Snipers need extra Realism tweaks

[Masharra 10]

Better question : Considering the community we have, Why would you assume it won't regardless of the makers wish? (And no, i'm not)

I guess that means cwr is coming to arma 3 then?

[chortles 263]

Better question : Considering the community we have, Why would you assume it won't regardless of the makers wish? (And no, i'm not)

Didn't see the earlier "addon makers' rights" arguments this year after the Steamworks announcement and the realization that Steam Workshop integration might actually happen (and was confirmed for missions) I take it? :p

As for my question, I asked since I'm only aware of two or three ACE team members and you were saying "which will be coming to arma 3 in due order" so I was wondering if you were one of the others and knew more about "ACE3 progress" than those members (Xeno or Sickboy) had said publicly.

[Anachoretes 10]

Ballistics would calc from many aspects in vanilla: wind, temperature, humidity, etc. This words from developers. But if not - ACE make it. But ACE for ARMA 3 can be started to compile only after ARMA 3 release, isnt?

[Insanatrix 0]

They already give bigger fatigue penalty but since fatigue system in ArmA3 is just a bunch of visual effects and has zero effect on gameplay - it changes literally nothing.

No sway will fix laser precision of weapons in ArmA3. Because ballistics. Windage is what will.

VTS Ballistics mod shows how a lot more skill is needed to hit things at a distance if all of it wasn't a mod but official.

I agree, wind can even play a factor in firefights at 200-300m depending on wind strength.

[-Coulum- 35]

Yes wind would be great and one of the first things I would want for sniper rifles - but I think BIS has made it pretty clear that wind is not going to be in (for what reason beats me). We need to think of other ways to balance the ease of using high magnification scopes.

[max power 21]

Better question : Considering the community we have, Why would you assume it won't regardless of the makers wish?

I would like to think that the addon maker's wishes would be respected 'considering the community we have'. Individuals should respect addon maker's wishes if they wish to remain members of this forum.

[-Gews- 1]

ACE is more of a more realistic infantry simulation mod, Arma is a combined arms game.

Game, sim, it doesn't matter, adding wind makes it better. Most people agree and those that don't can't come up with any good arguments against it.

[Austinporter 10]

i agree a ton!

[chortles 263]

I would like to think that the addon maker's wishes would be respected 'considering the community we have'. Individuals should respect addon maker's wishes if they wish to remain members of this forum.

Pretty much this right here, especially now that Steam Workshop integration is confirmed (even if for now only missions).

Re: ACE3: NouberNou mentioned two months back on Reddit that ACE3 is happening, no ETA though.

[Von Quest 1163]

Works great. Both SP & MP. [view/try here] First mod/script I downloaded. Won't play without it. Can adjust the force-variable as you like for realistic or exaggerated effect. (read my post on pg4, looking for info)

Sniping is one of the great potentials of the game!

[Inimical_rize 1]

Pure and simply put, Long range shooting in this game is far to simple, be it fire from the I.W or a Long range weapon, pointing and clicking and hitting is getting tedious And now the game is just full of them, From EBR's to the .50's there is no real combat at all and sadly many of us saw it coming as soon as bis said that pack was coming. Bitter.

[froggyluv 2136]

Pure and simply put, Long range shooting in this game is far to simple, be it fire from the I.W or a Long range weapon, pointing and clicking and hitting is getting tedious And now the game is just full of them, From EBR's to the .50's there is no real combat at all and sadly many of us saw it coming as soon as bis said that pack was coming. Bitter.

Curious given your backround - what do you believe are the crucial missing components for better firefights?

[Smurf 12]

Why the wind + gusts sliders and direction in the editor then? To affect just particles? Calculations for every bullet are too heavy on CPU?

[Khabbi 10]

Delta Force 2 was a really good sniper game . It had wind and bullet drop . Snipers used to run for 1-5 mins to the best hiding spots with ghillie suits and hide in grass . Setting up sniping spots where they could get about 1-50 kills a game without getting caught . Atleast the good snipers did , hiding for those one shot one kill shots .

Wind was working and so was bullet drop so with most shots being from about 300-1200 meters it was abit of getting used to it . You had range finder in the scope and another one indecating how much wind you had from what direction

Close combat was really hard , unless you got a really good shot in while being lucky you had almost no chans vs a guy with a M4 or SAW . So most snipers made the run out far , picked their shots pretty carefully . There was alot of counter sniping too . being up on the hills you could sometimes see the other snipers fire or some pixel moving , some really interesting things happend in counter sniping .

Ofcourse you also had the weird dudes running around with sniper rifles in less then 100 meters , hiding in plain sight and so on

Too make sniping fun you need a ghillie suit , diffrent kinds of rifles , good spots to hide on , foliage , bullet drop , wind , diffrent ammo , and some other stuff I cant think of right now

To play somewhat like a sniper you should want to make those 10 min runs to the good hiding spots where you can set up for maybe just 1 kill per round . That perfect one shot one kill . Not run around in the middle of things

[rocksy 11]

All long guns should be contained in a long gun bag which have limited capacity, say one rifle and 6 mags.

Needs to be fired from a supported position. Can't be slung, either packed or unpacked. Still have the ability to carry an MXC/M4 which you swap in and out of the bag for the long gun.

Not applied to marksman rifles.

[Inimical_rize 1]

Curious given your backround - what do you believe are the crucial missing components for better firefights?

Firefights in general are sadly down to the AI, They're still to 1 shot 1 kill with any weapon. However if this will be fixed or not I can't say but given that it wasn't really touched in Arma2 I'd doubt to see much change in their overall skill and kill ability.

Snipers, incorporation of wind would be the only thing, that way a player would have to learn the job instead of just popping rounds off, No more sway should be added as a sniper can get his sights rock steady with only his breath moving the sight. After doing the job for a while guys learn techniques like shallow breathing and can maintain a steady sight picture for a few hours.

I doubt any of this would be incorporated though :( but I'll be sticking to my assault weapons ;)

[HorbeySpector 164]

Since it's not a snipersim we can't 'request' everything. What we can do is ask BI to create 'wind' and decent fooliage. The rest would be up to the modders; they can make accurate ghillie suits, rifles and equipment. We just can't expect BI to do this all. Again; it's not a sniper simulator.

Same logic applies for pretty much all the other 'advanced this' requests around these forums.

[chortles 263]

At last check, Arma 3 was clearly positioned as "softer, shallower but broader 'sim'" than a regular simulator (deeper but narrower).

[rocksy 11]

it's only a matter of time until a mod makes sniping hard for those who want to use it.

NWD Ballistics and GMJames's Windage & Elevation mods back in the old days and we all went ape poopy. The ground work was laid like 6 years ago.

[Masharra 10]

it's only a matter of time until a mod makes sniping hard for those who want to use it.

NWD Ballistics and GMJames's Windage & Elevation mods back in the old days and we all went ape poopy. The ground work was laid like 6 years ago.

All?

meh im done talking its not like ill be on a pub server to care. actually i just dont care at all.

[Smurf 12]

At last check, Arma 3 was clearly positioned as "softer, shallower but broader 'sim'" than a regular simulator (deeper but narrower).

It's not even a case of realism freak but balance.

You already have easy ranging, don't have to bother with misaligned sights and all other crap that makes sniping so hard irl.

Again, windage affects the FPS so much if applied to all bullets?

[chortles 263]

That's admittedly part of what I mean by "softer, shallower". ;)

[Khabbi 10]

Part of the fun in sniping is hiding , finding that perfec shot , working out range and wind . And then "one shot one kill "

Its not the hardest to zero in your scope to 100 or 500 meters , and then fix it betwen each shot so you can take out people at 800 or 1000 meters . the fact that its not easy makes it that much more fun .

Wind doesnt really effect CQB or those 200-300 meter shots much . So not sure how much it would effect FPS .

[ZoneTrooper 10]

I have spent a while watching videos of the new snipers on Youtube and played around briefly with them in the Alpha--and I am again disappointed that they seem much easier to use, thus far. Arma 3 is a simulator, and I think that it should differentiate from other shooters by focusing on realism instead of just "balance". In real life, only a small number of soldiers are sharpshooters--because snipers and other long-range weapons are difficult to use. However, if someone takes the time to learn them, they can have a devestating effect. Here are a few things I think should be improved for realism.

1) Bipods should be included on all snipers, and should be deployable. A sniper without a deployed bipod should be very very hard to aim at long-range and should sway considerably. The use of a bipod by the player would add greater stability, but would increase set-up time and minimize the aim radius. This is natural, realistic balancing.

2) When standing or even crouching, long-range shots should be virtually impossible. Sniper rifles are usually bulky, heavy weapons and cannot be aimed accurately without ground deployment. This would naturally balance these weapons vs. regular rifles in the average firefight.

3) Weapon recoil should be much higher than it currently is. If bipods could be deployed, this might mitigate this problem to an extent.

4) Wind Calculation for all weapons. I know that most people don't like this idea, but I think it would add a lot to the game--the current weather and windspeed/direction should effect bullets. This is one of the things that makes snipers in real life so good at their job--they have learned how to calculation in their heads the trajectory of a bullet. It also makes it so players would need to practice and build up experience to use these weapons effectively.

What are your thoughts?

FEEDBACK TRACKER ISSUE LINK!

Most of it is totally wrong in this post.

I mean did you ever seen the GMG 6 Lynx Sniper shooting in real? the weapon nearly has no recoil,thats a fakt,also the Cheytac M320 .408 Cal nearly no recoil especially when you lay on the ground.

Bohemina say that ARMA 3 is a simulator yes but its not,i mean there are 10000 things that they would have to correct and fix so that they can call it realistic militaray simulation.

You can count on that the Modders of the Modification ACE will make ARMA 3 realistic as Possible,like they allready did in ARMA 2.

There version of ARMA 2 with ACE mod was pretty close to a real army simulator.

I guess bohemia fear´s it that it could be like red orchestra to realistic,that it dose not reach every military fan who is playing shooters like these.

Cause in red orchestra players die much much faster then in arma,cause there is everything harder then in ARMA 3.

[Inimical_rize 1]

A good shooter wouldn't have sway weather it is deployed on bipods or rested on a small bean bag, Some snipers prefere not to use the bipod as the closer the weapon is to the floor the more stable it is, I know some snipers have made shots up to 1.5-2.0 using only a few folded socks loosely taped together to create a soft bag.

You cannot snipe stood up less you have a good set of sticks, or an increadibly light weapon, muscle fatigue would cause the sight picture to move a lot.

There are many ways to crouch when using precision weapons, and some crouched positions are as steady as prone if executed correctly.

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------

Cause in red orchestra players die much much faster then in arma,cause there is everything harder then in ARMA 3.

These two games are incredibly different and set in two different times. The designers of RO have factored in the effects of the weapons, bullets ect and no body armour, where as Bis has factored in the same but with body armour, not many Soldier go to war without Armour in todays conflicts.