The Recoil Fix Mod [Alpha]

[Wolfstriked 11]

What testing conditions (i.e. unit, loadout, stance, distance, targets, fire modes and methods of fire) were you using anyway? I'm honestly reporting the results that I got with my aforementioned conditions; even "mashing" semiauto fire remains inaccurate at point target shooting at a quarter-click, much less full auto -- even in bursts -- and with either one I'm not getting nearly the accuracy or groups that you are... then again, this may have to do with how this mod doesn't (directly) affect the sway.

I play by shooting and pulling mouse down to concentrate shots.Maybe your not pulling down as hard?This is why the excessive recoil is good in certain circumstances.It prevents players from using tricks to game the game.

We should also remember that these are 'future weapons'. Would recoil be worse in 20 years time than it is at present, as it is by default in Arma 3? I don't think so!

Thanks Nico :-)

In 2035 we will probably have weapons that reduce recoil by huge amounts but not the weapons we have in game right now.They should probably change the yr to 2020 as the weapons we have in game right now are real world replicas.

[chortles 263]

I play by shooting and pulling mouse down to concentrate shots.Maybe your not pulling down as hard?This is why the excessive recoil is good in certain circumstances.It prevents players from using tricks to game the game.

Excessive recoil sounds as "gamey" as pulling the mouse down in the first place, and I have no idea how you're quantifying "pulling down as hard", much less what your character's shooting conditions (such as what I outlined) are.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Excessive recoil sounds as "gamey" as pulling the mouse down in the first place, and I have no idea how you're quantifying "pulling down as hard", much less what your character's shooting conditions (such as what I outlined) are.

I agree completely that excessive recoil is gamey but I also understand why its there.Some things have to be done to compensate for the high accuracy of the weapons.In A3 the dispersion for single shot and the dispersion for full auto fire is the same.So you put weapon on full auto with less recoil and you will group shots rather well.But if you set the dispersion for full auto to be bad,while it looks great and feels great in full auto fire it will be terrible if player decided to try to place a single accurate shot and miss by a good amount....which will set the forums aflame with "why the hell can't I hit anything!!!!".

So a new recoil model IMO of course that would work well.Set one dispersion for the weapon and if you hold the fire button for more than two shots at once the dispersion ramps up a good amount.This way you can keep the recoil lower so you do not have players screaming "the excessive recoil is so bad" while at same time control the fact that low recoil+high accuracy=accurate bursts.Or we the players can all agree that if you want accuracy then you set to single fire but if you wanna go full auto the weapon will be less accurate.

[chortles 263]

So you put weapon on full auto with less recoil and you will group shots rather well.

That's exactly what I'm not getting with this mod, hence my initial response that the main benefit thusfar from the mod was being better able to 'stay sighted in on the target'... and I should add that this is all with a stationary target; I still have no such luck against moving targets. Edited May 3, 2013 by Chortles

[Nikoteen 24]

UPDATE 1.1

Changelog :

- Recoil increased a little bit (ratio 0.57)

- Addon signed for MP exclusion or controlled usage.

Download link : http://dl.free.fr/gqqhPThX2

[chortles 263]

I'm not seeing much difference under the aforementioned conditions (BLUFOR Rifleman with default loadout atop Military Cargo HQ firing in both semiauto and full auto at approximately 240 meters to a stationary target) compared to the prior build; it was so difficult to group with ratio 0.43 that I'm not even noticing any increased difficulty at 0.57!

If it helps for tweaking though, I would say though that with v1.1, on full auto it's about shot #5 or so where the 'climb' is enough that the target is no longer centered in my view, and with both versions I was having the BLUFOR soldier fire from a stationary position.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Chortles

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

The Recoil Fix Mod [ALPHA] v1.1



Community Base addons A3

[Wolfstriked 11]

Really starting to like this mod......of course thank you Nikoteen for coming up with the idea.:)

Chortles,,it could of been that I was testing with MX rifle which has less recoil at the setting 0.45.If you test with the MXSW it has more recoil at same setting and so its harder to group well.It uses different prone recoil model.

The TRG21 is super accurate and grouping the tightest.TRG uses less recoil than both so at 0.45 really groups tightly.But this is only for the TRG 21 as the TRG20 has terrible dispersion(its a carbine but they took that too far IMO). 0.006 vs 0.00093 which means that the TRG20 is like a pistol LOL.Funny how I see people online using it.:butbut: with a silencer too boot.:j:

I now wonder,is it possible to make it so that the MXSW gets the ""recoil_auto_prone_trg"" that the TRG weapons use?This coupled with a slightly lessened dispersion will give it a nice feel.Right now the MXSW uses 0.00093(same as the normal MX rifle) and by reducing it to 0.002 I feel will make it slightly less accurate but with the reduced recoil feel better when prone.Leave the excessive recoil it has for crouched/standing though as the extra weight of LMG's make them more suitable for prone stance.

I think that if we pull together we(Nikoteen) can fix the weapons for now.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfstriked

[chortles 263]

Chortles,,it could of been that I was testing with MX rifle which has less recoil at the setting 0.45.If you test with the MXSW it has more recoil at same setting and so its harder to group well.It uses different prone recoil model.

We were both using the MX rifle, but I was testing standing whereas you seem to have been testing prone -- again, where are you shooting from and at what distance? I really can't find an accurate comparison with your findings otherwise, you have been very unclear about your findings from the beginning and we've been talking at seeming cross-purposes.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Your right,sorry as you did ask from beginning what stance,distance etc.As for why I can group with it pretty well will remain a mystery.While I do believe its just my superior mouse shooting abilities....it could be that I just use a different mouse than you.I have the very highly rated very old Microsoft wheel mouse optical.I purchased a few mice recently and even one that cost $60.00 dollars and found that nothing compares to the WMO.And the higher the DPI the worse I became in game.The WMO has a super low DPI at 400 that coupled with its superior shape just makes gaming a pleasure and shooting easier.Sadly its discontinued so its hard to get and mine has seen better days.Funny thing is that my manager at work has one that stares at me when I am in his office being reprimanded.

[antoineflemming 14]

Really starting to like this mod......of course thank you Nikoteen for coming up with the idea.:)

Chortles,,it could of been that I was testing with MX rifle which has less recoil at the setting 0.45.If you test with the MXSW it has more recoil at same setting and so its harder to group well.It uses different prone recoil model.

The TRG21 is super accurate and grouping the tightest.TRG uses less recoil than both so at 0.45 really groups tightly.But this is only for the TRG 21 as the TRG20 has terrible dispersion(its a carbine but they took that too far IMO). 0.006 vs 0.00093 which means that the TRG20 is like a pistol LOL.Funny how I see people online using it.:butbut: with a silencer too boot.:j:

I now wonder,is it possible to make it so that the MXSW gets the ""recoil_auto_prone_trg"" that the TRG weapons use?This coupled with a slightly lessened dispersion will give it a nice feel.Right now the MXSW uses 0.00093(same as the normal MX rifle) and by reducing it to 0.002 I feel will make it slightly less accurate but with the reduced recoil feel better when prone.Leave the excessive recoil it has for crouched/standing though as the extra weight of LMG's make them more suitable for prone stance.

I think that if we pull together we(Nikoteen) can fix the weapons for now.

Do you mean increasing it to 0.002 or decreasing it to 0.0002, and do you mean from 0.00093 or from 0.006? Just trying to get some clarity.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Do you mean increasing it to 0.002 or decreasing it to 0.0002, and do you mean from 0.00093 or from 0.006? Just trying to get some clarity.

The MXSW has its dispersion at 0.00093 so INCREASE to 0.002 and test.

I just posted 0.002 as a wild guess really. 0.006 is the dispersion of the TRG20 and I posted that to show that its too high of dispersion.Try it in editor to see that its just terribad.Even at short range it misses by good amount let alone at distance.But the recoil is less on the TRG model.Could be switched to the MXSW since that has high recoil model and is not right for a LMG.

It has to be played with though since you can make the MXSW the best weapon in game.:) Less recoil and the accuracy it has now and it will be a sniper LMG.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Wolfstriked

[chortles 263]

Your right,sorry as you did ask from beginning what stance,distance etc.As for why I can group with it pretty well will remain a mystery.While I do believe its just my superior mouse shooting abilities....it could be that I just use a different mouse than you.I have the very highly rated very old Microsoft wheel mouse optical.I purchased a few mice recently and even one that cost $60.00 dollars and found that nothing compares to the WMO.And the higher the DPI the worse I became in game.The WMO has a super low DPI at 400 that coupled with its superior shape just makes gaming a pleasure and shooting easier.Sadly its discontinued so its hard to get and mine has seen better days.Funny thing is that my manager at work has one that stares at me when I am in his office being reprimanded.

If it helps with comparisons, I've been using a mouse whose lowest setting that's labeled on the mouse is a whole 800 dpi.

[Gattobuono 10]

Bravo Ceh! allora, capsci un po' d'italiano?

I haven't fired an assault rifle or smg for many years so I am mainly comparing A3 recoil with A2/OFP-DR/BF3 etc. I'm sure you know how difficult it is to compare holding and firing a real weapon with using a mouse, especially as it gives you no physical feedback. That's one of the reasons I prefer to play BF3 on my xbox, when I fire a weapon I feel the recoil (force feedback in controller) and that's something I really miss on PC. I know that I can use a controller with Arma, I've tried it and it's horrible.

However, to get to the point, I would 'imagine' that weapons manufacturers would be looking to produce guns with as little recoil as possible, and that they should be stable when fired. Hence I find it strange that 'future weapons' should be so clunky. Obviously we don't want lazers ... but we're not firing WW2 Lee Enfields, or Bren Guns (I've fired both so I know what I'm talking about!).

Saluti da Gatto

[Wolfstriked 11]

If it helps with comparisons, I've been using a mouse whose lowest setting that's labeled on the mouse is a whole 800 dpi.

When I purchased an expensive mouse I used 400dpi even though it went up to 8200dpi.Anything over 1200dpi for me is unplayable as the mouse is super sensitive and moves like crazy to slightest movement.

Bravo Ceh! allora, capsci un po' d'italiano?

I haven't fired an assault rifle or smg for many years so I am mainly comparing A3 recoil with A2/OFP-DR/BF3 etc. I'm sure you know how difficult it is to compare holding and firing a real weapon with using a mouse, especially as it gives you no physical feedback. That's one of the reasons I prefer to play BF3 on my xbox, when I fire a weapon I feel the recoil (force feedback in controller) and that's something I really miss on PC. I know that I can use a controller with Arma, I've tried it and it's horrible.

However, to get to the point, I would 'imagine' that weapons manufacturers would be looking to produce guns with as little recoil as possible, and that they should be stable when fired. Hence I find it strange that 'future weapons' should be so clunky. Obviously we don't want lazers ... but we're not firing WW2 Lee Enfields, or Bren Guns (I've fired both so I know what I'm talking about!).

Saluti da Gatto

The problem of producing weapons that reduce recoil is that it adds in complexity.You would need to add in so much gizmos into the insides that move backwards and dissipate the force.The An94 has very little recoil felt until second shot due to complicated/high maintenance innards and is a reason you rarely hear about it IMO.The reason the Ak74 is still around is that it shoots in mud,dirt etc with little care.Truthfully I don't think that its possible to fix fix this recoil issue and maybe the only way is to start Star Wars a little early.

[gatordev 215]

The problem of producing weapons that reduce recoil is that it adds in complexity.You would need to add in so much gizmos into the insides that move backwards and dissipate the force.The An94 has very little recoil felt until second shot due to complicated/high maintenance innards and is a reason you rarely hear about it IMO.The reason the Ak74 is still around is that it shoots in mud,dirt etc with little care.Truthfully I don't think that its possible to fix fix this recoil issue and maybe the only way is to start Star Wars a little early.

With a good muzzle brake (or a suppressor), you can greatly reduce felt recoil with no added complexity to the weapon. I have a M1a Scout (think M14) with a Surefire brake on a 18" barrel and it's incredibly smooth compared to my SR-25 with a 20" barrel and no brake. I had the opportunity to shoot a Larue OBR 7.62 for a couple of rounds at a class a couple of weeks ago that was suppressed. Same round and same gas system length, but it had SIGNIFICANTLY less recoil than my SR-25 unsuppressed, despite being the same basic design.

I can't say whether this addon is "more realistic" or "less realistic," but just saying there are simple ways to reduce felt recoil on any type of rifle in real life.

[Nikoteen 24]

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZX7Ycol-yE

Looking ahead, what will your team work on towards release of the Arma 3?

We really need to focus on the basis of Arma 3’s gameplay, which is infantry. I would like us to refine the controls and fluidity of the game play further. We also still need to revise the equipment, which can be improved in some aspects and needs more balancing. Also, we will be looking at the grenades and handling of weapons: there is a big recoil enhancement going on, and some more cool stuff about which we can hopefully tell more in the near future.

Good news ! the dev are working on that important issue (after all, firing the rifle is the main activity in an Arma game :p)

[freemangl 1]

Any video for this?

[woore 10]

Any video for this?

Here it is!

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[ric 1]

Here it is!

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OH GAWD!!! Metro!!! the FPS mosh pit...lol I love how everyone clusterfucks on the other side of the wall...one RPG in real life and there all dead.

[PTV-Jobo 820]

As much as I loathe BF3, I will say I do enjoy the feel of the rifles when shooting. I really like the feel of the weapon recoil for the rifles and lmg's. It makes the weapon "feel" real to me, but that I'm also trained to properly use it, thus control. And in some ways, a bit smoother or more fluid. In ArmA 3, I sometimes feel like a feeble 98 year old granny trying to fire a rifle for the very first time. I have a bad wrist to begin with from a childhood injury and a doctor's screw up, so the whole "fighting the recoil with your mouse to make it realistic" mentality doesn't float with me. Maybe to some, but not me. We can lodge all kinds of complaints against BF3 and it's developers, but all their stupidity aside, their recoil and handling of weapons just feels a lot better than it does in ArmA 3. When firing now, it feels messy and almost as if I'm having frames dropping in between firing. I'm just hoping whatever these "enhancements" will be, it'll improve the feeling and control of the weapons and not make things worse. But yeah, laugh at me if you will and call me a nutter, but I do rather like the BF3/BF4 weapon recoil feel.

[chortles 263]

OH GAWD!!! Metro!!! the FPS mosh pit...lol I love how everyone clusterfucks on the other side of the wall...one RPG in real life and there all dead.

Pffft, "Lol... the guys he's fighting stink. Look at those terrible reaction times."

Although, one RPG in BF3 and they'd have stood a decent chance of being "all dead"... without the FLAK specialization anyway (reduces explosive splash damage incurred by 15% -- albeit not "being hit by the RPG itself" :p). What this video actually is... is a massive group "situational awareness" fail, and (since the viewpoint player was RU team) a pretty big "outflanking" of the US team from their own attacking route. :p

[Nikoteen 24]

I'm waiting to see if beta bring out new recoil as announced, or if it's for later...

I will then update the mod or not (I would rather prefer not to use it anymore TBH)

I'm amused to see that some people still regard a dev-confirmed broken recoil as realistic feature "correct yourself with the mouse" lol

[bigpickle 0]

any news about this OP, the scope sway got worse :( I hate the interpretations were lack of knowledge or experience is the problem.