infantry Anti tank/Anti air to strong?

[Qosmius 10]

hello ladies and gentlemen, i am just wondering if the anti tank weapons that we currently have ingame are supposed to be so strong? since they can lock onto absoultely anything and once the reticle is zeroed in you have 0.00001% of survival if you get hit by that missile.

i mean every helicopters get taken out by 1 missile, i know some helicopters in real life have taken a rpg hit to the engine and still kept flying but here both engines seems to be taken out at the same time leading to a painful crash for both the pilot and the passengers with no possibilty to autorotate to a safer landing. you just drop like a brick.

also every vehicle gets 1 shotted by the anti tank weapons except of the apc where everything just turns red and immobilised so you have a chance to get out. but that is not an option anymore now that the titan missile launcher is here..it 1 shoots even the apcs from front so it instantly explodes.

can any mod/developer actually acknowledge if these powerful anti tank weapons are going to be the normal stuff we see on the battlefield in arma3? or will we also be given lighter stuff that wont instakill anything and dont have a lock on feature. so that the poor enemy you are aiming at atleast have a chance to get away.

i really loved the carl gustav and at4 in arma 2..

but currently as i am seeing now there are only high tech guided missiles everywhere and armor aint worth nothing against thoose.

share your thoughts about this..

Qos

[Tonci87 163]

A realistic armor penetration system would solve many problems, but here we go again with the HP based one...

[progamer 14]

I believe you get an indication of we're the missle is comming from in your heli via the top circle or somewhere else which then you can deploy flares.

[Qosmius 10]

i would be happy if they just could add something similar to the carl gustav in arma 2..there you actually need to be good and know what to do if aiming further than 200 meters. but here they hit anything as far as you can see.

but doesnt the arma developers realise something themself when they are making stuff like this into the game with poor armor system? how much hp does a missile really do to vehicles and how much hp does vehicles have?

[Tyl3r99 41]

missiles in this game have a 1,000,000 attack points and a helicopter has only lets say 1,000 defence points ;)

[chortles 263]

I believe the complaint is about the extent of locking and tracking with MANPADS....

[Qosmius 10]

also how powerful the missiles are compared to current vehicles ingame and vehicle countermeasures

[Rolling 1]

Playing domination is hardly any fun for me, since anyone can just pick up an RPG-42 and insta-kill any enemy armor or cars. It also seems they hardly have any drop even when fired unguided, so it makes it ridiculously easy to take out everything. If the game doesn't get some sort of improvement to the armor system, it will REALLY suffer.

[progamer 14]

Playing domination is hardly any fun for me, since anyone can just pick up an RPG-42 and insta-kill any enemy armor or cars. It also seems they hardly have any drop even when fired unguided, so it makes it ridiculously easy to take out everything. If the game doesn't get some sort of improvement to the armor system, it will REALLY suffer.

Servers should limit the number of AT and AA soldiers and give them less ammo than the 10 or so each person can carry so that it is more realistic.

[ZoneTrooper 10]

First of all the Rockets that you see here are normaly not against these Hello Kitty vehicles that you see in ALPHA/BETA Content.RPG and the NLAW are Anti Tank weapons,the RPG-32 for a example has a 650 mm penetration ratio no Armored vehicle MRAP or APC could survive such a rocket hit.The US Arbrams M1A2 has a Frontal hull armor of 650 mm armor with composite armor,so the RPG could but i doubt that it would penetrate him,and the NLAW rockets usually dont hit the tank directly,they explode above the Turret of the vehicle while the main charge goes inside of the turret from above where he nearly has no armor and kills everything in it.And when i think about these lock on systems,the Titan is a counterpart of the Javelin rocket that kills everything with 1 hit even tanks,maybe they will be disabled and after that they would explode,of course the rockets are extremly strong,so the modders of maps have to limit them,so that not everyone is going to run around with them.Also the lock on system can be deactivated on some servers,you still can lock on,but you dont see the lock on symbols anymore so that makes it harder to attack helicopters and even if someone should fire a rocket,you have flares to guide the rocket away from the chopper.

[Binkley13 10]

Test fired a Titan AA at a UH-80, no RWR went off, no tone, nothing. The countermeasures worked, but I knew my friend was firing. I'm sure this will change through future updates. Even so, I still agree with the OP, really with any of the guided weapons to date. I'm in a commanche, I can press tab, and instalock without using any detection systems, and fire away. Like-wise, I can pop out my Titan AA, and destroy a troop of attack helos without breaking a sweat. With the current flare burst mode, you use something like 60 flares each burst. So, like two bumps and the buckets empty.

My biggest gripe has to be that the A/MH-9 has zero countermeasures. None. It is apparently a future version of the killer egg, and yet it has less capabilities as the current model. The AH-6i, for example. The A/Mh-9's have no CMS, RWR, flare/chaff bucket, nothing. But, I digress.

I just find it goes against the core of the combined arms gameplay, when a fireteam sized element can easily best a section of IFV's. I understand the realistic aspect, as the FGM-148, and others like it, have quite the array of attack possibilities. But, the Javelin itself takes a bit to actually "lock" on, as you adjust your targeting bracket (not to mention I hope you've had the CLU on before you ran into armor, so it has had time to cool down), and the current build of A3 does nothing to justify that. Also, the CLU is cumbersome as hell, and one launch tube assembly alone takes up...well, the entire space of the launcher. So, it pretty much requires a dedicated AT team to use effectively.

Also, if these missiles are in the future to become so saturated on the battlefield, it would really just end the reign of the king of battle, would it not? No reason to produce armored assets anymore. In the real world, cost, production capabilities, and logistical concerns come into play.

I guess to sum up, I'm not too sure if I agree with the ridiculous amounts of lethality A3 is presenting. Of course, it can be dictated by mission designers, etc., but from a gameplay standpoint, it seems to me that it is losing it's tactics-centric focus and requiring adaptability, i.e. actions on contact, to more of a "Oh, armor, I've got something for that. Oh, helos, I've got something for that. And I win." Anywho, my two cents, however winding, and convoluted they may be.

[Masharra 10]

Also, if these missiles are in the future to become so saturated on the battlefield, it would really just end the reign of the king of battle, would it not? No reason to produce armored assets anymore. In the real world, cost, production capabilities, and logistical concerns come into play.

Umm? Infantry is the Queen of battle and IIRC Artillery is the King of battle.

That being said IIRC they are somewhat already toning down mbt's as a whole partially because it takes a 60k rocket to destroy a 10million+ tank.

[Henry Rollins 10]

If only the RWR's worked in the helicopters we would have a chance. As it is now I find myself staring at the radar. Also there are plenty of MFD's in the choppers that can be used as PIP, I hope they take advantage of them. Finally the helmet mounted displays are far inferior to TOP OWL and other systems in use today. I'd like to see thermals displayed in my visor.

[Tonci87 163]

The Tanks need Arena and Trophy systems.

[Varanon 892]

Add to that that you can carry a ton of rockets (the normal AT rifleman already has two for a javelin-like missile). Remember when in Arma 2, you could take one ? Now, you can take more, a rocket launcher, and a backpack to carry even more. It's not impossible to carry four or five for the Titan and since there's no effect of encumbrance other than a blurry screen...

[papanowel 120]

The Tanks need Arena and Trophy systems.

Some of the russian tanks have something similar in Ace 1, it was nearly impossible to destroy :cool:

[Binkley13 10]

Umm? Infantry is the Queen of battle and IIRC Artillery is the King of battle.

Haha, yeah, it is. I meant armor. Got all riled up.

[byku 13]

Furthermore guys, the KA60 also doesn't have flares which sucks a lot. Moreover when the gunship is dropping flares they do not interrupt the locking mechanism of the ir manpad, and that would improve the gameplay a lot. When we will not have the possibility to get a warning from ir locking(which is unrealistic) then it would be mandatory to use flares in automatic as a precaution(even BF has that :O). Also Bohemia should lower the flares amount in the choppers a bit(comanche with it's 300 - i suppose they went the easy way of saying "it's stealth"? :P) after improving their mechanics.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Byku

[Qosmius 10]

papa, thats how it should be..tanks are not some kind of small toy to be joked with in battles. oh i see a tank over there let me just grab my doomcanon and get rid of it. in real life if you spot a tank, you can be hell of a sure it has already spotted you and a shell is flying your way. the tab lock mechanic is ruining the gameplay alot.

tanks are supposed to be able to withstand several hits from to the front armor

[byku 13]

....

Agree, although we don't have tanks yet, but the possibility of destroying apc with rifle now doesn't make me too optimistic about the future, but we'll see. Although the trophy should have some weaknesses. I've tried to search something about their weaknesses but without success. Maybe protection from sides only(not back, although it has 360* protection), and it would work similarly to flares(you get a warning that a rocket has been fired[bUT NOT ON SOME ARTIFICIAL RADAR, just the sound], and then you would have to hit a button to activate trophy), with limited uses(2?4?).

Edited June 25, 2013 by Byku

[Masharra 10]

Agree, although we don't have tanks yet, but the possibility of destroying apc with rifle now doesn't make me too optimistic about the future, but we'll see. Although the trophy should have some weaknesses. I've tried to search something about their weaknesses but without success. Maybe protection from sides only(not back, although it has 360* protection), and it would work similarly to flares(you get a warning that a rocket has been fired[bUT NOT ON SOME ARTIFICIAL RADAR, just the sound], and then you would have to hit a button to activate trophy), with limited uses(2?4?).

IF no weaknesses are found then no weaknesses should be artificially introduced. Also you did not search hard enough. http://vpk.name/news/33520_izrailskaya_sistema_aktivnoi_zashityi_tankov_trofi_kak_i_lyubaya_drugaya_podobnaya_sistema_preodolimyi.html

[byku 13]

...[/url]

First of all it's in russian :P, but i've translated that(thank god for google). Second, Rafael already has already stated that they've created countermeasures for RPG-30, so it doesn't pose a threat anymore. Furthermore, if... in the future there will be a missile system that will counter the throphy system, then what's the point of it in the first place? Everyone would walk with it, and it will be the same all over again. The only way to do that is to act it a bit like flares(not that it will change the trajectory of the missile, but destroy it), it will have limited usage and the reflex of the user will be important.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153102#.T0icm_WAna8

Edited June 25, 2013 by Byku

[fragmachine 12]

Some of the russian tanks have something similar in Ace 1, it was nearly impossible to destroy :cool:

You might mean SHTORA systems - which is an counterpart to TROPHY and ARENA. :)

[Yottahertz_ 51]

A friend and I were chasing a Mi-48 in a Ghosthawk and used well over 1000 rounds and couldn't bring it down.

[byku 13]

A friend and I were chasing a Mi-48 in a Ghosthawk and used well over 1000 rounds and couldn't bring it down.

Not surprised, it has 6,5mm bullets, it won't do much to a heavy armored gunship, furthermore I bet you didn't hit it 1000 times :P.