Disable error output

[StrongHarm 13]

Hello,

I have some scripting errors in a mission I'm trying to get rid of. The errors aren't really interfering with the mission, so I'd like to disable the scripting error output that occurs at the mid left section of the screen during play, until I can get to the bottom of the issue. Is this possible?

[killzone_kid 1326]

used to be possible now it is mandatory, for the alpha anyway.

[KevsNoTrev 44]

Hey, StrongHarm - try posting them here and the community can help to fix them, it may be quite simple. It may be involved, but at least you will know if its possible.

[StrongHarm 13]

It wasn't the script, it was my values.. I had ["location",1],1] instead of ["location"],1]

Thanks

[moricky 210]

As you can see, locating and fixing an error is often very quick process.

As for disabling the errors completely, let me re-post my comment from the feedback tracker:

The only way how to get rid of scripting errors is to fix them, hiding them is not a policy we'd like to promote.

- If the error is present in an official content, create a new issue in the tracker and mention basic reproduction steps leading to the error (which mission, how to play it, etc.)

- If the problem is in your own mission, it's your responsibility to locate and fix it. The text should help you locate which part of code is broken.

- If the error occurs in community content, its author is to blame. Contact him and let him know about it. Mission author is mentioned in the loading screen; additionally, server admin(s) might provide further details.

[.kju 3239]

Hardly anyone sets the author. Not that it would help much.

A mail address or some profile (URL) would be at least be needed for such system to work.

Nor is it realistic to expect that authors fix their mission after getting a report,

nor anyone, especially not server admins, to take the time to bother about it.

You should simply upload (BI content) errors automatically to a logging server.

In the meantime you should at least offer a way to disable on screen error display again.

[killzone_kid 1326]

I agree with .kju, .rpt is enough for production version. On screen script errors should be enabled by default and have option to hide them -hideOnScreenErrors

[KevsNoTrev 44]

maybe Moricky is hoping this will raise the standard of custom missions by not having any errors in them when released......

I can hope, not sure how many hours I have spent fixing scripts so the missions runs all the way through without a single error. missed a lot of gaming time too.

[][niipaa 11]

Rather than post a new thread, I'd rather Necro this one, because what I am posting is very relevant. I'd love to hear an updated response about this issue, because since at least ArmA 1, we've had the option to choose if Script Errors are shown. I can't agree more with .kju, because I understand wanting to encourage others to learn and make better content, but you shouldn't be forcing it. There's a big difference between those words friend. And now with the new patch, where everything is an undefined variable, in scripts that ran, functioned, and operated perfectly before, the screen in almost any community mission is a jumble of black.

I personally don't feel it's fair to cram this mentality on to others. Sure, the responsibility is there, but you shouldn't be forcing others to suffer until something miniscule gets fixed. If this is the true mentality behind BI now, I think that might be where I call it quits. You already have my money, I know I won't be missed, but this is just not something I'm proud to support if this how it is. Games should be about encouragement, learning, AND choice. You'd be encouraging hiding errors if you left them off by default and didn't let others know about a command to show them. Every game since OFP/ArmA has had the option, why the change in mentality now?

Edited July 27, 2013 by ][Niipaa

[StrongHarm 13]

My first impression was that forced debug output was intrusive. I've changed my mind. To Moricky's point, if I'd had the option of just killing the error I would never have fixed it. As a result of the error I did fix the issue to get rid of the error if nothing else. We end users do need to be saved from ourselves! :)

[][niipaa 11]

I'm glad that extra push (Read force) helped you with your script, I am. But my problem still stands twofold with it.

1. The Scripting language has been changed, meaning a lot of scripts and scripters, new and old, skilled and novice, are now having problems that weren't there before.

2. "We end users do need to be saved from ourselves!" - I question this a lot. Because it's your choice how lazy or not lazy one wants to be. If you yourself don't have the drive to fix your problem, that is on you, no one else should be forced under the same umbrella for that. Not every script is having the same issue. And some players, those who don't script, or create addons, or missions, just want to play regardless of scripts. Believing that suddenly people contacting authors is going to get things fixed is blind ignorance. We have the forums for those kind of reports. And there's a good chance that script makers, mission makers, and addon makers already know, because a lot of them DO leave on script errors for debugging and creating. I know I did in ArmA 1/2/OA. But now that I'm forced to, when I just want to play a mission and I'm still being slapped in the face with errors, even though things work, I consider that pretty lame.

In closing, as I stated, this kind of mentality isn't something I stand behind. We all have our morals, our beliefs, in how things should be done. And as such, we stand for them when they're under fire. This new direction from BI comes as a shock to me, because for the past 4 titles, from OFP to ArmA 2 OA, we had a choice. Suddenly we don't deserve one anymore? It's just not something I feel comfortable with, and it seems like this is how it always starts. Something small and mundane like script errors being forced on, and it just goes from there.

But hey, this is my opinion and surely I'm wrong. I'd just love to see some word on this at some point. I'm not trying argue or start a flame war here, if I was I'd be screaming obscenities through text and being childish. I'd like to think I'm presenting myself semi-professionally.

[genesis92x 810]

My problem with the most update is that it creates errors where there were none. Just because BI calls it an error, doesn't mean it is. If a script runs perfectly well, works just fine, and is optimized, why do I need a spam of undefined variables? For the average mission creator, this update was not a big deal. However, for mission creators that have missions crammed full of scripts and features, it's annoying to have to go back and "fix" what wasn't broken in the first place. I've spent almost 3 full days fixing issues instead of implementing new ideas/features. A lot of these aren't even issues in my own scripts but other commonly used scripts.

Why does this make scripts better? I've had to add lines to just check if a variable exists or not. Increasing file size AND increasing the # of codes the server has to go through. Less code is supposed to be more efficient, right? Getting more done, with less.

tl;dr : If it isn't broken. Don't fix it.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

tl;dr : If it isn't broken. Don't fix it.

It was broken, it still is broken, fix it. You were just not told it was broken before, now you are.

[][niipaa 11]

Broken in my mind means not working.

I guess we understand broken differently.

[genesis92x 810]

It was broken, it still is broken, fix it. You were just not told it was broken before, now you are.

I appreciate the post, but the fact is, the scripts run just fine. I just get to enjoy fixing undefined variable spam. Did you read my post? Or just the tl;dr?

Anyway, I voiced my opinion and I'm not sticking around to see if this turns into a big flame fest!

[Deadfast 43]

[Niipaa;2450550']because since at least ArmA 1' date=' we've had the option to choose if Script Errors are shown....Every game since OFP/ArmA has had the option, why the change in mentality now?[/quote']

That's incorrect. Every game up to Arma 2 showed script errors with no option to turn them off. It was only in A2 where they were initially completely removed and we had to beg for -showScriptErrors.

tl;dr : If it isn't broken. Don't fix it.

Or in this case, If I can flip a switch and pretend it isn't broken, don't fix it.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

[Niipaa;2451311']Broken in my mind means not working.

I guess we understand broken differently.

A wheel is still a wheel even if there is no air in the tire, it will still roll, but it doesn't mean you should drive your car with no air in your tires.

[][niipaa 11]

Alright, well, since I guess I'm just bonkers, I'm not going to keep playing the role "Trying to prove a point". I'll leave out on this note, just so that I know I'm not insane:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147613-MP-COOP-Urban-Conquest-for-Arma-III&p=2446459&viewfull=1#post2446459

Sorry I had an opinion, or preferred to "flip the switch and watch the game play happen". Apologize for your time gentlemen, carry on.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

[Niipaa;2451319']Alright' date=' well, since I guess I'm just bonkers, I'm not going to keep playing the role "Trying to prove a point". I'll leave out on this note, just so that I know I'm not insane:

[url']http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147613-MP-COOP-Urban-Conquest-for-Arma-III&p=2446459&viewfull=1#post2446459[/url]

Sorry I had an opinion, or preferred to "flip the switch and watch the game play happen". Apologize for your time gentlemen, carry on.

Look, it's simple, you're complaining that you can't turn off ALL script errors. And Raws is saying something that you don't seem to understand (but in fact it supports what we're saying) yet you blindly quote as if it validates your dramatic behavior and signature.

The reason -showScriptErrors is being forced on is because you're in the beta stage where errors showing up is good so they can be reported and fixed, it will probably return to being off by default when the game launches and you'll once again opt-in for errors with the launch switch. Or a better option would be -hideScriptErrors so you're saying with intent: "Yes i know something is wrong but I don't want to be notified about that"

If it wasn't the case, we'd probably end up with something like Arma 2 German release, where BI "hotfixed" the errors by hiding them all together as Deadfast says. It was still a broken game, but the errors didn't show so the illusion was created that everything is working fine. Master stroke of sweeping the issues under the rug, which is obviously not desirable anymore as they've changed their attitude towards that as you can see by Moricky's post. If they always had the errors for undefined variables and if the errors were never hidden in the attempts to hide their own broken script work, we'd never have this issue in the first place, but you know, hindsight is a bitch and it's good and commendable that they've changed their attitude.

This has become a "huge issue" because there is so much community content that was relying on the quirks of the engine in regards to undefined variables. This is probably due to the lack of knowledge where everything appeared to be working fine, but had a flaw which was not noticed or simply the author made a typo or the game never told him and he never realized there was a problem, but instead, the engine used to silently swallow and then did it's own thing. Most complains we're getting is the first case of people bitching because suddenly BIS has broken someone elses content and not for a second considering the fact that it was broken before.

This behavior benefits people who know what they're doing and actually writing scripts or maintaining their old scripts. It also benefits people who are just learning to write scripts or who want to improve their scripting knowledge and understanding.

It certainly doesn't benefit people who copypasta pieces of code in their missions without any understanding or will to do so then throw tantrums at BIS as if they've committed mass murder.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[.kju 3239]

Its next to pointless to show errors to users ON SCREEN.

Users can already submit logs (rpt) to authors of missions and addons.

By default no errors should be shown on screen - it is only meaningful for developers.

[][niipaa 11]

Guess I lied, since I'm a sucker for speaking my mind. Look Sniperwolf, if I came off as "dramatic" or throwing a tantrum then fine, I didn't think I was. Clearly I was though, I mean, I didn't announce a single obscenity, nor did I bash on BI, or any of that. I simply requested some kind of clarification, or what have you, and stated why I believe what I believe. BI made the game, they have the right to whatever, and I'm entitled to nothing, nor do I act it. All I stated what was I believe in, and how I felt about the current state of affairs. If you'd read further down what I quoted, there were others asking for the option to turn them off. But if it's easier for you to talk down to others for speaking their mind, then that's fine too. I may have lied about being done with this, but I won't lie, when I say I'm done being talked down to like some child, because you clearly think you are better than others, when they have differing opinions on how something should be handled.

Not to mention the nice assumption that anyone who believes this system is confusing or wrong, is clearly not a "script maker or mission maker". And just copy pastes all of other's hard work. That's nice, that's very nice. I guess the hundreds of things I've written since ArmA mean nothing, nor the missions, nor anything. Because I had a complaint.

Even if those who disagree with you are mis-informed, inform them like they're an equal human being, not the scum under your boot. Though again, sorry for throwing a tantrum.

I'd like to thank you for showing me why I don't come around here anymore. Because even when I try to compose myself, no matter how hard one tries to be civil, if you're even little off about something you get chewed up and torn down.

In a tl;dr - I'm sorry I resurrected this, sorry for my actions, I wish I had just heard "It will be allowed or bettered after Beta long ago". Honestly, I'm all for a Debug/Dev console as you suggest below this post. I was actually talking to my friend about that as a solution.

Edited July 28, 2013 by ][Niipaa
Didn't want to make a new post.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

;2451368']Its next to pointless to show errors to users ON SCREEN.

Users can already submit logs (rpt) to authors of missions and addons.

By default no errors should be shown on screen - it is only meaningful for developers.

If we had a proper ingame error console' date=' something like in the Quake or Source engines, that we could easily open, I'd agree with you. Right now in the current state, checking for errors in the RPT while also trying to playtest the mission would be cumbersome.

Something like an openable ingame console where non-critical errors would be sent would also remove the need for the "-showScriptErrors" launch switches as it would migrate the display to a non-interfering area and as a developer you could open it with a keypress.

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

[Niipaa;2451372']Guess I lied' date=' since I'm a sucker for speaking my mind. Look Sniperwolf, if I came off as "dramatic" or throwing a tantrum then fine, I didn't think I was. Clearly I was though, I mean, I didn't announce a single obscenity, nor did I bash on BI, or any of that. I simply requested some kind of clarification, or what have you, and stated why I believe what I believe. BI made the game, they have the right to whatever, and I'm entitled to nothing, nor do I act it. All I stated what was I believe in, and how I felt about the current state of affairs. If you'd read further down what I quoted, there were others asking for the option to turn them off. But if it's easier for you to talk down to others for speaking their mind, then that's fine too. I may have lied about being done with this, but I won't lie, when I say I'm done being talked down to like some child, because you clearly think you are better than others, when they have differing opinions on how something should be handled.

Not to mention the nice assumption that anyone who believes this system is confusing or wrong, is clearly not a "script maker or mission maker". And just copy pastes all of other's hard work. That's nice, that's very nice. I guess the hundreds of things I've written since ArmA mean nothing, nor the missions, nor anything. Because I had a complaint.

Even if those who disagree with you are mis-informed, inform them like they're an equal human being, not the scum under your boot. Though again, sorry for throwing a tantrum.

I'd like to thank you for showing me why I don't come around here anymore. Because even when I try to compose myself, no matter how hard one trys to be civil, if you're even little off about something you get chewed up and torn down.[/quote']

Just no, don't try to paint the picture you're attempting to paint. In the same post you quote, I've explained very clearly what's going on, why it is going on and what you can reasonably expect to happen in the future. I even gave you a simple analogy in the post before that anyone can understand, to which you reacted as if I said "you're an idiot, go away" and now you're doing it again.

I'm sorry if you find yourself being offended by me, that is not my intention as I'm not referring to you specifically even tho I'm replying to your post. I'm merely saying that the reaction on the forum in general is "My script/the script i put in is throwing errors now, put it back, put it back, put it back!" without any other thought. As you can see, I agree that the errors should not be displayed in such a way, but only if we're not screwing over and making it harder for people who are actually making the content to do so. But I'm annoyed by the fact that people are reacting to this like someone who's crying about seeing blood on their finger even tho it doesn't hurt or is their own blood at all.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[r.flagg 11]

Most complains we're getting is the first case of people bitching...

people are reacting to this like someone who's crying ...

It certainly doesn't benefit people who copypasta pieces of code in their missions without any understanding or will to do so then throw tantrums...

These are supposed to be helpful comments? Certainly aren't friendly.

Since when is it considered something to look down your nose and sneer at when somebody (Like Me) copy/pastes pieces of code into my mission w/o understanding of how they work? Are you suggesting that only those who write useful script addons are "supposed" to be the only ones who can enjoy the work of others? Because even I, as a lowly non-scripting commoner can tell you w/o a doubt, that you are wrong.

There are people on here who create wonderful bits 'o script, and generously share them with other players Knowing Full Well that many of those fellow Arma fans are not scripters, yet they share them anyway. These kind people very often even go the extra mile and generously donate their time and talent to help us mere humans implement their work correctly ( I could name names of superior examples, but considering the context of this discussion, I'm not going to bring anyone else into it in that manner).

I -and many others- are always grateful for their help, I thank them for their help, I try to make sure they know they are appreciated. And - most of the time at least- everyone is happy (far as I know). It's a wonderful arrangement that is a big part of what makes this game/community a kick-ass place to hang.

Sure, there are times when some of the most generous folks out there poke and prod at us mere humans into learning how to script, and fix our issues ourselves, but the best of them do it with a lot more class and kindness than you have shown in those posts I just quoted.

I am not embarrased that I don't write code, I have no intention of learning, and I'm still going to continue to enjoy the kind generosity of those who are willing to generate the stuff, and share it with others. If I have questions, I try to solve it myself. If I can't, I'll ask. But if these folks don't feel like answering - I let it go and move on. ( case in point - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159164-Script-broken-in-latest-updates-Automatic-3rd-Person-View-In-Vehicles) I'm not here to "bitch" or "cry" or "throw tantrums" if I don't get every single little thing I want. Hell, I'll even buy supporter edition to 'do my part' to help things move along.

But I'm also not going to be intimidated by someone looking down their nose at me.

If it's truly not your intention to offend, I would like to respectfully suggest you reconsider your wording (and/or attitude/outlook).

;2451368']Its next to pointless to show errors to users ON SCREEN.

Users can already submit logs (rpt) to authors of missions and addons.

By default no errors should be shown on screen - it is only meaningful for developers.

Agreed. As yet another day goes by w/o me playing the game I love. :(

[Sniperwolf572 758]

These are supposed to be helpful comments? Certainly aren't friendly.

Since when is it considered something to look down your nose and sneer at when somebody (Like Me) copy/pastes pieces of code into my mission w/o understanding of how they work? Are you suggesting that only those who write useful script addons are "supposed" to be the only ones who can enjoy the work of others? Because even I, as a lowly non-scripting commoner can tell you w/o a doubt, that you are wrong.

There are people on here who create wonderful bits 'o script, and generously share them with other players Knowing Full Well that many of those fellow Arma fans are not scripters, yet they share them anyway. These kind people very often even go the extra mile and generously donate their time and talent to help us mere humans implement their work correctly ( I could name names of superior examples, but considering the context of this discussion, I'm not going to bring anyone else into it in that manner).

I -and many others- are always grateful for their help, I thank them for their help, I try to make sure they know they are appreciated. And - most of the time at least- everyone is happy (far as I know). It's a wonderful arrangement that is a big part of what makes this game/community a kick-ass place to hang.

Sure, there are times when some of the most generous folks out there poke and prod at us mere humans into learning how to script, and fix our issues ourselves, but the best of them do it with a lot more class and kindness than you have shown in those posts I just quoted.

I am not embarrased that I don't write code, I have no intention of learning, and I'm still going to continue to enjoy the kind generosity of those who are willing to generate the stuff, and share it with others. If I have questions, I try to solve it myself. If I can't, I'll ask. But if these folks don't feel like answering - I let it go and move on. ( case in point - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159164-Script-broken-in-latest-updates-Automatic-3rd-Person-View-In-Vehicles) I'm not here to "bitch" or "cry" or "throw tantrums" if I don't get every single little thing I want. Hell, I'll even buy supporter edition to 'do my part' to help things move along.

But I'm also not going to be intimidated by someone looking down their nose at me.

If it's truly not your intention to offend, I would like to respectfully suggest you reconsider your wording (and/or attitude/outlook).

I agree and your comments towards what I wrote are justified, even tho you've taken them out of context my choice of words there was awfully poor. Unfortunately what's been said in the heat of the moment is out there and there's no point in trying to sweep away what I said.

You have to note here that I'm not saying anything against contributing members of our community or the novice scripter or mission maker, I'm specifically talking about those who go "BIS has broken my work and I'll sit here with my arms crossed cursing in their direction until this is reversed as I refuse to admit or learn about what's going on, why is it happening or how can I fix this myself". I wish I could find a post that I ran across this morning that shows this perfectly.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Sniperwolf572