Terrorist attack in London - Soldier killed with machete

[Beagle 684]

Absolutely typical Britain! Knowing the current justice system, the perps will probably be sentenced to 40 hours of community service + write a letter of apology to the victim's family :rolleyes:

this is pure polemic nonsense and you know it.

[dmarkwick 261]

It's a terrible event and I feel for the victim & his family.

But, calling this a "terrorist attack" is giving them too much credit IMO. They're just two knobheads who have committed a crime for not much reason.

[mrcash2009 0]

They're just two knobheads who have committed a crime for not much reason.

Quite right DM. I saw this broadcast on news sites as terror attack ... then when I looked at actually what happened it was a very conflicting claim, for one thing they targeted a symbol of their hatred that being the army officer, and if you look at videos etc they had no intention to attack anyone else, that was 20 mins (City of london, highest amount of cameras & police, high population and witnesses to phone police ... ??) of standing around mainly. If this was a terror attack, surely they would have gone for anyone else and as many as possible and used something more damaging like the gun they had?

It wasn't so much a terror attack as a cold blooded target murder with people stood around thinking WTF have you done? While they stood around explaining & waiting for the police to arrive. The image of the phrase "terror attack" and the actual events dont really match apart from political angles in terms of inflicting as much "terror" as possible. It doesn't condone what they did or how mixed up they were as to what action they took (awful), just in reference to the "terror attack" badge. If you took that one hour of time, got all reports of killing and events whithin that 1 hour of the entire planet ... the numbers, events, and so on would put it into perspective for sure.

But what did happen ... drudge up of 9/11 ... IRA ... limp and jumpy phantom Al-Qaeda links .. terror manuals, online security, extremism ... race debates ... Then you had Cameron being the largest hypocrite spewing "they will never divide us" ... thanks for that "Mr big Society" you prat, he bats for a team all about divide and rule, laughable to see them come out to camera and do their bit.

One of the worst things on news last night was a whole section on this & Cameron moments, right after it went to a piece in ref to drone killings and so on. Was a bit like watching a diet programme and the ad break was full of coke adverts. I also saw a section where locals of community were talking at the location, they spoke to a chap in ref to Al-Qaeda links that he had talks with or may know of links to ... while going through this "sort of maybe, not saying it is, kind of - could have" location piece he mentioned Al-Qaeda groups using Twitter ... it was at this stage I nearly spat my entire mug of tea over my cat. I just thought back to riots in London and twitter use and police raiding them and arresting very quick afterwards .. but Al Queda folk use it ... not quite sure if its some kind of in-joke or not to be honest.

Biggest thing im focusing on at the moment is the think tank debate about "more security at street level" and what comes in from the back of this esp the poor response time and what's introduced to stop that.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mrcash2009

[jw custom 56]

They're just two knobheads who have committed a crime for not much reason.

I have words for those mentally disturbed people that i sadly can't use around here...

[jefferspang 2]

this is pure polemic nonsense and you know it.

No shit? In case anyone else doesn't know, I wasn't being serious.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

But, calling this a "terrorist attack" is giving them too much credit IMO. They're just two knobheads who have committed a crime for not much reason.

I'm sure you've seen the video of the perpetrators explaining their reasons for attacking Dmr Rigby, and describing how they intended the attack to coerce the government into immediately withdrawing British military operations abroad, with the threat that if the government does not comply there will be further attacks carried out. Historically, that's pretty much what defines an act of terrorism.

For the past decade or so it it has been a stated aim of several groups on the UK's list of 'Proscribed terror groups or organisations' to conduct an attack of the exact nature in which Dmr Rigby was killed, and people have been caught and convicted under terrorism legislation in recent years for planning such attacks on different individuals. As such, it doesn't at all seem unreasonable to classify it as an act of terrorism, especially with the accompanying statement of intent from the perpetrators.

It's rather counter-intuitive to define acts of terrorism simply based on the scale of loss of life resulting from such attacks when there have been several high-profile attacks by organised terrorist groups in the past that resulted in zero loss of life, and were planned and conducted with no intention of causing mass casualties; only the ultimate achievement of the group's ideological goals.

However, I suppose nowadays, as a result of the 'GWOT', society has a rather confused idea of where the definition lies between terrorism, insurgency, and simply murder.

[.Taffy 10]

A friend just linked me a video posted by a user named "HotViralNews" on YouTube of the moment that armed police arrive. It is shot from some high vantage point and shows the perpetrators immiediatly running towards the police vehicle, shooting. Officers inside the vehicle shoot at least one of the suspects whilst still in their seats, such is the speed the whole incident unfolds. I won't link to the video as I am sure it would break forum rules. If anyone really wishes to see it, i doubt it will be difficult to find, so long as it remains up on YouTube.

[mrcash2009 0]

Yep seems they wanted to be shot dead by officers, who didn't grant them the wish.

As regards political things off the back of this ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22652051

Woolwich: Boris Johnson finds Data Bill 'compelling'

Boris Johnson has added his voice to suggestions the Communications Data Bill could be revived following the murder of soldier Lee Rigby.

But Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg blocked the change, insisting storing records of internet use for a year and allowing police and security service access to a vast "treasure trove" of information was neither workable nor proportionate.

Edited May 24, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

A friend just linked me a video posted by a user named "HotViralNews" on YouTube of the moment that armed police arrive. It is shot from some high vantage point and shows the perpetrators immiediatly running towards the police vehicle, shooting. Officers inside the vehicle shoot at least one of the suspects whilst still in their seats, such is the speed the whole incident unfolds. I won't link to the video as I am sure it would break forum rules. If anyone really wishes to see it, i doubt it will be difficult to find, so long as it remains up on YouTube.

:popcornsmilie: Those hollow-points really do bite don't they!!? Nice rag-doll action. Well done the boys n girls in blue!

[slatts 1978]

2 things that I worry about that are being skipped over, not in terms of us but others in general

Number 1, no news channel should have aired his "statement" it shouldn't have been shown to stop more men being encouraged to do this.

2, The first thing people do when they see two men with meat cleavers butchering a man in the middle of the street is take out their phones, not to call police, but to record it and slap it on youtube. <sidenote> However the footage of them being shot is rather satisfying to watch in a fucked up way</sidenote>

[JdB 151]

Not entirely sure why people feel the urge to start shouting when they hear gunshots, especially when it's so blatantly obvious where the shots are coming from and that they are not actually in danger of getting hurt ...

Nice shooting, first two rounds fired from an ackward firing position at a virtually point blank running target without killing the guy :cool:

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Not entirely sure why people feel the urge to start shouting when they hear gunshots, especially when it's so blatantly obvious where the shots are coming from and that they are not actually in danger of getting hurt ...

Watch another video - the old lady with the shrill voice is screaming something like "Shoot the b**tard again!". She isn't panicking at all, most others are cheering on the police, loudest voices are the police shouting at suspects and telling people to move back, London just isn't Jihadist friendly at any level lol.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[Beagle 684]

Watch another video - the old lady with the shrill voice is screaming something like "Shoot the b**tard again!". She isn't panicking at all, most others are cheering on the police, loudest voices are the police shouting at suspects and telling people to move back, London just isn't Jihadist friendly at any level lol.

The whole of Europe is not very muslim friendly in general for quite a while...The propaganda seeds have grown strong now. As you might know we had a little terror cell in germany that killed turkish people unmolested by the security forces despite beeing watched by the BND as notorious Nazis. This dagger has two edges but we tend to be blind to the side "our" terrorist use. like the onesd above or US soldiers going on a private killing spree in Afghanistan or Iraq. You have to see cases like this in London connected to such as this one.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/13/us-soldier-charged-with-killing-16-afghan-civilians-to-get-sanity-review/

So...he's just insane...o.k. all is well again.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Beagle

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

You have to see cases like this in London connected to such as this one.

Very true - it's all insanity at one level or another. I have met a few extremists of various kinds over the years and that is the one thing they have in common. There is an inability to think logically and objectively and the strange habit of forming a hatred against certain groups or races when in reality all people are different. I once asked an Egyptian engineer just how he imagined his cunning plan to kill every Jew in Israel was actually going to work (in the days before 9/11 they used to discuss it openly) - he didn't reply lol. Either he didn't want to give away trade secrets or he actually hadn't thought that far, from his blank look I suspect it was the latter. There is no internal audit with these guys, no self criticism, which would straighten most normal people out.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[scrim 1]

Beagle: Way to go derailing a thread and being jihadi apologetic about it. There's a damn big difference between a single group of Nazis that kill a bunch of people in the dark (serial killers, not terrorists), and the dozens, if not up to around hundreds of jihadi plots that have been foiled, and those that unfortunately weren't. And a guy who is mentally unstable and kills people because of that is a mass murderer, not a terrorist, so stop making us look as bad as those animals from Woolwhich, and other places.

[mrcash2009 0]

Number 1, no news channel should have aired his "statement" it shouldn't have been shown to stop more men being encouraged to do this.

A little bit of reverse psychology thrown in, I agree on this.

Some other interesting titbits of info:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

Woolwich attack: MI5 'offered job to suspect

Abu Nusaybah: "They (MI5) asked him if he'd be interested in working for them"

MI5 asked Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebolajo if he wanted to work for them about six months before the killing, a childhood friend has said.

Could this be a case of known and agitating someone? I hope a clearer picture of this "divide us" Cameron comment gets looked into from all sides.

Sorry to highlight this as its not a fun part of the topic: I still see this "beheading" statement too, but what I dont understand is a beheading is decapitation right? But why would a woman console and sit next to a headless body for 20 mins? I understand heavily injured to the point of ... but they still seem to stick with the main key wording.

Edited May 25, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

@mrCash - seen his tweets? Still think this guy isn't another babbling nutcase (just look at the title!)?:

https://twitter.com/AbuNusaybahUK

Edited May 25, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[mrcash2009 0]

Still think this guy isn't another babbling nutcase (just look at the title!)?:

Whats that to do with what I posted, and how does that show I dont think he's unhinged?? I thought to be perfectly honest the obvious was obvious it didn't need a backup. But Im not focusing on the obvious.

If you read the article and all is said and done you dont piss off someone like him in that frame of mind unless your assisting in winding them up (the bugging me section). Everything has a starting point I dont just focus on the end result.

Edited May 25, 2013 by mrcash2009

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Whats that to do with what I posted.

Everything and nothing, it's obvious? PS where did you learn Yodic?

[mrcash2009 0]

Thanks, that's great input to what I asked. Your cheap retorts and silly off cuff snipe post is really useful to the topic.

Edited May 25, 2013 by mrcash2009

[katipo66 94]

Send them to Syria to fight alongside the good terrorists.

[.Taffy 10]

A 23 year old uniformed French soldier on patrol at a station in La Defense has been attacked by a knifeman. The identity of the attacker has not been confirmed. French authorities say that no connection has been mande with the London incident at this time, though there is the possibility that this is a copycat attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22669367

Edited May 26, 2013 by .Taffy

[mrcash2009 0]

Send them to Syria to fight alongside the good terrorists.

Too busy in Kenya some time back it seems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22673164

Woolwich murder probe: suspect Michael Adebolajo held in Kenya in 2010

A 23 year old uniformed French soldier on patrol at a station in La Defense has been attacked by a knifeman. The identity of the attacker has not been confirmed. French authorities say that no connection has been mande with the London incident at this time, though there is the possibility that this is a copycat attack.

Would bring more attention to this:

Number 1, no news channel should have aired his "statement" it shouldn't have been shown to stop more men being encouraged to do this.

I think authorities are trying to see if there are possible links still at the moment, or a cynic's view would say "find" :) But I just heard on rolling news its all being processed and checked out.

Edited May 26, 2013 by mrcash2009

[ProfTournesol 956]

A 23 year old uniformed French soldier on patrol at a station in La Defense has been attacked by a knifeman. The identity of the attacker has not been confirmed. French authorities say that no connection has been mande with the London incident at this time, though there is the possibility that this is a copycat attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22669367

Moreover the British attack looks like the Mohammed Merah shootings last year in France.

[scrim 1]

But... but, religion of peace...