Audio Tweaking (dev branch)

[NeuroFunker 11]

start arma 2, start shooting with any gun, make smal group vs group battle. Start arma 3, shoot abit, compare to what youve heard in arma 2. If your hearing is OK, you should understand, why stereo in arma 3, and not mono like in arma 2.

[bigpickle 0]

Having tested more today, here's somethings I have noted :

Cons

This is definitely virgin idea being tried out, I feel something is wrong with the left channel is distorting making the right channel feel crisper and clearer, this make the left channel feel almost muffled, it actually gave me ear ache which shocked me, never happened before. I tested this on 5.1 and stereo and the result was the same.

The distance attenuation seems greatly overpowered, throwing a grenade 10-20 ft away make its pretty quiet, a rocket's 500 to 600m impact is virtually unheard, and the pitch and tone change with distance has not been altered yet, A2 has an excellent pitch change for distant impacts that will hopefully be emulated.

The looping system for sound files sounds different, like the timings are different than before, currently if you fire the MX on auto your can notice the bass frequencies (probably 32-40) breaking up and distorting making the loop sound bad, the bassist fire sounds suffer the worst from this.

Quite a few missing classes from configs, helicopters especially.

Pros

Positional or Direction sound is getting way better, better than arma2 thus far, its exciting to see how good its going to get when issues such tinny reverb is removed.

Hopefully this re-write will mean that distance features/enclosed space reverb etc will become stock and mod to produce it a thing of the past.

Hopefully the sound cone effect will get a work over with sounds being able to be added to cone parameters instead of just one sound.

The audio is finally getting the treatment it deserves, long awaited :)

[Smurf 12]

They just laid the system base, probably no (full) compatible or tweaked sounds for now. Most sounds sounded like placeholders even before this change anyway.

[wok 1]

Can we have full 3d sound with Arma 3? I though it was possible with stereo audio.

[gvse 10]

Could someone clarify whether weapon sounds are just plain missing or have some of them been renamed. So far only suppressed sounds were gone but Ive just found out that this sound, "A3\sounds_f\weapons\MX\mx-st-full-1.wav," which I use for a weapon mod, is now gone. Or is it?

[roberthammer 582]

Could someone clarify whether weapon sounds are just plain missing or have some of them been renamed. So far only suppressed sounds were gone but Ive just found out that this sound, "A3\sounds_f\weapons\MX\mx-st-full-1.wav," which I use for a weapon mod, is now gone. Or is it?

all WAV files were placeholders - now they using new type of WSS with stereo , use the new wss file instead

[DnA 5156]

Stereo sound samples ? Could someone explain to me how that works ?

The way I understand it: most 3D positional effects are indeed mono (otherwise you'd mix 2D stereo in a 3D soundscape). However, in case of you firing a weapon for example - this sound can be a nicer-sounding stereo sound (you as the observer are effectively in the center of the source). Other people observing you firing would hear the 3D mono positional effect instead.

[gvse 10]

all WAV files were placeholders - now they using new type of WSS with stereo , use the new wss file instead

OK, thanks for the answer!

[bigpickle 0]

DNA, I have a suggestion regarding ballistic cracks (sonic cracks), currently we have 1 sound for near and 1 sound for far, for each bullet class.

This sounds very limited when pinned down or in a fire fight, would it be possible to see if the sound engineers would be able to figure out a way to have multiple sounds for sonic crack near and sonic crack far classes. This would add a huge amount of sound variation and immersion.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Bigpickle

[fragmachine 12]

IMO cricket sounds should be more spottish. What we have now is cricket sound playing on the same volume for 15-20 meters square and that is bad.

Source of sound should be like 2cm not 20 meters and volume increasing/decreasing as we approach the cricket :) <sarcasm inclusive>

[zeep 3]

Glad to meet the audio team!

Does the audio engine support occlusion? Filtering? If yes, do you have plans to use that in-game?

Like when a car drives by, it should sound different when the player is indoors.

[metalcraze 290]

There was occlusion since ArmA2. Not sure about ArmA1 though, OFP didn't have it.

Haven't tested in ArmA3 yet but in ArmA2 for example if a chopper is hovering somewhere and you move behind trees - they start to silence its sound. Can even step back and forth from behind them to check out the difference - it's pretty cool and I bet puts some load on a CPU too when it happens all over the map. But I don't mind.

What ArmA3 really needs is to liven up its soundscape a bit. Like adding electric hum to some lamps perhaps? And the sound of rotating projectors to the beacons. And the electric hum of radars/antennas. Night is not just insects making noise.

[NeuroFunker 11]

please, make chopper propeller, not pop up at distance, but make a smooth fade it, so you can hear them from far away, and not poping out of silence not so far away.

[metalcraze 290]

It's already done in dev build I think.

[fragmachine 12]

There was occlusion since ArmA2. Not sure about ArmA1 though, OFP didn't have it.

Haven't tested in ArmA3 yet but in ArmA2 for example if a chopper is hovering somewhere and you move behind trees - they start to silence its sound. Can even step back and forth from behind them to check out the difference - it's pretty cool and I bet puts some load on a CPU too when it happens all over the map. But I don't mind.

What ArmA3 really needs is to liven up its soundscape a bit. Like adding electric hum to some lamps perhaps? And the sound of rotating projectors to the beacons. And the electric hum of radars/antennas. Night is not just insects making noise.

I am completely agreeing with you, ArmAverse is such a huge game-world that even these audio samples that are right now in Alpha are just too few - even if compared to other games soundlibraries still huge - to expose this game in all its glory it deserves. We need more diversity to sounds - more "little things" to the sound thing.

There is an occlusion in A2 but not in A3 which seems strange - downgrade in that area. Handheld weapons sound much better than A2 ones but after while sound is becoming irritating. It acts the same way in forest, urban areas, open fields. There is no dynamic to the sound, in reality soundwaves are absorbed, scattered, reflected depending on the material they meet on their way. Sound will pitch-change, echoing, reverbing. There will be frequency-change, someone shooting an HMG 400-500m from us will be heard as giant striking with heavy hammer. There is some approach into that matter in A3 but IMO not much to the variety of it. These are just samples of rifles firing on firing range - thus the reverb. We don't even need five grande sound samples, just a sound engine base we can work with to get that meaty sound experience happen in ArmAverse.

[zeep 3]

I am completely agreeing with you, ArmAverse is such a huge game-world that even these audio samples that are right now in Alpha are just too few - even if compared to other games soundlibraries still huge - to expose this game in all its glory it deserves. We need more diversity to sounds - more "little things" to the sound thing.

There is an occlusion in A2 but not in A3 which seems strange - downgrade in that area. Handheld weapons sound much better than A2 ones but after while sound is becoming irritating. It acts the same way in forest, urban areas, open fields. There is no dynamic to the sound, in reality soundwaves are absorbed, scattered, reflected depending on the material they meet on their way. Sound will pitch-change, echoing, reverbing. There will be frequency-change, someone shooting an HMG 400-500m from us will be heard as giant striking with heavy hammer. There is some approach into that matter in A3 but IMO not much to the variety of it. These are just samples of rifles firing on firing range - thus the reverb. We don't even need five grande sound samples, just a sound engine base we can work with to get that meaty sound experience happen in ArmAverse.

I was thinking to discuss all this and more, specifically i'm interested in what the audio engine is capable of by means of effect to sounds before the game needs to switch to another sound. I mean like you can make i.e. a weapon firing sound different inside a house and outside a house by changing the sound itself, or by dsp. The latter is the best. Together with combinations of different sounds with SMOOTH transitions. (Like weapon distance sounds).

The point is a capable audio engine can make the game sound amazing. Using only good sounds is just good.

Like these examples:

- Compressing & low pass filtering loud nearby explosions to simulate inner ear muscle contraction and deafening effect. Loud nearby sounds occupy frequencies of other sounds, silencing them out to an extend.

- Occlusion by means of filtering & reverb to simulate all spaces in game. Indoor spaces, outside, hills, forests etc. (Soldiers walking in the room next door sound different than soldiers in the same room).

I would love a technical reply from the developers.

[NeuroFunker 11]

i barely think, BIS would implement all that, but i do really hope, they would add reverberation at least.

[metalcraze 290]

Even EAX2-grade reverb will make all the difference in the world (and with EFX in OpenAL you can have EAX2 literally on any system that has any kind of soundchip). It's very light on CPU too.

EFX - not an option for some reason? well if there's any other similar solution it should be used.

There's a reason why Thief games still sound great more than a decade ago. It has one sample for footsteps yet it sounds different when you are in a kitchen, bathroom, park, dungeon. And it's a 1998 game.

Preprocessed samples, no matter how high quality the processing is, are getting stale very fast when they sound the same in every environment.

[bigpickle 0]

please, make chopper propeller, not pop up at distance, but make a smooth fade it, so you can hear them from far away, and not poping out of silence not so far away.

Open up the air pbo and you'll see the helicopters currently have less sound classes than in ArmA2, it wont sound that great without those extra classes, which I hope at some point will go back in considering vehicles now have more sound classes then before.

MH9

		class Sounds {

		class Engine {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\MH9_ext_engine", 2.23872, 1.0, 900};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*((rotorSpeed-0.55)*4)";
		};

		class RotorLowOut {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\MH9_ext_rotor_normal", db3, 1.0, 1200};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*(0 max (rotorSpeed-0.1))";
			cone[] = {1.6, 3.14, 1.6, 0.95};
		};

		class RotorHighOut {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\MH9_ext_rotor_high", db10, 1.0, 1500};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*10*(0 max (rotorThrust-0.9))";
			cone[] = {1.6, 3.14, 1.6, 0.95};
		};

		class EngineIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\mh9_ext_engine", db0, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*((rotorSpeed-0.55)*4)";
		};

		class RotorLowIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\mh9_ext_rotor_normal_new", db5, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*(0 max (rotorSpeed-0.1))";
		};

		class RotorHighIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\MH9\mh9_ext_rotor_high_new", db5, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*3*(rotorThrust-0.9)";

KA60

		class Sounds {

		class Engine {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_ext_engine_v2", 2.23872, 1.0, 900};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*((rotorSpeed-0.72)*4)";
		};

		class RotorLowOut {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_ext_rotor_normal", db3, 1.0, 1200};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*(0 max (rotorSpeed-0.1))";
			cone[] = {1.6, 3.14, 1.6, 0.95};
		};

		class RotorHighOut {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_ext_rotor_high", db10, 1.0, 1500};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "camPos*10*(0 max (rotorThrust-0.9))";
			cone[] = {1.6, 3.14, 1.6, 0.95};
		};

		class RotorNoiseExt {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\rotor_swist", db0, 1, 800};
			frequency = 1;
			volume = "(camPos*(rotorSpeed factor [0.6, 0.85]))";
			cone[] = {0.7, 1.3, 1.0, 0};
		};

		class EngineIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_int_engine_v2", db0, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*((rotorSpeed-0.75)*4)";
		};

		class RotorLowIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_int_rotor_normal", db5, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*(0 max (rotorSpeed-0.1))";
		};

		class RotorHighIn {
			sound[] = {"A3\Sounds_F\air\KA60\KA60_int_rotor_high", db5, 1.0};
			frequency = "rotorSpeed";
			volume = "(1-camPos)*3*(rotorThrust-0.9)";
		};
	};

Notice the MH9 is also missing a sound class.

This is how many sound classes helicopters had in arma 2

			class Engine

		class RotorLowOut

		class RotorHighOut

		class WindNoiseOut


		class EngineIn

		class RotorLowIn

		class RotorHighIn

                       class WindNoiseIn

I'm guessing that class RotorNoiseExt is replacing the the WindNoiseOut, so we might get a RotorNoiseInt at some point, but i just hope the air vehicles get the treatment like the land vehicles did.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Bigpickle

[Simas 12]

nvm, my bad

Edited May 12, 2013 by simast

[Cykyrios 10]

While this post is not about the current changes to the sounds of the game, it deals with the sound engine, and how sound is handled.

The way sound is implemented currently is (very roughly):

- generate sound

- calculate distance, and thus delay, to the player, to play the sound properly, including the environment (or is it taken into account?)

- and most importantly, once the sound reaches the player, it is "positioned" somewhere between the Left and Right channels to be played back by your speakers/headphones.

This last point is the part that concerns me: if you are 100-200 meters away from a hovering helicopter, directly to your right, ALL the sound will come from the right speaker. While this isn't much of a problem with speakers, it is extremely uncomfortable (and unrealistic) when wearing headphones, since your left ear will hear absolutely nothing. Which brings me to the following suggestion: implementing some form of binaural play back.

Instead of "positioning" the sound somewhere in the Left-Right channels, each speaker (or channel, maybe?) should be handled individually, so that both ears hear something properly (which relies on the speed of sound (already in the game) and some filtering to simulate the skull and ears themselves relative to the source of the sound).

The basis of binaural playback is that as in real life, both ears should hear the sound, unless it is very low and close to only one ear (such as whispering). In Arma, with mostly gunfire and engines as sound sources, there is no doubt sounds are loud enough.

I believe this is a "simple" way to implement binaural sound into a game, as it is not possible to record sounds directly with 2 microphones to cover all the possible situations.

For an example of 2-microphones binaural recording, please listen to the "

" on YouTube, or simply search for the word "binaural".

This example is a great way to understand how stereo is far enough to estimate the direction and distance of sounds, in the same way we have 2 ears and not 4+ as in surround systems.

I'd like to know the devs' and other players' opinions about this system, and if there could be a chance to have it in the game in the future.

Thanks for reading.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Cykyrios

[metalcraze 290]

Headphones never represent sound in a realistic way due to the lack of crossmixing between L/R speaker unless they have it built-in which is again only an approximation of human hearing.

The sound should never be tailored to headphones exclusively however an option to crossmix in-game will be nice.

[Cykyrios 10]

This is another issue I believe exists in the game: the lack of an option to choose from speakers/headphones/<add your speaker configuration>.

But I still strongly believe a headphones option, at least, should be added, as most multiplayer missions require vocal communication, which is usually done using a headphones-mounted microphone.

[PTV-Jobo 820]

But I still strongly believe a headphones option, at least, should be added, as most multiplayer missions require vocal communication, which is usually done using a headphones-mounted microphone.

+1

I use a headset not only for comms (though technically one only needs a mic and can still use speakers), but also since I live with family. I doubt either my family nor neighbors will appreciate the constant diving on the floor when I play on speakers, thinking the military has stormed the front lawn and firing everything they have at the house. :p j/k

[Simas 12]

I would also love to see a tailored speakers/headphone sound option in-game. Not that it matters much - but BF3 had this :)