Please use the full spectrum of Steam

[scorcher24 10]

Okay, here is some harsh criticism for you guys. Fact is, that Arma 3 will require Steam, no matter where you buy it.

I personally, I am game with that, since I am a Steam fanboy and I mostly only buy games that are on Steam.

What I hate though, is games that require Steam and then don't utilize it.

So here are some points I don't like.

1.) Anti Cheat

Why use BattleEye ( I don't know any other game that uses it btw ) when you can use VAC? On Steam VAC is well known and a great tool for server admins. It is not meant to kick cheaters, it is meant to track them and then get rid of them in ban waves, which has obviously advantages such as hack authors not being able to adapt to new methods of detection quickly. It also does not require cd keys which can be stolen and then misused like it happened with DayZ in the past. A well administrated server is always better than one where the admins don't care about, so it does not make a difference on that end, but a VAC Warning Message is displayed publicly on your profile if you get banned and that is a good thing.

But I guess it is too late for that now.

2.) Coop

Why do you guys not utilize the Steam Friends and Server Network to make Coop happen? The friends invite feature is such a useful one, I don't get it why you guys decided to go the complicated route where I have to search my friends match via the server browser. And then it is hosted locally anyway. So please, add this. It is really important to many Steam users. Don't believe me? Fine, run a survey or whatever, but please add it.

How it is now:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Telling friend the name of the server -> Friend searches the server -> joins or does not find it and you gotta explain how to find it for 10 minutes.

How it should be:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Click invite -> Friend clicks the invite and is in the game, ready to play.

Does that make sense?

3.) Workshop

This is more a suggestion for later, but please do integrate Workshop for missions and mods, it makes it much easier to download than to crawl through all those fansites or forums and suffer their advertising and signup requirements just to get a user made mission or mod.

4.) Achievements

Like it or not, Steam Achievements are a selling point on Steam. So please do integrate them. Not judging on this part though, too early to complain about it :). I am pretty sure they will be in there on release.

Just mentioning it.

This are my concerns regarding a release on Steam and I hope some of it gets heard.

[Droikka 1]

Okay, here is some harsh criticism for you guys. Fact is, that Arma 3 will require Steam, no matter where you buy it.

I personally, I am game with that, since I am a Steam fanboy and I mostly only buy games that are on Steam.

What I hate though, is games that require Steam and then don't utilize it.

So here are some points I don't like.

1.) Anti Cheat

Why use BattleEye ( I don't know any other game that uses it btw ) when you can use VAC? On Steam VAC is well known and a great tool for server admins. It is not meant to kick cheaters, it is meant to track them and then get rid of them in ban waves, which has obviously advantages such as hack authors not being able to adapt to new methods of detection quickly. It also does not require cd keys which can be stolen and then misused like it happened with DayZ in the past. A well administrated server is always better than one where the admins don't care about, so it does not make a difference on that end, but a VAC Warning Message is displayed publicly on your profile if you get banned and that is a good thing.

But I guess it is too late for that now.

2.) Coop

Why do you guys not utilize the Steam Friends and Server Network to make Coop happen? The friends invite feature is such a useful one, I don't get it why you guys decided to go the complicated route where I have to search my friends match via the server browser. And then it is hosted locally anyway. So please, add this. It is really important to many Steam users. Don't believe me? Fine, run a survey or whatever, but please add it.

How it is now:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Telling friend the name of the server -> Friend searches the server -> joins or does not find it and you gotta explain how to find it for 10 minutes.

How it should be:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Click invite -> Friend clicks the invite and is in the game, ready to play.

Does that make sense?

3.) Workshop

This is more a suggestion for later, but please do integrate Workshop for missions and mods, it makes it much easier to download than to crawl through all those fansites or forums and suffer their advertising and signup requirements just to get a user made mission or mod.

4.) Achievements

Like it or not, Steam Achievements are a selling point on Steam. So please do integrate them. Not judging on this part though, too early to complain about it :). I am pretty sure they will be in there on release.

Just mentioning it.

This are my concerns regarding a release on Steam and I hope some of it gets heard.

Because VAC is known by everyone. It's not very hard to bypass it. It's a steamworks and I really fucking hope that they integrate the Steam Browser instead of GOD AWFUL gamespy.

[chortles 263]

Plus frankly, BI probably knows BattlEye more than they know VAC... DayZ standalone is using VAC, but then again it's actually supposed to be more of a MMO under-the-hood. :p

[scorcher24 10]

Because VAC is known by everyone. It's not very hard to bypass it.

Sorry, but that is not true. A lot of people get banned every wave and there is no such thing as bypassing VAC, even though some programs do claim they can.

[TSAndrey 1]

Okay, here is some harsh criticism for you guys. Fact is, that Arma 3 will require Steam, no matter where you buy it.

I personally, I am game with that, since I am a Steam fanboy and I mostly only buy games that are on Steam.

What I hate though, is games that require Steam and then don't utilize it.

So here are some points I don't like.

1.) Anti Cheat

Why use BattleEye ( I don't know any other game that uses it btw ) when you can use VAC? On Steam VAC is well known and a great tool for server admins. It is not meant to kick cheaters, it is meant to track them and then get rid of them in ban waves, which has obviously advantages such as hack authors not being able to adapt to new methods of detection quickly. It also does not require cd keys which can be stolen and then misused like it happened with DayZ in the past. A well administrated server is always better than one where the admins don't care about, so it does not make a difference on that end, but a VAC Warning Message is displayed publicly on your profile if you get banned and that is a good thing.

But I guess it is too late for that now.

2.) Coop

Why do you guys not utilize the Steam Friends and Server Network to make Coop happen? The friends invite feature is such a useful one, I don't get it why you guys decided to go the complicated route where I have to search my friends match via the server browser. And then it is hosted locally anyway. So please, add this. It is really important to many Steam users. Don't believe me? Fine, run a survey or whatever, but please add it.

How it is now:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Telling friend the name of the server -> Friend searches the server -> joins or does not find it and you gotta explain how to find it for 10 minutes.

How it should be:

Chat with friend about playing Arma 3 -> Opening a game -> Click invite -> Friend clicks the invite and is in the game, ready to play.

Does that make sense?

3.) Workshop

This is more a suggestion for later, but please do integrate Workshop for missions and mods, it makes it much easier to download than to crawl through all those fansites or forums and suffer their advertising and signup requirements just to get a user made mission or mod.

4.) Achievements

Like it or not, Steam Achievements are a selling point on Steam. So please do integrate them. Not judging on this part though, too early to complain about it :). I am pretty sure they will be in there on release.

Just mentioning it.

This are my concerns regarding a release on Steam and I hope some of it gets heard.

1. VAC is horrible. BE is much better

2. I think they will make that work very soon

3. Workshop will also be implemented later

4. Does Arma 3 need achievements?

[maturin 12]

The ability to invite friends is vital.

[metalcraze 290]

Sorry, but that is not true. A lot of people get banned every wave and there is no such thing as bypassing VAC, even though some programs do claim they can.

You are wrong. VAC is also a lot worse than Battleye since VAC is general purpose and Battleye is custom tailored to ArmA needs.

Why do you guys not utilize the Steam Friends and Server Network to make Coop happen?

Because Steam will make zero difference to coop. For one Steam will not make the need to download and install mods manually / using external software go anywhere. Many modders will not post their stuff to Workshop and server admins won't share gigabytes of files on the same server they host the game on. Especially considering that some communities use modified/re-signed mods like UO.

Like it or not, Steam Achievements are a selling point on Steam. So please do integrate them.

No. Just no.

Edited May 30, 2013 by metalcraze

[maddogx 13]

I have no opinions on VAC one way or the other, but BattlEye has one distinct advantage here in that it has been tailored over the past years to suit Arma's "special needs" where scripting is concerned.

VAC and similar anti-cheat engines are designed specifically to detect aimbots, wallhacks and similar things, which is sufficient for most games - but the main problems in Arma are caused by the scripting engine. This is a set of issues that is entirely specific to Arma, and BE has evolved over the past years to block off some/most of the attack vectors that arise from them. VAC could not do the same without a great deal of work.

EDIT: damn ninjas again! ;)

[PuFu 4591]

1. because BE sort of developed around arma, while VAC is just too generic. from a server admin pov, i prefer be over vac, but some might have different opinions, which is all good.

2. that is indeed a neede feature. bis own mp browser is still ages behind most of todays mp game browsers. still lacks friends, fav server etc.

3. god forbid. the moment workshop will be implemented with the current form EULA, that is the moment i will (and most others i know) modding for arma for public use and keep evrything restricted to a limited number of people. i will never give my ip rights to a third party without a commercial gain.

4. what for? what would one achieve from those achievements? pun intended

[Mr. Charles 22]

There are already Achievements in the config files of the Alpha. So it isn't such a stretch to have them in the full game.

[dmarkwick 261]

Achievements. Really? My impression was that ArmA3 is marketed and rated for > 12 year-olds :)

However, I guess achievements are totally ignorable.

[Deadfast 43]

There are already Achievements in the config files of the Alpha. So it isn't such a stretch to have them in the full game.

There were achievements in the configs of Arma 2 as well. The distinct lack of any actual achievements in the game itself was very much appreciated :).

[gossamersolid 155]

Should not use ONE anti-cheat or the other, especially when they both have completely different uses.

VAC is meant to ban a steam account from ever playing that multiplayer game ever again. It's not an "active" anti-cheat, it does delayed bans. People can argue "but they'll just go buy another copy on the other account". Oh well, let them? There's nothing you can do to permanently stop anybody from cheating. You can deter them though.

BE on the other hand isn't good for long term (people are spoofing GUIDs easily if you visit the usual places). BE is good on the other hand for keeping the dumbest script kiddies out as well as providing us some RCON for our servers.

Bottom line, use both.

For the server browser, I hope for final release that it integrates steam features in it such as inviting friends to servers or joining on friend's servers. Favourites and a history tab would be much appreciated as well.

[metalcraze 290]

Achievements. Really? My impression was that ArmA3 is marketed and rated for > 12 year-olds :)

However, I guess achievements are totally ignorable.

Not ignorable if they reward stupid stuff. Like "shoot 100 seagulls" which was in ArmA config since forever and I think even was available there for ArmA1 or 2 steam version

And I've yet to see a single game where achievements weren't rewarding either something very trivial or something very stupid.

And "reward" is a strong word here. I remember when they just came to Steam years ago I thought you'd get some free games / content stuff from Steam for getting them. I mean it's called an 'achievement' - something you supposedly gotta work to achieve. And as it turned out they are just crappy 128x128 images often awarded for breaking the game for other people in MP by doing actions that require no brain and any kind of effort.

Edited May 30, 2013 by metalcraze

[scorcher24 10]

Many modders will not post their stuff to Workshop and server admins won't share gigabytes of files on the same server they host the game on.

Then I personally won't bother with those mods.

Sounds harsh, but thats how it is. I won't install SixUpdater ever again. BI needs to ease up the mod installation and automate it and all is set.

And btw, people said this about Skyrim too, now look at the Workshop :).

@Achievements

If they are well done they can add to a game. That is all I say about it.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Then I personally won't bother with those mods.

Sounds harsh, but thats how it is. I won't install SixUpdater ever again. BI needs to ease up the mod installation and automate it and all is set.

And btw, people said this about Skyrim too, now look at the Workshop :).

.

Then you should go through this topic where several major addon makers gave their point of view about workshop : http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?148879-ARMA-III-amp-Steam-WORKSHOP&highlight=workshop

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

When I start ArmA3 Steam obviously works in the background, but I don't see any of it. ArmA 3 is the first and only game I own on Steam. I deactivated all its features the minute a friend explained that I have this option.

Re: Anti cheat:

I don't know anything about the tech side of the game. If the experts agree that BE is good enough I won't miss VAC.

Re: Coop

Why should I use the social features? In all the forums I use, people can PM me or send me emails. When I'm at my gaming PC I receive these messages and quickly switch on Teamspeak, when I'm not I can't play anyway. I think that too many different platforms which all have to be checked for news and messages, take too much time. What exactly is the benefit of Steam's social features? By the way, before typing this I had switched on Steam to take a look at it and I found three friendship messages from people I don't know. Or maybe I know them but they use different nicknames on Steam and elsewhere. Now I could ask these people who they are and then decide to accept or decline their offer of friendship and then I will have a few more icons in my Steam thing. Of course I will be notified everytime they purchase a new game and even when they are online. Is this necessary?

Re: Workshop

If the main modders boycott Workshop because they fear for their ownership rights, I will respect this. I am not a modder but I read Valve's small print. I can always download my stuff from Armaholic or through SIX. There are little helpers which make the download from SIX comfortable.

Re: Achievements

I don't really know what these achievements are. If we talk about virtual medals awarded for so many hours of gameplay or something similar I can live perfectly well without Achievements. My achievement is surviving a challenging mission without respawn, that's good enough for me.

The enormous amount of ads throughout the Steam service is extremely annoying because I found it hard to find something relevant. Perhaps if you use Steam often you will learn which areas of the screen you can ignore, but for me it easier to ignore Steam alltogether.

[daze23 1]

Not ignorable if they reward stupid stuff.

how does that make them "not ignorable"?

turn off the steam overlay and you'll never see them

[metalcraze 290]

And btw, people said this about Skyrim too, now look at the Workshop :).

Great multiplayer game example there

how does that make them "not ignorable"?

turn off the steam overlay and you'll never see them

Who? People grinding for those achievements instead of playing the game?

[Smurf 12]

Here we go again.....

IMO:

VAC alongside with BE would be good.

Steam's server browser MUST be in. Then you can use the friend list to invite someone, find people or schedule a match easier. Or not, don't have use it.

Don't think the Workshop thing would fit in ArmA style of doing things.

Anchievs - Don't care, get surprised when I unlock one of them, specially if they're kind of crazy.

[daze23 1]

Who? People grinding for those achievements instead of playing the game?

how does that affect you?

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------

I think the workshop would be cool for just simple scenarios made in the editor

[Simas 12]

Sorry if I missed this in the discussion, but what about the Steam Cloud? One could sync entire profile data using this.

By the way, there are a bunch of references to Steam Workshop already in the Alpha configs/data.

[Harzach 2507]

how does that affect you?

The "achievement" system is nothing more than a hollow mechanic used to prolong gameplay. It adds no value to a game, tending to shift the focus away from PTFO and toward empty aspirational nonsense like "gotta get my 5000 kills with the MXM!"

[nik21 1]

1.) Anti Cheat

Why use BattleEye ( I don't know any other game that uses it btw ) when you can use VAC? On Steam VAC is well known and a great tool for server admins. It is not meant to kick cheaters, it is meant to track them and then get rid of them in ban waves, which has obviously advantages such as hack authors not being able to adapt to new methods of detection quickly. It also does not require cd keys which can be stolen and then misused like it happened with DayZ in the past. A well administrated server is always better than one where the admins don't care about, so it does not make a difference on that end, but a VAC Warning Message is displayed publicly on your profile if you get banned and that is a good thing.

But I guess it is too late for that now.

Oh yeah, a "great tool" for server admins (the only option you have as a server admin is on or off). VAC does not offer ANY admin tools, on the other hand BattlEye offers a whole lot of them, e.g. Rcon administration, ping limit, Kick & Ban GUID, Custom Script detection etc etc...

Not only that BattlEye is superior to VAC in any way regarding cheat detection, it also covers exploits and is very customized for Arma's scripting engine.

VAC and similar anti-cheat engines are designed specifically to detect aimbots, wallhacks and similar things, which is sufficient for most games - but the main problems in Arma are caused by the scripting engine.

BE detects all kinds of cheats, the ones you mentoined as well, mostly a lot faster and more efficient than other AC's - plus the customization in Regards to Arma's scripting stuff.

4.) Achievements

Bullshit.

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

VAC is meant to ban a steam account from ever playing that multiplayer game ever again. It's not an "active" anti-cheat, it does delayed bans. People can argue "but they'll just go buy another copy on the other account". Oh well, let them? There's nothing you can do to permanently stop anybody from cheating. You can deter them though.

BE on the other hand isn't good for long term (people are spoofing GUIDs easily if you visit the usual places). BE is good on the other hand for keeping the dumbest script kiddies out as well as providing us some RCON for our servers.

You can not spoof the BE GUID. The problem in Arma 2 OA is that cheaters are supplied with stolen CD-Keys at extremely low prices which reduces the effectiveness of BE bans drasticially. This problem is gone with Arma 3 + Steam, since the game is linked to the Steam account, a BE Ban does have THE SAME effect as a VAC ban (with the difference that a BE ban is not publicy displayed, that doesen't matter though). If a cheater is banned by BE in Arma 3, he has to re-buy Arma 3 on another Steam account in order to play again on BE-protected servers. Also, see above...

[daze23 1]

The "achievement" system is nothing more than a hollow mechanic used to prolong gameplay. It adds no value to a game, tending to shift the focus away from PTFO and toward empty aspirational nonsense like "gotta get my 5000 kills with the MXM!"

they could make the achievements single player only. a few games already do that

it seems most people that are serious about this game don't play random missions, with random players, on random servers. and if they do, I hope they expect their teammates might be going for kills over the 'objective'