Blackfoot/Comanche Pilot Position Incorrect

[Warmoer 1]

I am really enjoying the Beta content, and started working through the helicopters tonight. The cancelled Comanche, or Blackfoot in ARMA 3 was a departure from the default helicopter gunship seating arrangement where the pilot would be located in the front, whereas the systems operator/gunner (or UAV/UCAV operator) would sit in the rear. This is the primary reason why the rear seat was not elevated as per say the Apache, and visibility is actually poor from the rear. Can the devs please move the pilot seat to the front, as it should be for this aircraft; it is very difficult flying approaches from the rear, unless landing spots are approached sideways.

Worth the fix, please!

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[byku 13]

Indeed that is true, it would be interesting to have such arrangement although a bit dangerous.

Edit.: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/comanche/ some interesting stuff

Still looking for the info :P, i know i've read it somewhere!

BTW.: from wiki:

AH-80 Blackfoot

In the game Tom Clancy's EndWar, the Blackfoot is a fast, highly maneuverable helicopter used by the elite American troops, the Joint Strike Force. It is armed with a 30 mm chain gun and Hydra 70 unguided rockets, which can be augmented by AGM-169 Joint Common Missiles . Developed from the cancelled RAH-66 Comanche, it can engage other helicopters in air-to-air combat, but is not very effective, and is extremely vulnerable to fighter aircraft.

Edit.: Can't find it except one post under youtube video of comanche :/

Edited June 26, 2013 by Byku

[Anachoretes 10]

btw

Navigation and communications

The helicopter had a global positioning system, a radar altimeter and an attitude heading reference system (AHRS) from Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton).

It was equipped with an identification friend or foe (IFF) interrogator and a dual jam resistant VHF-FM / UHF-AM Have Quick tactical communications system.

Can the devs please move the pilot seat to the front,

Can you give are source link with this information. All i know, that all places have identical controls.(what we can see in the game).

Edited June 26, 2013 by Anachoretes

[ovenmit 11]

You can still fly it from the front seat if you wish....

[Anachoretes 10]

No. In default, gunner must be on top. Its not usual for AH, but its give huge fov for main pilot. Lifetime depend on this - RAH is very sneaky and agile.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Anachoretes

[Scoggs 1]

Hmm didn't know that. Hope it gets implemented, I'm all for realism!

[Tonci87 163]

+1 from me, would make this thing more destinctive

[Rolling 1]

So that's why I was having trouble actually seeing as pilot...because the pilot IRL is supposed to be in front :O

[progamer 14]

Make a ticket so we can get this bug fixed then.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Make a ticket so we can get this bug fixed then.

This. We need to get this fixed. It was the absolute first thing I noticed when I hopped in to fly. I was like ehhh this doesn't seem right. So when I switched to the gunner seat and took controls to fly it felt amazing. 100% better.

[byku 13]

But still we need some source to back it up, i heard such a thing about comanche but can't find it anywhere on the net.

[f27sharps 1]

IRL, the crew of Comanche was organized in the following manner, the front seat was for the pilot, the second place is chief pilot mission (a Experienced pilot than the first), the two positions were equipped with Similarly, each pilot could use his position since all functions of the machine without problems including armaments.

For example the French helicopter Tiger has an equivalent system.

[Tyl3r99 41]

make a ticket and then post link and we will vote :)

[progamer 14]

Heres the ticket for the fix: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10403

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

But still we need some source to back it up, i heard such a thing about comanche but can't find it anywhere on the net.

Yea, but even just getting into the Comanche in game, the pilots view is pretty obstructed and the gunner has a surprisingly good view without using his gun.

[Tyl3r99 41]

upvoted

[progamer 14]

It seems the comanche is also missing its ability to fly sideways.

The video also explains the comanche's quick lock on weapons and fire and forget weapons.

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Heres a ticket to fix the inability to turn sideways while at speed and maintain that sideways flight: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10404

[Sabot And Heat 10]

"It seems the Comanche is also missing its ability to fly sideways."

I'm going to have to check this out. It doesn't seem like this would be difficult unless you're using keyboard keys for the tail rotor controls. But, with an axis input for the tail rotor...this should be definitely possible. Interesting.

[yasotay 197]

What sort of verification is needed for this? Having some experiance with the RAH program I will say that the premise is correct. Front seat was the pilot-in-command station, however both were fully capable.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

What sort of verification is needed for this? Having some experiance with the RAH program I will say that the premise is correct. Front seat was the pilot-in-command station, however both were fully capable.

Well that confirms it doesn't it? Not to mention it just feels wrong flying from the back seat.

[max power 21]

It doesn't really. Reference is always better than hearsay. Changing data like this is not something BI does very often so if you want to make a convincing case, I would provide as much information as possible.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Max Power

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Assessment of Crew Workload for the RAH-66 Comanche Force Development Experiment 1

ARMY RESEARCH LABORATORY - 2001

http://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2001/ARL-TN-183.pdf

3.3

Comparative Workload Levels Between Front Seat and Back Seat

No statistically significant differences in workload ratings were provided by

pilots when they flew the aircraft versus when they operated the MEP. However,

when asked to rate whether overall workload was higher for the front or back

seat for the missions they performed, pilots reported that workload was

somewhat higher (54%) or much higher (22%) for the back seat compared to the

front seat. The primary reason given by the pilots was that operating the MEP

required the crew member to perform more tasks in the same time interval than

the crew member who was flying the aircraft. Also, pilots reported during post-

flight discussions that usability problems with the CIK, TSD, and “slew†hook-

FOV switches on the collective grip contributed to higher workload for the pilot

in the back seat. The pilot operating the MEP uses the CIK, TSD, and FOV-slew

switches more often during the mission than does the pilot flying the aircraft.

Cockpits are identical with dual controls but above indicates a preference to fly from the front seat? If you watch the test videos and pictures pilots fly from front / back on different occasions so does it really matter as we have the option in A3 to switch controls? So make both seats identical with targetting and flying controls and let the crew decide what they want to do?

It's July next week and time is short till final release so if this is left for a future update - I wouldn't mind. It's possible to use it as is, just not accurate.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[yasotay 197]

It doesn't really. Reference is always better than hearsay. Changing data like this is not something BI does very often so if you want to make a convincing case, I would provide as much information as possible.

Roger that. Will see if I can find some compelling data.

[progamer 14]

It doesn't really. Reference is always better than hearsay. Changing data like this is not something BI does very often so if you want to make a convincing case, I would provide as much information as possible.

If you do find this information, please edit the ticket or tell me what to add.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Assessment of Crew Workload for the RAH-66 Comanche Force Development Experiment 1

ARMY RESEARCH LABORATORY - 2001

http://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2001/ARL-TN-183.pdf

Cockpits are identical with dual controls but above indicates a preference to fly from the front seat? If you watch the test videos and pictures pilots fly from front / back on different occasions so does it really matter as we have the option in A3 to switch controls? So make both seats identical with targetting and flying controls and let the crew decide what they want to do?

It's July next week and time is short till final release so if this is left for a future update - I wouldn't mind. It's possible to use it as is, just not accurate.

Don't worry, a .mil official pdf won't be enough proof for people. Need moar!

[max power 21]

If you do find this information, please edit the ticket or tell me what to add.

The information that Mattar_Tharkari linked to is a start, I suppose, even though it seems only to suggest a preference among pilots.

I remember reading that the pilots sit in the front of the comanche a long time ago as well, but I can't remember where. It probably wasn't from the internets.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ----------

Don't worry, a .mil official pdf won't be enough proof for people. Need moar!

In the past, BI hasn't made large data changes very often. Changing the arrangement of the crew in the comanche is not really a huge change but it's also not a tweak. It's possible that if they are happy the way it works now, no amount of information will be sufficient.