Not liking the new Fatigue system - Jogging should not be penalised

[metalcraze 290]

go out running with 50lbs on your back and tell me how far you get before your vision starts going blurry, bet its more than 100m.

It's less than 100m in A3? Likewise I will ask you how far will you get with 50lbs at all? In ArmA3 currently you can run 100km... 200km... 300km and it will not matter. Blurred vision? Pfft, post processing to off.

I believe sometimes subtle is better than having it rammed in your face.

Fatigue is already non-existent, any more subtle and we are back to ArmA2 levels. Except in ArmA2 there were unrealistic, artificial limits to what you can carry. In ArmA3 there are no limits so it's even worse.

[bigpickle 0]

Ah right so your gonna suggest now we should turn our graphics features off to suit what you want, shift click so you can find 100m and sprint. 50lbs speed march around 12km, that's around 20lbs webbing, 20/30lb burgen/daysack not including weapon and water, every friday cos my wo was a machine.

Enjoy your fatigue I'll mod it out thanks.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Bigpickle

[kernriver 4]

I think BI should link fatigue to your loadout and stance.

The more you carry, the more you are fatigued, and sooner. It should be dynamic, not linear.

Then it will work in any situation.

[maddogx 13]

I think BI should link fatigue to your loadout and stance.

The more you carry, the more you are fatigued, and sooner. It should be dynamic, not linear.

Then it will work in any situation.

Isn't that how it (supposedly) already works? More gear = more weight = more fatigue?

[kernriver 4]

Isn't that how it (supposedly) already works? More gear = more weight = more fatigue?

I really wouldn't know. I'm just saying that's the way I think it should work. :o

If it already works like that, IMHO it should be harsher.

[dmarkwick 261]

Isn't that how it (supposedly) already works? More gear = more weight = more fatigue?

I think he's suggesting a non-linear curve, so loadouts under a "sensible" value increases fatigue at a slow rate, while heavy loadouts increases fatigue at a faster rate. (I guess you might have meant that :))

[maddogx 13]

I think he's suggesting a non-linear curve, so loadouts under a "sensible" value increases fatigue at a slow rate, while heavy loadouts increases fatigue at a faster rate. (I guess you might have meant that :))

Now I get it, and no that's not what I meant. Sounds like a good idea though. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

Now I get it, and no that's not what I meant. Sounds like a good idea though. :)

Yeah I think it is. Means that for the most part sensible gameplay is not affected too much, but increased loadouts encourages vehicle use, proper drop-off points, backpack dumping before battles etc.

[kernriver 4]

I think he's suggesting a non-linear curve, so loadouts under a "sensible" value increases fatigue at a slow rate, while heavy loadouts increases fatigue at a faster rate. (I guess you might have meant that :))

That's exactly what I meant, thanks for explaining it in English. ;)

I've seen guys that took so much spare ammo, for example, that after a few kilometres they had hard time walking, let alone running.

[metalcraze 290]

Ah right so your gonna suggest now we should turn our graphics features off to suit what you want, shift click so you can find 100m and sprint. 50lbs speed march around 12km, that's around 20lbs webbing, 20/30lb burgen/daysack not including weapon and water, every friday cos my wo was a machine.

Enjoy your fatigue I'll mod it out thanks.

No what I suggest is BIS adding a lot harsher penalty instead of harmless blur and vignette - like not being able to jog at all with 100 kgs on. And not being able to jog for eternity no matter the load.

BIS must force people to choose sensible loadouts. If you want to play rambo - by all means let it be through mods.

Edited May 13, 2013 by metalcraze

[roguetrooper 2]

Most likely nobody will read this on page 16:

Just make the fatigue an option for the difficulty settings. Done. Everyone would be satisfied.

[bigpickle 0]

Most likely nobody will read this on page 16:

Just make the fatigue an option for the difficulty settings. Done. Everyone would be satisfied.

+1 for that idea

[chortles 263]

and i have to agree with metalcraze here. the game should be freely designed with its own rules.

Didn't Gaia say that Arma 3 AI can't autonomously mine-lay (though they can be scripted/ordered to) because it stands a plausible chance of breaking missions (both BI and user-made) and (though he didn't say this) because they can't trust the AI not to pick "mission-breaking" times and locations to lay down mines? That sounds like the opposite attitude. Edited May 13, 2013 by Chortles

[Smurf 12]

Didn't Gaia say that Arma 3 AI can't autonomously mine-lay (though they can be scripted/ordered to) because it stands a plausible chance of breaking missions (both BI and user-made) and (though he didn't say this) because they can't trust the AI not to pick "mission-breaking" times and locations to lay down mines? That sounds like the opposite attitude.

Not related at all.

[dmarkwick 261]

Didn't Gaia say that Arma 3 AI can't autonomously mine-lay (though they can be scripted/ordered to) because it stands a plausible chance of breaking missions (both BI and user-made) and (though he didn't say this) because they can't trust the AI not to pick "mission-breaking" times and locations to lay down mines? That sounds like the opposite attitude.

Well at some point in the development they have to draw a line under the AI's (and the player's) abilities and start to forge the game around that point. I guess they can't endlessly add gamechanging features because, well, they'd have to change the game :D

[bad benson 1733]

Didn't Gaia say that Arma 3 AI can't autonomously mine-lay (though they can be scripted/ordered to) because it stands a plausible chance of breaking missions (both BI and user-made) and (though he didn't say this) because they can't trust the AI not to pick "mission-breaking" times and locations to lay down mines? That sounds like the opposite attitude.

what a weird logic. i don't see how these things are related in any way.

when i say freely designing a game i mean the way BI want to do it and not based on some irrational fears people have about what new features will do to the game. if they don't want AI placing mines all over the place they will try to avoid it, if they want the load you carry having an impact on your mobility they will make it happen. simple.

you're getting way to meta and speculative here just to make a point.

[Wolfstriked 11]

I am also thinking its not enough.IMO it needs one extra step and that is to enable a slight stamina regen PLUS have it so that very heavy soldiers must resort to walking after jogging for awhile.So your super light and you sprint further and when your jogging you can sprint after awhile.When your fully loaded down you sprint for shorter duration and then jog for a little while and then your forced to walk which after a good time you regain some jogging stamina back.

[qbert 10]

Being a regular player of the ACE2 mod, which I guess throws me into the "Hardcore realism tacticool" group, I have no issue with a stamina system. I've never noticed a blur problem in any of the time that I've played A3A because I'm the most efficient inventory managing virtual soldier anyone could possibly be. With a loadout of: Primary assault rifle, sidearm, attachments for assault rifle, and some medkits/grenades, and all that default soldier stuff, I've had no problem. It's a hell of a lot more forgiving then ACE from what I've seen, which is fine.

Someone on the second or third page of this thread mentioned that jogging isn't penalized enough, and I have to agree. In ACE2 (One of the most used Arma mods next to DayZ) if you get fatigued you'll trip over yourself, blink, hear a loud heartbeat, have blurred vision, sometimes pass out. Sometimes you'll have to crawl your way somewhere, or have a medic fix you up with morphine/epi-pens, etc.

Compared to ACE this is cupcake stuff.

If the blurring is a huge problem then maybe they should tone it down a tiny bit, but from what I've seen it's fine, and hasn't been intrusive. (I have post processing on low, if you're wondering).

Personally I say bring it on. Make us HAVE to take a vehicle. Make all the soldiers 300lb donut eating slobs with heart problems and put drive through Burger Kings every few miles for all I care.

The most immersive part of this game for me is playing with friends and hearing someone say "I gotta take a breather" and then maybe someone will offer to carry his mags/belts. Makes you feel like

comrades when you have to manage stupid little things like that every now and then.

[armitagewb 10]

Being a regular player of the ACE2 mod, which I guess throws me into the "Hardcore realism tacticool" group, I have no issue with a stamina system. I've never noticed a blur problem in any of the time that I've played A3A because I'm the most efficient inventory managing virtual soldier anyone could possibly be. With a loadout of: Primary assault rifle, sidearm, attachments for assault rifle, and some medkits/grenades, and all that default soldier stuff, I've had no problem. It's a hell of a lot more forgiving then ACE from what I've seen, which is fine.

Someone on the second or third page of this thread mentioned that jogging isn't penalized enough, and I have to agree. In ACE2 (One of the most used Arma mods next to DayZ) if you get fatigued you'll trip over yourself, blink, hear a loud heartbeat, have blurred vision, sometimes pass out. Sometimes you'll have to crawl your way somewhere, or have a medic fix you up with morphine/epi-pens, etc.

Compared to ACE this is cupcake stuff.

If the blurring is a huge problem then maybe they should tone it down a tiny bit, but from what I've seen it's fine, and hasn't been intrusive. (I have post processing on low, if you're wondering).

Personally I say bring it on. Make us HAVE to take a vehicle. Make all the soldiers 300lb donut eating slobs with heart problems and put drive through Burger Kings every few miles for all I care.

The most immersive part of this game for me is playing with friends and hearing someone say "I gotta take a breather" and then maybe someone will offer to carry his mags/belts. Makes you feel like

comrades when you have to manage stupid little things like that every now and then.

Agreed. The fatigues is good for gameplay and realism. Even if you're in good shape, jogging with 30lbs+ of equipment is tiring, especially with a gun in your arms.

[max power 21]

who cares about fatigue, it's the battle simulation we're after...

I believe the fatigue is a way of incurring an encumbrance penalty. It works with the gear weight values to try to figure out the problem with previous games where users could take an AR like the xm8 mg and 8 beta C mags, plus a javelin, plus a machine pistol and run as fast as a guy with no gear at all. I think this is especially important now that we have more options for load bearing equipment.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Max Power

[mobile_medic 43]

If the fatigue system stays, please just remove the blurry screen. I find it annoying and unnecessary, personally.

[ToM666 1]

Yeh, I have to say our entire clan are complaining about this.

We play Arma because we like realism as best as we can get it but the blurry vision effect gives us all eyestrain as we are continually trying to focus and is quite annoying.

I would accept the effect more if I was badly hurt or near death but just from running I think is going a bit too far LOL

[nodunit 397]

Personally I find the fatigue blurring to be less realistic. As a person who is out of shape and can run out of breath about as quickly as a heavily laden soldier in arma 3 I can say that my body just quits and demands a rest, breathing becomes very heavy and movement is sluggish.

The only time I've ever had a blurring vision was a day I was out in 102 degrees of weather without drinking ANYTHING, moving heavy utilities around, dehydrated myself and saw a flashing of colors. So yeah...no blurring please, the heavy breathing and sluggish movement is enough to tell us that we need to pause for a breath or that our avatar can't push their body as hard.

[max power 21]

I have had sweat in my eyes and it's hard to see but it's not like that happens often.

[-Coulum- 35]

My eyes blur everyonce In a while when running with my contacts in - but the fact that I needed them was what got me the letter of rejection when I tried to join up:( - so I guess a soldier wouldn't have that problem.

I am okay with blur but I don't think it should be so severe quite so quickly.