A tragedy :(

[Badgerboy 0]

Apparantly, both pilots had the rank of Colonel, and reasonable amount of flying hours. But if they insist on low level aeros toward the crowds this sort of thing will happen.

[scout 0]

hey, every body does low level aerobatics. they apperantly not so professional if they allow their wing to scrape the earth....

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaegis @ July 28 2002,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.S. Voenny Internet Magazin means Military Internet Store or shop, not magazine <span id='postcolor'>

Doh! You are right of course. Dunno what i was thinking

[Badgerboy 0]

Low level is one thing, low level towards hundreds of members of the public is another. We just had the Farnbourgh airshow (UK), and a Su27 preforming there woud have to fly parallel to the crowd, at least 200m away, and at no time travel towards the crowd. It makes sense and it works.

Besides, no matter how experienced you are, if your engine stalls or flames out that low and at that AOA, your shafted anyway. Better to prang the jet into a hangar than vapourise 80 people with Avgas.

[Satchel 0]

Many aircraft go down because of human error, the weakest part in the chain and greatest factor i guess , if it´s not for catastrophic mechanical/electronical failures.

Correct countermeassures in, or shortly before, a failure situation could have surely prevented some of the crashes in history.

The rank a pilot has, is not automatically a guarantee for professionalism, responsibility or capabilities- such as a german Bundeswehr SAR UH-1 crashed some time ago because it´s senior aircrew partied heavy the night before, with the pilot doing mad maneuvers the next day, leading to death of all passengers.

There are many things, such as little sleep, not beeing concentrated or simply trying to pull extra radical maneuvers while ignoring the A/C limits to impress the visitors that could have led to the crash, among mechanical/electronical failures of the catastrophic sort.

If it should proove human error, such as a stall because stressing the flight envelope limits too much, i guess one can speak of unprofessional and irresponsible behaviour mixed with insufficent preparation, especially when flying at an airshow low level over visitor crowds-colonel or not.

[Badgerboy 0]

I understand that, and we have rule about drinking etc. '12 hours from bottle to throttle' Plus you sign a form before you fly and part of your outbrief to say that you are fit to fly in all respects.

As for rank, its not the definative way of assuming competence, but from my experience, senior officers have far more experience, plus are far more responsible than the younger officers. Hell, I've had enough bollockings to know this!

This picture is from RAF St Athan

.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Traditionally, on leaving overhaul at Saint Athan, aircraft would do a fly-by for the benefit of the groundcrew who had worked on it. The pilot of this particular Phantom FG1, a retiring Wing Commander, was chatting to a member of the ground crew the day before the departure flight. He said he was going to fly between the hangars and that the guy should be ready with a camera to record the event. It was due to be his last flight, so he was going to do something 'special'. The groundcrew weren't too convinced of the pilot's claim, but stood around as usual anyway watching as the F4took off, destination Leuchars. As the photo shows, the pilot was not joking, you can see the afterburner diamonds quite clearly in front of the hangar.

You can also see personnel standing underneath it. The recently tuned Speys allegedly shook a man working in the roof of one of the hangars enough for him to fall and break his leg. These hangars are set east to west, about 75 yards apart, and you can estimate the height from the length

of the Phantom. Immediately after the event, the pilot was contacted by the tower and was instructed in no uncertain terms to 'return and land immediately'.

As I am told, he did so and was given a severe rollicking. I don't know what action was taken, but it was his last flight in any case. What a way to go out, I wonder if it ranks as one of the shortest logged emergency-free Phantom flights? This story is not exaggerated - I don't know the original photographer, but the picture was taken on an ordinary instamatic camera, and then a blow-up was made. The original is, as a favour, temporarily in the possession of the current Station Commander at St Athan who is an ex-F4 jockey. From the enlargement I have made the Phantom as XV575. The aircraft was scrapped in September 1991, but its legacy has to be this

photograph.

<span id='postcolor'>

I drive past those hangers every other day, and believe me, that is low!

This sort of crap happened all the time, but flight safety rules were introduced to stop this sort of thing. We receive accident reports forms prepared by the MOD after any aircrash. These days, I have to say, the main cause of aviation mishaps in the RAF is mechanical failure and/or birdstrike. One of my instructors, was ex Navy, and one of the best pilots I ever met. He's logged thousands of hours, and ejected twice, plus he's written off over 5 A/C. Each and everyone was down to mechanical failure. He used to tell us, if something fucked up and we went down due to our negligence we'd better snuff it, or he'd finish us with his service pistol.

As for the human element, yes, is is one of the weaker links. But with good training we can effectively minimise the risks envolved.

Remember;

'There are many old pilots, and there are many bold pilots.

but there aren't many old, bold pilots!'

= Take risks, and one day you will fuck up....usually at 600knts.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ July 28 2002,19:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Remember;

'There are many old pilots, and there are many bold pilots.

but there aren't many old, bold pilots!'

= Take risks, and one day you will fuck up....usually at 600knts.<span id='postcolor'>

I think so!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 27 2002,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is 1:1 in big accidents. Rammstein 1988, remember? Two NATO jets colliding in mid-air. Although they were Italians and not Americans, I think.... but it was a NATO airshow.<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe. Reminds me of a joke. 'Have you heard the one about the Italian kamikaze pilot? He flew 20 missions'