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Col. Kurtz

Leaders

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Favourite leader:

He just missed the 20th century, he was killed in battle in 1895, but I'd have to say José Martí, a leader of the Cuban war of independence against Spain.

Least favourite:

God, in whatever form he/she has appeared since human existence. Look at how much misery religion has brought about. the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts, the mess in the Middle East today, Sept 11, Japan during WWII (The Emperor was God, remember?), all the priests who molested children, ect. Not to mention all the cults people are somehow duped into following.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Aug. 04 2002,02:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not to mention all the cults people are somehow duped into following.<span id='postcolor'>

eh hem...exception. BIS and OFP

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Aug. 03 2002,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">General Robert E. Lee. The man fought bravely for his country and led his man in to impossible odds. Lee cared for his country and his home land, Lincoln wanted power like the rest of the northern goverment at the time. Lee was fighting for American rights, Lee was fighting for what America was founded on.<span id='postcolor'>

You are completely misinformed. Lee was fighting because he was a soldier, and his homestate happened to fall on the Southern side.

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Not that i support Naziism or anything but I can really appreciate the way hitler could get millions of people to love him in such a short amount of time. I realize that it was wrong for extermanating the jewish people and I hope he is burning in hell for it. One leader I really hate is Stalin, I don't know much about him but for what reason was he killing his people?

I also like Presedent Roseavelt, somthing compeling about that guy, and how he was so strong even in poor health.

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I once read something, if there ever was a god, he left pretty soon after he created earth. And what are all those Britons employed doing? She hacked back welfare like there was no tommorow. Sure, you do get bludgers that just like to sit it out on the dole, but it dosnt pay good. Many that are on the dole(welfare) have valid reasons. Some may not be able to due to disabilities. What about single parents? Children need to have good care time, not just placed in front of a television until bed time. And look at America. Many of them never get a chance to get an education, so how are they supposed to get a job? But Im going off the topic. Keep your flamethrowers off people, and keep the leaders coming in. It is good to see a diverse range of leaders from many countries and causes. No flame, good game.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Least favourite:

God, in whatever form he/she has appeared since human existence. Look at how much misery religion has brought about. the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts, the mess in the Middle East today, Sept 11, Japan during WWII (The Emperor was God, remember?), all the priests who molested children, ect. Not to mention all the cults people are somehow duped into following. <span id='postcolor'>

You seem to be missing the point. Religion is a man made thing, God did not create Catholicism or Protestantism, people did. God did not make the Catholics and Protestants hate each other, people did. Religion is alot like politics, what you have are groups of people that beleive in a different system. When beliefs clash, people fight each other, wether it be for religious reasons or political ones. You can't blame God for the world's problems Tovarish, if people didn't have God as an excuse to do something bad, then they'd find something else.

As for my favorite leader of the 20th century....

William Lyon Mackenzie King: He led Canada before, during and after the 2nd World War and was instrumental in keeping the French and English people in Canada united. Even though he was a Liberal and helped turn the country into a welfare state, he still beleived that Canada should be a leader in the world stage, and not a follower. He was also one of the main supporters for the U.N.

I had to choose a Canadian guy. biggrin.gif

Tyler

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Never heard of him, but sounds like a great guy. Since Im a New Zealander, Ill pick a NZ leader as well. Joseph Savage. Despite the name, he was great. He came to power durring the great depression, and with his leadership, pulled NZ out of it. H eled NZ durring the first few years of WW2, but died of cancer in 1942. About a hundred thousand people(of a population of 1,000,000 at the time) came to his state funeral. People loved him so much, he was called the uncle(not Josef Stalin Uncle).

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Yes I know that Lee was fighting for hsi homestate, but that is how America was suppose to be. States have the most power, and when trouble comes they all band togather.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Least favourite:

God, in whatever form he/she has appeared since human existence. Look at how much misery religion has brought about. the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts, the mess in the Middle East today, Sept 11, Japan during WWII (The Emperor was God, remember?), all the priests who molested children, ect. Not to mention all the cults people are somehow duped into following.<span id='postcolor'>

God has done nothing wrong, but only good. HE has done so much, and He is the best Leader of all! I was wrong about Lee, Lee was good but God is great. I did,t think of God as a leader, but no I do. He will get you through anything, you may loose loved ones, but He will be with you. No body has done as mcuh as God, and I am talking about the one and only true God, the Christian God.

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I was about to close this thread because god got brought into a thread that he has absolutely no place in. It is, if I remember correctly, world leaders of the 20th/21st centuries.

This is a not so subtle warning: Back on topic, drop the talk about religion, or the thread gets closed.

And Duke of Ray, you really have no concept of when to drop it, do you? mad.gif

Tyler,

Not Diefenbaker? biggrin.gif

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wow.gif8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 03 2002,14wow.gif8)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But also Thatcher. You might like to sound clever slagging her off,<span id='postcolor'>

And how old were you during the time Thatcher was prime minister? Seems to me you're looking back with rose tinted glasses at history books, for the majority of people who lived through her "reign" it was a most unpleasant time.

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Martin Luther King-Great guy. But hes a civil leader, not a leader of a country. And I think Placebo is right. If any of yous had lived in a Gulag, I doubt you would even joke about him been a great leader.Too make it easier, new rules, its country leaders of all time. You can pick someone, if they really did live, from any time peroid.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 04 2002,05:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And what are all those Britons employed doing? She hacked back welfare like there was no tommorow. Sure, you do get bludgers that just like to sit it out on the dole, but it dosnt pay good. Many that are on the dole(welfare) have valid reasons. Some may not be able to due to disabilities. What about single parents? Children need to have good care time, not just placed in front of a television until bed time. And look at America. Many of them never get a chance to get an education, so how are they supposed to get a job? But Im going off the topic.<span id='postcolor'>

You don't seem to even know what Thatcher did, just that she was 'bad'.

Well the ecomomy of Britain today is her economy, it would'nt work with the burden of state industry and millitant trade unionism. There are less than 1 million un-employed now, the free economy works!

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Favorite:

Gorbatsjov: he tried too make communism better and it worked until the drunk jeltsin took over..

Funniest:

Jeltsin: have you seen him dance?? HAHAH biggrin.gifbiggrin.giftounge.gif

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Sometimes you have to have a rotten tooth pulled, it hurts but it is neccessary.

Do you really want the economy and system of 1979?! The Best thing for Britian is prosperity, that goes for rich and poor alike.

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Gorbachev was good. Pitty he failed. Maybe its time the Royal Family earned their pay and started ruling the country again! Stir up the people! And lets forget Maggy, we all love her sould, discussion on her finished. We shall not even go into Reagan. Remember, stay cool, dont flame any one, and I will start Leaders Mk. II-Which one sucked?(Mugabe anyone?). Ghandi was good.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Aug. 04 2002,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gorbachev was good. Pitty he failed. Maybe its time the Royal Family earned their pay and started ruling the country again! Stir up the people! And lets forget Maggy, we all love her sould, discussion on her finished. We shall not even go into Reagan. Remember, stay cool, dont flame any one, and I will start Leaders Mk. II-Which one sucked?(Mugabe anyone?). Ghandi was good.<span id='postcolor'>

Well the Reds killed every last one of the Romanovs, so no chance of bring them back. A woman surfaced about 30 years ago claiming to be Princess Anastasia, but she was a fraud.

Ghandi was a great man, he pretty much invented modern non-violent protest.

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My favorite leader of the 20th Century.....

Ronald Reagan. He really improved the economy, won the Cold War, and had the best personality of any president.

My thoughts on the dictators mentioned:

Stalin was awesome at industrialization. However, things would've gone a lot more smoothly if he hadn't killed so many people. It really ended up costing him in WWII. Hitler gets too much credit. A lot of people could've gotten control of Germany, they were a desperate people. Joseph Goebbels is the one who got people to love Hitler, he was a genius at propaganda. Himmler was the one who was really big on killing all the Jews, Hitler just went along with him. And militarily, Hitler was a blundering idiot. He should have left his army in the control of his generals.

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You cant include god in this because we can questions his very exsistant of wether he is real or not, so that doesnt count as a leader.

Im athiest, but lets not turn this into a "he created everything/no he didnt" thing.

My favourite leader would be churchill. He really helped the british people find the will to carry on. a blizted london, and still he kept the hope up of victory, which in return put spirit into the civilians. A key to victory. Things would be very different if everyone was demoralised.

Maggie thatcher i think was just a flame fest back in her days. I actually admire her (not in an attractive sence!!!wink.gif People slag her for the Falklands war, saying it was just a pointless excercise for her to show who was in charge. Well not quite in those words or reason but they still said it was her own private war that should have been uneccessary. However, on the benefitial side, it showed the world what british commandos were capable of, and it was a chance to give harriers some real combat experience. maggie had guts and she stood up for herself. Good on her.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Evolution @ Aug. 04 2002,22:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You cant include god in this because we can questions his very exsistant of wether he is real or not, so that doesnt count as a leader.<span id='postcolor'>

Sure you can, wether he/she/it/they exists or not, he/she/it/they are the "leader" of religious peoples souls. So I can count him as a leader smile.gif

BTW I'm sorry, I didn't want this to become a religion thread, I probably should have known better, but I was asked my opinion and gave it. So let's drop it, Discussing religion is pointless, no one never wins that argument smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Aug. 04 2002,23:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Evolution @ Aug. 04 2002,22:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You cant include god in this because we can questions his very exsistant of wether he is real or not, so that doesnt count as a leader.<span id='postcolor'>

Sure you can, wether he/she/it/they exists or not, he/she/it/they are the "leader" of religious peoples souls. So I can count him as a leader smile.gif

BTW I'm sorry, I didn't want this to become a religion thread, I probably should have known better, but I was asked my opinion and gave it. So let's drop it, Discussing religion is pointless, no one never wins that argument smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

'God' was not a 20th century leader of a country! Ipso facto.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 05 2002,00:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'God' was not a 20th century leader of a country! Ipso facto.<span id='postcolor'>

Vatican City. Country. God, leader. ipso facto smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Aug. 05 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Aug. 05 2002,00:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'God' was not a 20th century leader of a country! Ipso facto.<span id='postcolor'>

Vatican City. Country. God, leader. ipso facto smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

No, unless your calling the Pope god.

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