Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[R3vo 2652]

Final point: Just because guns sound the same in real life does not mean sound designers (even for a simulation game) should not make them "cool" and give them character.

 

 

For me personally, that's more imporant than having "realistic" sound. I believe 90% of all players haven't heard a real gun anyways.

[andersson 285]

Thank you megagoth1702 for your last two posts. I listened to that video and it sounded so cool and fake. It's also true that overall weapons sounds very similar, a very loud bang. You can distinguish some weapons but the sound itself is the same, it's more from dB due to caliber and load and ofcourse the rate of fire in some cases.

 

edit: a few years ago I measured the dB from different suppressors on an AR15. The measurements were taken from shooters ear, different distances from the muzzle to the side, front-side and front. IF I can find that old USB stick and IF it's still alive I can post those values somewhere here on the forum. We also took measurements without suppressor and without muzzlebrake.

It has nothing to do with the sound as we only collected the dB, but can be interesting anyway.

[megagoth1702 251]

Thank you megagoth1702 for your last two posts. I listened to that video and it sounded so cool and fake. It's also true that overall weapons sounds very similar, a very loud bang. You can distinguish some weapons but the sound itself is the same, it's more from dB due to caliber and load and ofcourse the rate of fire in some cases.

 

edit: a few years ago I measured the dB from different suppressors on an AR15. The measurements were taken from shooters ear, different distances from the muzzle to the side, front-side and front. IF I can find that old USB stick and IF it's still alive I can post those values somewhere here on the forum. We also took measurements without suppressor and without muzzlebrake.

It has nothing to do with the sound as we only collected the dB, but can be interesting anyway.

Sure it's interesting. I always ask myself how quiter I should make silencer sounds compared to normal guns. Usually I go by feel but having data to back it up is nice. :)

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

EDIT: I don't know why this post has become so big but I am big on clearing up audio misconseptions so here is another one.

Erhm. Nope. These are ADVERTISEMENT videos. How can one think these are real recordings? The soundscape is designed from the ground up! I am 99.9% sure that not a single sound in these videos is from the actual gun shootings in the video. Not even the magazine-loading and the other foley. I mean it's ridiculous. First of all you don't see a single microphone in the shots. If this were a recording it would look like this, microphones and cables everywhere.

"But hey mega, they could have recorded the sounds somewhere else and put them in the video!"

I don't think so. What they did is they hired a sound designer to design the sound for the video (you have no idea how much money is in doing sound for ads) which is standard business when making ads. He then used good quality libraries and designed the sound of every and each shot. Pretty good job I must say, the sounds are sexy and punchy. But they are not from the guns fired in the video.

Again, listen carefully.

First video 0:18, listen to that rapid fire carefully with headphones. It's a LOOPED sound, easier to hear in the end of the burst. Also, I took the audio and counted around 89 shots in that burst. 89 bullets? In order to show that the clip you would have to re-use footage by recording it from different angles and then cutting in a smart way, which is what they did. But if the sound was "real" you would also hear changes in the audio - but you don't. Because the designer just took a great sounding burst sound and looped it at a certain point.

The 2nd video's pistol supressor, really? With that bassy low end? Also in slo-mo? And with that loud mechanics sound? Or the second video at 0:47, slow motion shots sounding like "real time"? I don't think so.

Nothing in this video is real but the visual material.

I agree though, the silenced weapons sound very sexy and it would be nice to have such things in Arma. For now the DynaSound sounds will have to do. ;)

Anyway. Since we are posting videos with cool sound design, check this.

A lot of those things you said are true. But I disagree with the fact they are false recordings. Why would I say that when all the evidence you provided is true? No proof of recordings? Well, because I've seen them fire live with their products. Of course those videos they posted were advertisements, designed to perfection. But if there's one sound I could relate to one of the silencers I've seen them use live, is the .45 silencer. It sounds close enough to what had come through the video camera during a live session, which I may add, was stunningly silent. These guys aren't your average joe YouTube editors who throw in a quick video game sound or two that end up being heavily compressed. (Even though the sounds probably got suppressed through YouTube anyway...) I'm pretty sure you can find them live firing in a vid or two somewhere.

I agree though, I'm fine with Dynasound and the Ls Soundscape mod for now, silenced sounds shouldn't be a priority. I'm actually more concerned about more important core sound engine changes that BI could be working on.

EDIT: On the note of the sound designer, I could imagine they took existing sounds used or recorded of their products, and beefed them up for the advertisement. I agree with that. The full Auto was also complete BS, I could easily tell, that was a crap ton of shots for something like that. The only shot I recognize was the Semi Auto .45, and it did sound beefed up. More punchy.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Sure it's interesting. I always ask myself how quiter I should make silencer sounds compared to normal guns. Usually I go by feel but having data to back it up is nice. :)

Is it possible to distance attenuate silenced guns differently than normal in Arma 3? So you could make with silencer and without be equal loud in first person but then in 100m the non-silenced is much louder? Not that it would be realistic but just curious is it possible?

[megagoth1702 251]

Is it possible to distance attenuate silenced guns differently than normal in Arma 3? So you could make with silencer and without be equal loud in first person but then in 100m the non-silenced is much louder? Not that it would be realistic but just curious is it possible?

Of course. At least that SHOULD be possible. Since silenced sounds will not travel as far as unsilenced ones the "distance" parameter will take care of that.

[gatordev 215]

Erhm. Nope. These are ADVERTISEMENT videos. How can one think these are real recordings?

 

Something to keep in mind is that every one of those sounds (assuming they're real...which they may be) is of a sub-sonic round (or the mic is specifically not picking up the sonic report of the round in the case of the 7.62).  A suppressor does a great job at reducing sound, and with ammo like a .45 which is already sub-sonic to begin with, it's going to sound much more "Hollywood" (like in the video) than other rounds.  I wouldn't be surprised if, in that video, all the 9mm guns they were shooting were using 147gr ammo, which is sub-sonic.

 

I think the confusion comes from those that haven't shot supersonic ammo and how there is two different sounds as a result of firing.  The first sound is of the "explosion" of the round, which the suppressor reduces greatly.  The second sound is of the bullet reaching a supersonic velocity (usually by the end of the barrel).  This is very loud and while it does NOT negate the tactical use of a suppressor, it doesn't make a weapon "quiet."  Add in a directional mic that only pics up the sound at the rifle (which I'm guessing is what's happening in the LAV video, as well, since he's shooting a supersonic 7n6 round), and you won't hear the "snap" of the round, only the "quiet" of the suppressed shot.

 

All that said, I have a Silencerco Octane 45K.  Shooting .300BO sub-sonic rounds, it's amazingly quiet, but even then, it's louder (there's a "crack" but not a "snap") than what they depict in that video.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

There's no sound for swimming. I just noticed this a few weeks ago but forgot to bring it up. It's kinda annoying, but less annoying, and more disorienting. Just hearing the underwater sound even though you're swimming above the water, and not hearing any swooshing with the arm motion takes away a large portion of feeling like you're actually in water in the game at all.

 

Second, the sound of the Cannon for APC's is great, now it just needs proper tails like rifles, but the tails need to be more present. Currently, tails are there, but feel absent. I believe this has already been mentioned though...

 

Also I'm still curious if there are any plans to update weapon tails from it's current iteration to something more 3D like that of what Laxemann is achieving with his live reverb, as it's an infinitely better technology. I'm curious because i know that the sound changes we have now were pretty much said to be placeholder and "tip of the iceberg".

[Maxzy 12]

So, what changes do you hear without looking into changelog (that is still absent)? =)) I, for one, can say that at last something was done to those annoying sonic cracks - they aren't all over the place like before. Previously i made some tests that showed that you can hear a crack from the bullet passing 100m away. I didn't check this time, but I guess it's audibility was reduced. Also something was made with attenuation too - distant fight in my test mission sounds different than it was day before. Am I imagining things? =)

[ImperialAlex 72]

ENGINE

• Added: Supersonic crack speed of sound speed simulation

From today's dev branch update. Any specifics? :)

[Brisse 78]

The supersonic crack speed of sound simulation sure made a difference for me. Before the update, it sounded unnatural. My brain knew the timing wasn't right, especially when I could hear both the crack and the weapon firing. The time delay between the two ended up being too long. Now that this is fixed, the soundscape of large battles suddenly sound a lot more natural to me.

[Maxzy 12]

In latest dev some weird sound coming from every weapon right before the actual shot sound. It's like soft "khmek", reminds me a sneezing cat =).

[Dwarden 1124]

In latest dev some weird sound coming from every weapon right before the actual shot sound. It's like soft "khmek", reminds me a sneezing cat =).

got video / recording of it ?

[bingo_fuel 10]

With the new supersonic crack changes I find it easier to get the direction to the sound source.

 

But I still have the problem that shooting a gun creates a strange noise in the left channel (when standing near other objects). It sounds like a distorted echo of the gun sound. I can upload a video if needed.

[Maxzy 12]

got video / recording of it ?

Although I restarted the game to check if it was still there (and it was) I cannot reproduce it after pc reboot =/.

[x3kj 1247]

Terrible clipping of tank engine sounds

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=20078

it has been with us far too long... :/

I'm still convinced that the bad controll design is the fault of this problem.

[megagoth1702 251]

Terrible clipping of tank engine sounds

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=20078

it has been with us far too long... :/

I'm still convinced that the bad controll design is the fault of this problem.

It is. Just look at the RPM values jumping around and - 15 forward gears? Jesus. But it's nothing the audio team can do anything about right now. :(

[x3kj 1247]

I can say that the Truck03 engine sounds, when put on a tank, do not have this clipping. I tried it and it actually sounds better then any other tank engine sound we have so far (ignoring the clipping). Not the most powerfull, but still better. But i'd rather see the base issue (controlls) fixed then some workaround audio fix.

[Electricleash 133]

Initial test of the new distance sound is pretty impressive.

[2nd ranger 282]

Everything is too quiet again though. Gunshots 50m away sound like they're 500m away. Also, some sounds are missing, like footsteps on grass. I also had my own gunshots become silent when I was in close proximity to a few other guys firing. Sonic cracks sound awesome though. And the actual distance samples are way better.

[Brisse 78]

Initial test of the new distance sound is pretty impressive.

 

Impressiveness confirmed! Some splendid sound work there BI. Some bugs have been noticed. Sometimes sounds doesn't play. Maybe certain samples are missing or not configured properly? Attenuation seems wrong too. Firefights just a few hundred meters away barely audible.

[Maxzy 12]

 New distant shots are effin' awesome!

But distance configs are borked - you can hear how sample is changing from normal to distant like 3 metres away. But nevertheless the sounds themselves ARE AWESOME!!!

[-LUGER- 14]

The MX Rifle sounds pretty nice now, not so over powering on the ears . I think i found a bug, when strafing left and right and firing single shots the sound changes ear from left to right. So strafe right, gun shots in left ear mostly, vice versa. Firing the mk200, MXSW, zafir on full auto goes silent as if your deaf in game. I know this feature has just been added and needs more configuration, i must say im very impressed  :D .

[St. Jimmy 272]

Wow now I can really hear the difference :o Nicely done with the rifles.

 

I just compared me shooting rifle and then pistol and changing back and forth when monitoring the audio bars at the same time. The pistols sound loud, ear bleeding and you can hear the limiter but when you shoot the rifle it hits the same decibels but it sounds so much better.

 

Best example probably is AAF Rifleman with the MK20 and ACP-C2. Though every basic rifleman is a good example.

 

I know that the pistols are naturally WIP but it's the best quick demonstrate. The distance sounds are pretty quiet (fade waaaaaayyyy too quickly) but I guess that's also WIP.

 

I can really feel nice things coming like I can hear silent stuff like environment, body movement, bullet hits 50cm from you and stuff like that and still hear the gunshots nicely so they don't just want to kill my ears in a sudden firefight.

[laxemann 1673]

Ok, I'm porting DynaSound over and the new stuff is freakin' amazing. Like awwww yis.

 

Only thing I don't quite get yet is the CfgSoundCurve thingy - is this the attenuation/lowpass filtering?