some things wont be added in vanilla A3 whereas these things ARE possible in ArmA 2 like fastrope or shooting from vehicles (ex: shoot from MH-6)
Those were both by scripting or modding, neither of which was possible in vanilla Arma 2, so vanilla Arma 3 is neither better nor worse with these.

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@metalcraze if you read my later answers you would get answer on the earlier part you quote... :rolleyes:

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Fact is when a company grows and 'opens' in new areas (*more and frequent other titles) he gives less-and-less attention over time about

a 'specific' product. ( a product they could -so far-constantly support in lack of *other projects)

(no offense intended)

Although i won't get comfortable until i start seeing "things happening"..i 'll try to trust BI..for now.

There are lots of people here (including me..) that see ARMA as religion.

I hope BI won't let me down..

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I guess this never happened then?

(...)

While I agree in some point, it's not that we will be playing too much of A3 vanilla right? If they can provide a good base to mods mod, whatever.

But it's kind of sad to see the game ,slowly, going to the "wrong" side of the force. OFP\ARMA created a name and separated itself from the others for being (bugged and unoptimized :rolleyes:) somewhat hardcore, it should bold those characteristics and not try to blend in.

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BI is more than happy to bold Arma's characteristics and not try to blend in... as to those characteristics though, you can go see pettka's post in my sig with regards to "sides of the force"...

Edited by Chortles

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I guess this never happened then?

.

"there will be a 3d editor which will certainly be appreciated by our community.." -that sounds pretty close to a promise as any other feature discussed at that event -of course, there was no pinky swear :p

That's really a shame - the 3d editor as we can access it now feels pretty hackeyed and pretty much not worth the trouble. I do use it in another game which shall not be mentioned here, to basically decorate whole cities and it's a joy to work with while doing this in an Arma is an absolute nightmare requiring endless mission restarts just to see if you placed a damn object 1cm to far right/left/up/down ad infinitum. If they could only make it so the current iteration would at least save into standard mission.sqm...

Pretty much agree on all metalcraze points and find the lack of wounding pretty disappointing -no more wounded crawling soldiers?! IN Arma!!?! :(

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"there will be a 3d editor which will certainly be appreciated by our community.." -that sounds pretty close to a promise as any other feature discussed at that event -of course, there was no pinky swear :p

That's really a shame - the 3d editor as we can access it now feels pretty hackeyed and pretty much not worth the trouble. I do use it in another game which shall not be mentioned here, to basically decorate whole cities and it's a joy to work with while doing this in an Arma is an absolute nightmare requiring endless mission restarts just to see if you placed a damn object 1cm to far right/left/up/down ad infinitum. If they could only make it so the current iteration would at least save into standard mission.sqm...

Pretty much agree on all metalcraze points and find the lack of wounding pretty disappointing -no more wounded crawling soldiers?! IN Arma!!?! :(

It would be nice if the unit would limp instead of walking perfectly fine.

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"there will be a 3d editor which will certainly be appreciated by our community.." -that sounds pretty close to a promise as any other feature discussed at that event -of course, there was no pinky swear :p
It was subsequently rolled back by the previous project lead to "no better than Arma 2" (as you said "pretty hackeyed and pretty much not worth the trouble"; DnA has seemingly chosen to not address it at all. As for your disappointment though:
Just to ensure You, You are reading things right. Some changes may be in progress, some may be added even later, but we don't like to promise anything as it could backlash in some extreme manner :icon_twisted:
As to the broader question, I regret the impression that somewhat enthusiastically 'announced' (and, indeed, potentially great) features have been 'axed'. For me, one must have started the implementation first to cut anything and - perhaps with the exception of the health system, which in the past I've publically acknowledged is an area the team wanted to overhaul - I think it's unfortunate that a number of the 'missing' features listed here were ever 'promised' at all.
Perhaps BI has learned their own lesson from 2011. ;)

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It would be nice if the unit would limp instead of walking perfectly fine.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that old school wounding is gone? Been telling myself that this is still early Beta and they haven't gotten to it yet so wasn't worried at all - god please don't let this be so!

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According to pettka back on page 5 on July 10th, with "player setDamage 0.9" in both vanilla OA and vanilla A3:

I beg to differ, sir, I have just ran genuine OA without any mods to give it a try with "player setdamage 0.9";

OA: Increased weapon sway, running and sprinting is still possible, any further damage means I'm dead with one of pre-made death poses (no unconscious)

A3: Increased cursor size, drastically decreased movement speed, no running possible, any further damage means ragdoll

"they haven't gotten around to it yet" is possible though.

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@metalcraze if you read my later answers you would get answer on the earlier part you quote... :rolleyes:

Well yeah. And at least with 3D editor team has admitted that it's not happening.

But it would've been a decent thing if the team also said that f.e. advanced medic system and encumbrance aren't happening before march 5th and not, you know, only now.

Me and, I'm sure, many other people were thinking that features are missing because they are WIP (as the team was completely silent) and only now it comes to light that features are simply gone.

While I agree in some point, it's not that we will be playing too much of A3 vanilla right? If they can provide a good base to mods mod, whatever.

The fact alone that we will have to rely on mods to un-ruin the game is already bad. And even then we don't know what mods can fix and what they can't.

A mod is a bandaid. It can change only what can be changed. Hardcoded stuff can not.

But it's kind of sad to see the game ,slowly, going to the "wrong" side of the force. OFP\ARMA created a name and separated itself from the others for being (bugged and unoptimized :rolleyes:) somewhat hardcore, it should bold those characteristics and not try to blend in.

I guess just "money". Maybe after DayZ BIS wants to cater to a casual demographic that is incapable of accepting that shooters can be complex and challenging for brains not just for reflexes.

That's why they are removing stuff the moment some casual player cries that he has a "headache".

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Not the mention that the command interface is getting worst now.

I think the key words here is "frustration", there are many areas that is still not improved, many features not complete, and some even get ditched for god knows what reason.

And I don't think anyone here really want to runs a hundreds different heavily hacky scripted mod to try to improve the game if the things is good enough in genuine game.

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That's why they are removing stuff the moment some casual player cries that he has a "headache".

The fatigue blur had to go. It was absolutely unrealistic and annoying. I do agree, that weight should have an impact on fatigue, but adding PP effects in was a stupid move, and I'm glad you can disable it now. I don't think BIS is trying to cater to a "casual" demographic just because they are balancing the MP and not adding an advanced medical system.

Ok, I agree, the medical system could be a improved, but the balancing is fine. How do you expect people to play PVP if one side has much much better weapons than the other? I understand it's realistic, but then both sides should have some sort of advantage over the other.

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The fatigue blur had to go. It was absolutely unrealistic and annoying. I do agree, that weight should have an impact on fatigue, but adding PP effects in was a stupid move, and I'm glad you can disable it now.
Let me add that way more people spoke out on these very forums against the fatigue blur than for it, and DarkDruid said that yeah, the devs were noticing that.

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Let me add that way more people spoke out on these very forums against the fatigue blur than for it, and DarkDruid said that yeah, the devs were noticing that.

EDIT: nevermind, missread...

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How do you expect people to play PVP if one side has much much better weapons than the other?

How people always played PvP in OFP, ArmA1 and ArmA2?

How people play asymmetric PvP games? Like L4D?

I understand it's realistic, but then both sides should have some sort of advantage over the other.

Except there's none in ArmA3. Almost everything is mirrored.

I don't think BIS is trying to cater to a "casual" demographic just because they are balancing the MP and not adding an advanced medical system.

Not only they don't add advanced medical system they dumbed down the default one. I guess you've missed that short list of dumbing downs.

The fatigue blur had to go. It was absolutely unrealistic and annoying

And carrying 200 kgs is realistic? And running forever is realistic? But the moment those are under attack you & co jump in and start protesting about how "it's a game".

And yeah - instead of not overloading yourself with a ton of stuff or taking a break after prolonged running the cries were to cut out the last effect of fatigue. Because yes - casual demographics cannot deal with challenges or different genres of shooters. Why?

Because same goes for recoil. ZOMG recoil to sky! Baaaw. Result: BIS all but eliminated it so casual players could spam with sniper rifles without putting any effort.

Same goes for the sun. ZOMG it's annoying! Baaaw. Well of course it is. That's why you either don't attack against it or attack but at your own disadvantage.

Or weapon collision. ZOMG I can't move through houses with a meter long MG! Baaaw. BIS cut that out too, now you can waltz around houses with GM6 Lynx using it as a shotgun.

How's that not catering to a casual demographic?

Edited by metalcraze

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It's just making shit less clunky. In real life you're trained to lower your big huge MG so you're not banging it into everything.

It's hardly casualising, the game is, at its core, still an arma game no matter how much people will disagree.

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