Fatigue effects

[Smurf 12]

Yeah but the conclusion is the same: the only thing that weight affect is your fatigue rate; Fatigue side effects are weak, almost no penalty; Encumberance (volume) doesn't seems to affect anything.

One thing is the ability to carry a lot of stuff across a great distance, easily possible. Another thing is being combat effective with it.

I had great expectations over this new system but it seems that mods will have to work it. As for right now, it is no much different from A2.

PS: I was looking for that table, couldn't find it. It had some useful information.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Smurf

[metalcraze 290]

In A2 you couldn't carry ridiculous loads like you can now. That's actually a huge difference and it also hurts teamwork.

Much like FAKs that eliminate the need for medic - the ability to carry a backpack and a rocket launcher without penalties for taking missiles eliminate the need for assistant AT rifleman that would help you with carrying your ammo.

Without penalties and limitations ArmA is moving away from team based gameplay and into the lone wolf / everyone for himself area.

[GottyPlays 10]

the blur have to go, i don't care if there is an army of masochist bi forum users that want to force it in for EVERYONE, i just can't stand it, it's still a VIDEO GAME.

remove it at LEAST from the jog, why soldiers have to be punished for simple walking? i understand that devs dont want to turn ths into an arena shooter like quake with people bunny hopping and sprinting everywhere, but seriously, this is only a huge annoyance...

in arma 2 was done right, we had freedom to move, now we are forced to calculate how hills will decrease our accuracy after 50 m walk...i prefer to concentrate on enemy and friendlies positions, this system encourages camping

[Smurf 12]

In A2 you couldn't carry ridiculous loads like you can now. That's actually a huge difference and it also hurts teamwork.

Much like FAKs that eliminate the need for medic - the ability to carry a backpack and a rocket launcher without penalties for taking missiles eliminate the need for assistant AT rifleman that would help you with carrying your ammo.

Without penalties and limitations ArmA is moving away from team based gameplay and into the lone wolf / everyone for himself area.

That is just a matter of tweaks to the weight of things or the maximum weight one can take. For all we know, this all could be just place holders and if they aren`t, won't take long to someone make a proper config to them.

Penalties and limitations on the other hand aren't as easy and I don't know how deep changes can go there.

the blur have to go, i don't care if there is an army of masochist bi forum users that want to force it in for EVERYONE, i just can't stand it, it's still a VIDEO GAME.

remove it at LEAST from the jog, why soldiers have to be punished for simple walking? i understand that devs dont want to turn ths into an arena shooter like quake with people bunny hopping and sprinting everywhere, but seriously, this is only a huge annoyance...

in arma 2 was done right, we had freedom to move, now we are forced to calculate how hills will decrease our accuracy after 50 m walk...i prefer to concentrate on enemy and friendlies positions, this system encourages camping

Yeah, blur seems to be an unnecessary annoyance that don`t look and isn't realistic (or authentic :j:) at all. All other side effects are too weak.

[liquidpinky 11]

Yeah, blur seems to be an unnecessary annoyance that don`t look and isn't realistic (or authentic :j:) at all. All other side effects are too weak.

Until you arrive into a heavily populated anemy AO with it in full swing, then the shit hits the fan, because you aren't hitting it for while.

Maybe the build up to full effect from initial effect needs to be more severe though, so you get hammered quicker with weapon sway.

Either way, I will get punished for showing up to a job properly tooled up while lightweight COD twitch shooter like loadout players will be unscathed as usual.

But I will also agree that sway needs upgraded and blur removed or lessened to keep it authentic and fair.

[lonewolf12 1]

they really need to take this out. Everyone ive spoke to says it makes them feel ill. Really gives the impression that the developers arent in touch with the users when they release something like this. Sooner the better. Nice idea, but if you want to play for two hours straight this is going to be nothing but disorienting.

In arma 2 it was the fiddly animations that were unsettling, arma 3 is a breath of fresh air. This fatigue blur is claustrophobic.

[Varanon 892]

For all we know, this all could be just place holders

That's the problem. "For all we know". No one says anything about these subject, even these hot subjects. But we do know that one of the major known issues is that fish don't react to players... sigh...

I understand that a company can't communicate everything, but since the point of the early adoption is feedback, it should be possible to at least react to feedback and tell people what they will make of it.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Varanon
Typo

[aoshi 1]

i prefer a head bob than a forced PP/blur, the fatigue we experience it´s more related to the head bobbing from inspiring and expiring than blur resulting from lack of oxygen

agree

[-Coulum- 35]

I agree as well but I am sure there would then be complaints about people getting sick because of all the unnatural head bobbing.

I think one problem with the fatigue system is that the negative effects have a limit. Basically this limit is 45 seconds of weaponsway when you stop running. The problem is if that limit is reached after, let's say. a 1km run, It doesn't matter if I run 1.5 km or 2000 km, the negative effect will still be 45 seconds of weaponsway. I think that the negative effects should have more "range".

[Fuse 1]

Thank you for all your feedback. We are currently trying to find out where is a core of this problem. Current version of fatigue effect is in the game since 7th may update. There were some changes after that date, but it was just tweaking of duty coeficient in animations (= how much is fatigue affected by given animation) and the effect itself is the same. There were only few negative reactions on the fatigue effect before beta release, but according to the number of negative reactions after beta release it seems that some new problem appeared.

That is the reason why I would like to ask you for cooperation and help. Could you please describe precisely what is the difference between the fatigue effect in the alpha and in the beta? Are/Were you using any mod which can affect postprocesses? Were you playing with disabled or low postprocesses before the beta? Could you please take some pictures or better videos of the fatigue effect in your game?

Thank you for your help :)

This thread seems to have been well derailed, but in case you're still looking at it in regards to the original issue:

Here is an example, full resolution and without significant compression.

I'm running on an i5 & GTX 570. The game is running at 1920x1080, 100% sampling, all settings on very high or above, 4x AA & FXAA Ultra, both blurs are at 0, DoF at 10. I had not seen the heavy blur in alpha, all I remember noticing was the pulsing shadow that would creep in from the edges. I believe I had post-processing effects disabled in the alpha options menu because blur and heavy DoF tend to make me feel ill.

Some gamers, my self included, get nauseous when playing games with significant blur and distortion. Even were this not the case, I think the current effect does not look good. The blur is very heavy and, as you can see, causes the image to appear pixelated. The quoted post makes it sound like it's not working as intended, and I certainly hope that is the case! My friend had to leave me behind yesterday because my character got fatigued and I had to stop for a while before I could look at the screen again.

And no, thank YOU! :p

Edited June 26, 2013 by Fuse

[GottyPlays 10]

This thread seems to have been well derailed, but in case you're still looking at it in regards to the original issue:

Here is an example, full resolution and without significant compression.

I'm running on an i5 & GTX 570. The game is running at 1920x1080, 100% sampling, all settings on very high or above, 4x AA & FXAA Ultra, both blurs are at 0, DoF at 10. I had not seen the heavy blur in alpha, all I remember noticing was the pulsing shadow that would creep in from the edges. I believe I had post-processing effects disabled in the alpha options menu because blur and heavy DoF tend to make me feel ill.

Some gamers, my self included, get nauseous when playing games with significant blur and distortion. Even were this not the case, I think the current effect does not look good. The blur is very heavy and, as you can see, causes the image to appear pixelated. The quoted post makes it sound like it's not working as intended, and I certainly hope that is the case! My friend had to leave me behind yesterday because my character got fatigued and I had to stop for a while before I could look at the screen again.

And no, thank YOU! :p

+1

so many times that happened to me... :(

I had a light dizziness after 30 mins of play in MP with this blur fatique effect. And I dont have epilepsy disorder or anything like that. Really, most games have blur effect only as an option. I thought it is by law. It should be. It isnt a joke guys. I dont want to say I will have any serious consequences but I cant play longer than 30 mins and thats bad...In fact I will stop playing till they remove that effect.

After all it isnt realistic. Back then, when I was in army, if I was running with full gear I would just slow down (couldnt go as fast)....why we cant have that in game?? Never experinced anything like blur effect in real life. The best solution would be that a player character just slows down after some period of time; after running...Or if they really need (for some reason) to put some visual effect then it shouldnt been blur....

Its a serious issue so I hope devs will react.....

just like arma 2, this would be perfect

Edited June 26, 2013 by GottyPlays

[Smurf 12]

What could have happened is, with the separation of PP effects, more people are using Blur or using it on a higher strength. I used to set PP to Low because of the DoF and blur didn't seem to be so strong back then.

[Tvrdi 10]

I had a light dizziness after 30 mins of play in MP with this blur fatique effect. And I dont have epilepsy disorder or anything like that. Really, most games have blur effect only as an option. I thought it is by law. It should be. It isnt a joke guys. I dont want to say I will have any serious consequences but I cant play longer than 30 mins and thats bad...In fact I will stop playing till they remove that effect.

After all it isnt realistic. Back then, when I was in army, if I was running with full gear I would just slow down (couldnt go as fast)....why we cant have that in game?? Never experinced anything like blur effect in real life. The best solution would be that a player character just slows down after some period of time; after running...Or if they really need (for some reason) to put some visual effect then it shouldnt been blur....

Its a serious issue so I hope devs will react.....

[Rodbar 10]

Yep Im the same I get nauseous with blur on screen its not good and actually a game breaker for me and like the above posters are saying its not realistic at all , I run half marathons and train daily this effect does not happen , blurry anything in games except for dying is no good , I hope developer's listen to all the people complaining about it .

[Sorienz 10]

They seriously need to change the blur effect. I had to stop playing today after an hour or so because it was giving me such a bad headache. It's literally unplayable for me it fucks my eyes up so much. I'm really enjoying the game but this is a deal breaker. :mad:

Please for the love of god remove it... It's not realistic and if it's just there to make shooting while fatigued harder I think that was already accomplished pretty well with how it was in A2.

[teach 1]

I like the blurring to simulate being exhausted. I really hope it stays as a forced model. I always prefer games to have robust options but in this case, it makes perfect sense when you run uphill too long or gas yourself to suffer tremendously for that. Thanks BIS.

---------- Post added at 03:55 ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 ----------

They seriously need to change the blur effect. I had to stop playing today after an hour or so because it was giving me such a bad headache. It's literally unplayable for me it fucks my eyes up so much. I'm really enjoying the game but this is a deal breaker. :mad:

Please for the love of god remove it... It's not realistic and if it's just there to make shooting while fatigued harder I think that was already accomplished pretty well with how it was in A2.

Seriously?? Wow. Im sorry but it hurts your eyes?? Seriously?? A deal breaker?? C'mon. Get real.

[chortles 263]

There's multiple people in this thread complaining about the blur as hurting people's eyes, not just Sorienz...

[afp 1]

I like the blurring to simulate being exhausted. I really hope it stays as a forced model. I always prefer games to have robust options but in this case, it makes perfect sense when you run uphill too long or gas yourself to suffer tremendously for that. Thanks BIS.

It would be nice to be in game as an option and BIS make it even more intense for people who like it. Anyway, how can I unsee this?

[-Coulum- 35]

Back then, when I was in army, if I was running with full gear I would just slow down (couldnt go as fast)....why we cant have that in game?? Never experinced anything like blur effect in real life. The best solution would be that a player character just slows down after some period of time; after running...Or if they really need (for some reason) to put some visual effect then it shouldnt been blur....

The whole point of blur and negative effects is so that you just do exactly that. Slow down. If you take the proper amount of gear and pace yourself accordingly, slowing down when you get tired you would never have blur effects in arma as well! Seems people don't realize that though and keep running even though they should be slowing down and taking a breather. Basically, if you don't want sway and blur, don't sprint and run 2 km unless you absolutely have to. Forcing the player to slow down would be a good solution but then it also brings up frustrations (i.e a player is in the middle of the open in a firefight and all he can do is walk to cover - in real life you would probably find it within yourself to run.)

[Anachoretes 10]

New game - new conditions. Time will pass and people will start to understand when to slow down, and where the limit for the sprint. But I would like to see the effects of serious congestion like ACE did it. With the attacks on the vestibular apparatus from the blood pressure, loss of balance.

Why? AT unit or missle support unit is not just are guys with things. But fellas with huge weight, which exactly need to manage its stamina very fine. Оr they will leave behind the fireteam..

Edited June 27, 2013 by Anachoretes

[Smurf 12]

Remove the blur.

Increase the black border effect when exhausted.

Remove the ability to hold breath when tired.

Remove the ability to zoom when exhausted.

Walk forced when exhausted.

Maintain weapon sway.

Add a heartbeat sound, louder as more exhausted you become.

Fatigue recovery rate decreased when exhausted.

Fatigue recovery rate decreased when overloaded.

Little reduction on the fatigue increase rate when sprinting.

What about that on fatigue?

Weight (need tweaks all across the board?) and encumberance affecting other things, don't know if it is doable (due engine or time constrains) and should be discussed on a different thread.

[Rodbar 10]

The whole point of blur and negative effects is so that you just do exactly that. Slow down. If you take the proper amount of gear and pace yourself accordingly, slowing down when you get tired you would never have blur effects in arma as well! Seems people don't realize that though and keep running even though they should be slowing down and taking a breather. Basically, if you don't want sway and blur, don't sprint and run 2 km unless you absolutely have to. Forcing the player to slow down would be a good solution but then it also brings up frustrations (i.e a player is in the middle of the open in a firefight and all he can do is walk to cover - in real life you would probably find it within yourself to run.)

In real life blur doesn't happen after a 20 second run , when your fit you got to hit the wall to get blurry vision so why bring it into the game that's supposed to be a sim , when your gassing out you slow down and blow abit that's all .

[-Coulum- 35]

No I have never experienced blur while running. If possible I actually don't want it in arma but I think there should be other serious negatives instead. Basically what keeps arma from being realstic is that in real life you manage your stamina much more cautiously than in arma. In real life you don't just take a jog to the AO in full gear and push yourself to exhaustion just for the hell of it. But in arma you do, because hey, why not. a bit of blur and a minute of weapon sway isn't that bad.

Blur is just one of many ways to remind the player that he is tiring his character out and he should really slow down and act in a more realistic manner. If players did this (and fatigue rates were perfected) nobody would be complaining about blur because you would never see it.

Of course this is all assuming you want total. realism. Some people do not and I understand that.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Remove the blur.

Increase the black border effect when exhausted.

Remove the ability to hold breath when tired.

Remove the ability to zoom when exhausted.

Walk forced when exhausted.

Maintain weapon sway.

Add a heartbeat sound, louder as more exhausted you become.

Fatigue recovery rate decreased when exhausted.

Fatigue recovery rate decreased when overloaded.

Little reduction on the fatigue increase rate when sprinting.

What about that on fatigue?

Weight (need tweaks all across the board?) and encumberance affecting other things, don't know if it is doable (due engine or time constrains) and should be discussed on a different thread.

This and the walking needs to happen when you almost faint or replace the walk with forced rest state so you can go just little bit further.

[chortles 263]

No I have never experienced blur while running. If possible I actually don't want it in arma but I think there should be other serious negatives instead. Basically what keeps arma from being realstic is that in real life you manage your stamina much more cautiously than in arma. In real life you don't just take a jog to the AO in full gear and push yourself to exhaustion just for the hell of it. But in arma you do, because hey, why not. a bit of blur and a minute of weapon sway isn't that bad.

Blur is just one of many ways to remind the player that he is tiring his character out and he should really slow down and act in a more realistic manner. If players did this (and fatigue rates were perfected) nobody would be complaining about blur because you would never see it.

Of course this is all assuming you want total. realism. Some people do not and I understand that.

The funny thing is, part of the reason that I've been leaning away from "forced walk" is that the blur and heavy breathing already is effective at getting me to "take a breather" -- or rather/at least, find the nearest cover from which I can take a breather -- so in that sense "mission accomplished". :p