*SUGGESTION* Explosive Satchels too high up on the Menu, Please fix!!

[Mechwarrior0311 1]

OK! So here is the situation.

I was playing on a server named Gunnyswarehouse and we were doing Invade&Annex Co Op. Someone landed a helicopter and shouted over comms "Everyone get in we are preparing for dustoff in 5 mikes!" or something similar.

A group of troops such as myself sprinted across the deck towards the helicopter and eagerly filled it.

I, being a sniper also leaded with 3 satchel charges, joined in the sprint in an attempt to make this lift to the combat zone.

THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM OCCURRED!

So anyway, the Explosives Satchel command on my menu was at the TOP OF THE LIST.... so I run over and mousewheel up and I have a "Get in Chopper" action, I click it. BUT LO AND BEHOLD... THE CHOPPER FILLS RIGHT AS I CLICK THE BUTTON!

So instead! I click "Place Satchel" because the option to get in chopper DISSAPEARED at that exact nanosecond!!!

I had enough time to shout over comms "SON OF A B****!!" before I got the message "YOU ARE BANNED"

I have since sorted this out with the Gunnyswarehouse moderators and they reviewed what happened and lifted the ban. But Arma is a tight community and if you are a griefer going around blowing up choppers and you dont do anything about it, you may find yourself banned from a LOT of servers. Admins talk to each other and try and weed out the riffraff.

So this message is to Bohemia Interactive. Please put "Place Satchel" at the BOTTOM of the list of actions. You may even want to make it so someone has to click twice. Right now it is far too easy, a simple mis click and its placed and boom.

Thanks for taking the time to read my story and I hope for the best!

-Mechwarrior0311 :o

[Minoza 11]

I still think that system needs serious revamp. It is horrible most of the time, having tens of options (engineers with explosives as example) which I need to scroll through each time I want to do some action...

Different priority for those options doesn't really solve the issue, they tend do appear and disappear when you don't want it to occur, as you stated in your example. Is there a ticket for this?

[Mechwarrior0311 1]

I didnt put a ticket in yet for it, was hoping someone might see it here and pass along the word. You are right though, I probably should. If you want to do it and make a much better one you can use my example I wont mind.

[2nd ranger 282]

There was already a ticket for this issue, or at least a similar one. I think it was the satchel 'Touch off' option that had priority in the list, and as I recall it was supposed to have been fixed, but obviously the problem still remains with the 'place' option. I had this problem yesterday, acccidentally placing a charge because I was being shot at and inadvertently scrolled the mouse wheel and clicked. This meant that I wasted the charge because in Arma 3 you can't disarm charges unless you're an explosive specialist. Any unit has the competency to place a charge but not to deactivate it, which is silly.

There was also alot of good discussion on that ticket about changing the way explosives are handled, such as having to cycle to them in your weapon menu before being able to place or detonate them, perhaps having an actual 'detonator' object. The devs said they were looking into it.

[dmarkwick 261]

This is a general problem with contextual actions. The contextual actions shuffle up & down & appear & disappear as things enter, or leave, your FoV. I can't tell you the number if times I've sent AI subordinates romping to their death into enemy fire because something was wandering about in front of me :)

[killzone_kid 1326]

explosives should be removed from action menu and added as a weapon with own detonator that you actually take out as you take out a gun. Apart from that it looks silly as it is at the moment it is also very easy to detonate placed charges my mistake.

[twistking 204]

hey guys,

the action-menu surely needs some improvments. especially the contextual stuff. i have many ideas of improving the menu in ways that are easily implemented but could make a big difference. i plan to make a ticket and start a discussion in the forum, but decided, that i want to wait till beta hoping that we will see some improvements till then.

my ideas basically are inspired by ace-mod in a way that you would have two action-menus or two "modes" for the action menu. one for contextual actions (get in, get out, pick up weapon, climb up ladder) and one for global, abstract or self-related actions. (change weapon, use equipment, use medkit). there need to be some consideration on how to access these two menus or switch between menus "modes" (global / contextual).

but as said before: i want to wait till beta, then i open a sophisticated ticket and start a thread for some considerations on how to improve action menu and contextual actions. stay tuned! :)

Edited June 14, 2013 by twistking

[Mechwarrior0311 1]

Sounds good Twistking

[andersson 285]

The satchels needs a change. As Killzone_Kid said, they need a detonator like a weapon. It's a gamebreaker when one guy places the only crucial satchel and then dies. No one can detonate that explosive after that.

Make it a proper weapon and most problems regarding satchels would be gone.

And the action menu need some TLC too. In what way I dont know but it's a pita to try to get the right action sometimes. So many times I start to check my gear when I want to get in...

[Minoza 11]

One thing that I was always curious about, why is weapon selection done in contextual way anyways? What's wrong with how games usually do it via numbers? If it's because of command menu, I'd simply ignore commands as long as tilde isn't pressed which would then automatically open command menu and assign numbers to corresponding commands. You could still exit command menu and have numbers back for weapons selection.

[Smurf 12]

One thing that I was always curious about, why is weapon selection done in contextual way anyways? What's wrong with how games usually do it via numbers? If it's because of command menu, I'd simply ignore commands as long as tilde isn't pressed which would then automatically open command menu and assign numbers to corresponding commands. You could still exit command menu and have numbers back for weapons selection.

Arcade shooters do that way. You wanna A3 as a arcade shooter? BURN!

But I agree, the command menu should only be avaible when a unit is selected. It's a shame the whole scheme continue to be the same crap it always was.

[Sneakson 1]

Opening doors, getting into vehicles and that sort of stuff should always be possible by simply pressing space but all actions involving explosives, changing weapons and such should require the player to scroll down and when actions become unavailable they should simply turn grey and not disappear from the list which puts you at the next option automatically.

One thing that I was always curious about, why is weapon selection done in contextual way anyways? What's wrong with how games usually do it via numbers? If it's because of command menu, I'd simply ignore commands as long as tilde isn't pressed which would then automatically open command menu and assign numbers to corresponding commands. You could still exit command menu and have numbers back for weapons selection.

You can bind weapon selection to keys already. One key for gun-handgun and one for gun-launcher. Can’t set to cycle all three or make one button for each though.

[bonham 10]

There are 2 tickets related to this:

ticket #3558 and the previously mentioned ticket #2694 (marked as resolved)

I would welcome it if the action menu was actually not necessary at all to place explosives (or enter a vehicle but that's OT).

A trigger (not a detonator, that's what ignites the explosives) that can be selected as an item seems like a good idea.

[GottyPlays 10]

a simple commo rose should be :1 simple to implement, its just a reorganization of the ui

and should be 2 times faster than scrolling through text that appears in total random order...

something like hovering the mouse on a near container opens up a commo rose around the crosshair with numbers on it, or maybe a similar menu but better organized, ala mass effect 2 or battlefield 2

inb4 "YOU WANT TO ARCADIZE MAI MILSIMULATORRRRR!!111!11!!!"

guys, this is user interface, and for god sake, the clunkiness of a game is not related in any way to realism and military simulation...as i see it, the simplier the commands are, the better immersion

sorry for archaic english but im awake from 20 hours lol

Edited June 14, 2013 by GottyPlays

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

simple solution for this issue

ADD A DAMNED DEDICATED ACTION MENU KEY!

simple! effective! intuitive!

remove the action menu from the default scroll wheel. instead give us a bind-able "open action menu" command we can bind our selfs. the key needs to be pressed for the menu to open, THEN the scroll wheel can be used to cycle through the many options. clicking middle mouse or hitting the "action" key selects the menu item. if the "open action menu" key is released the menu closes (no more god damned spamming the backspace key to close the action menu, then the command menu in the middle of a firefight... ).

this is just one of a couple of key-bind issues that need to be completely reworked. it's been a gripe of mine since the demo of OFP:CWC back in late 2000... FIX IT!

the other key bind issue is the "too cumbersome to be of any actual benefit" "adjust stance key configuration".. if we have dedicated keys used for going prone, crouch and stand, who's genius idea was it to lock the stance up/down function to "move forward/move back"? how is that intuitive? all it does is give the player the option of either "stop where i am to chance my stance, or don't change stance as i approach this low wall and get my head blown off"

since there are already three keys for changing stance (prone-crouch-stand), why not use those with the stance modifier key to adjust stance hight? it would free up the movement keys.

[Fuse 1]

Agreed that satchel should be at the bottom of the list. Other than that I've had no problems using the scroll menu. I'm pretty new to Arma (~50hrs between A2 & A3) but I actually think the action menu works very well apart from the issue with context-sensitive actions disappearing and moving the list around. Move explosives to the bottom and grey-out unavailable contextual actions like entering a full vehicle. I don't really get how people have problems with anything else. The menu is quick, simple, and doesn't interfere with your view or weapon function. That's exactly what I want in a UI element. No need to get fancy with it.

[Redjevel 1]

I would also like to see that players need to click 2x G to throw grenade

[mordeaniischaos 3]

I still think that system needs serious revamp. It is horrible most of the time, having tens of options (engineers with explosives as example) which I need to scroll through each time I want to do some action...

Different priority for those options doesn't really solve the issue, they tend do appear and disappear when you don't want it to occur, as you stated in your example. Is there a ticket for this?

In reality, if you have a bunch of explosives, you have to dig through your gear to find it, grab it, and deploy it. You aren't going to press a key and it instantly appears. Detonation on the other hand does need to be handled better.

It doesn't need to be streamlined, if anything it needs to be made a little slower. The major issue is trying to detonate, which can be a pain when the menu reorders constantly. At least they, as I recall, fixed the issue of having detonate be the default option in the menu, so if you tried to open a door but missed, you'd just blow yourself to smithereens. I started a ticket and it was supposedly fixed (or at least slated to be fixed) but I don't know that I ever tested it.

[Minoza 11]

In reality, if you have a bunch of explosives, you have to dig through your gear to find it, grab it, and deploy it. You aren't going to press a key and it instantly appears. Detonation on the other hand does need to be handled better.

It doesn't need to be streamlined, if anything it needs to be made a little slower. The major issue is trying to detonate, which can be a pain when the menu reorders constantly. At least they, as I recall, fixed the issue of having detonate be the default option in the menu, so if you tried to open a door but missed, you'd just blow yourself to smithereens. I started a ticket and it was supposedly fixed (or at least slated to be fixed) but I don't know that I ever tested it.

You missed my point. Also, it is a game, not a reality, it tends to simulate stuff from reality to some extent, but at point where I get frustrated by it I want it to stop. I don't want my explosives to magically appear, (which they actually do right now anyways so I don't get what you mean by that), I actually want to keep contextual stuff only for actions that will not clutter my interface. Explosives could be as realistically "found" through graphical UI like popular "radial menu" suggestion which would pop on key hold or press, it wouldn't make it any less real than it currently is. This is of course just one example, the point was to make room in context menu for stuff like interaction with environment, vehicles etc. and keeping you safe from not accidentally blowing stuff up.

I'd be more than happy to have my primary weapon and all its sub-functions on number "1" for example, side arm on "2" and so on... Same could go for explosives, press and hold number, choose desired explosive with scroll (retaining mouse aiming even while selecting). If you want to detonate, equip detonator... Simple, fast, safe and accurate! In the same time, you could choose to switch to command menu which would disable those shortcuts while commanding.

I can't believe someone would actually want his action menu cluttered as it currently is because it makes him feel more realistic.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Minoza

[chortles 263]

I would also like to see that players need to click 2x G to throw grenade

That at least is simply a matter of default keybinds... isn't it?

I should note/admit that as far as "if we're stuck with the action menu" goes, my personal preference would be for the sidearm or long gun (when transitioning from one to the other) to take precedence atop the action menu.

[EDcase 87]

I would also like to see that players need to click 2x G to throw grenade

You can bind it to that if you want.

The scroll menu is a pain but its often needed as options that should come up with the icon in the middle of the screen aren't reliable.

[Fuse 1]

That at least is simply a matter of default keybinds... isn't it?

I should note/admit that as far as "if we're stuck with the action menu" goes, my personal preference would be for the sidearm or long gun (when transitioning from one to the other) to take precedence atop the action menu.

Personally I think anything I can directly bind to a key belongs as far down the action menu as possible.

And they say you can't please everyone. haha