Lighting Tweaking (dev branch)

[NordKindchen 12]

Well Take On Helicopters has a shadow slider that goes up to 2000m and the performance hit seems to be pretty small.

Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shadows are so important. At least give us the damn OPTION to increase the range! There are people out there that have impressive copmuters out there if you didnt notice!

[NeuroFunker 11]

Lately i began to notice, light cast range by ground vehicles, is way to low, the faster your vehicle is, the problematic it gets at nights, to see anything at high speeds beyong 3 meters, even driving speedways, can be deadly faster then 100kph at nights. Could the lighth cast range be increased for at least few meters? Could we get near/far light switch, like cars do have in real life? Also i agree on shadow cast slider, i wish it would be at least 1km far, if not further.

[progamer 14]

Lately i began to notice, light cast range by ground vehicles, is way to low, the faster your vehicle is, the problematic it gets at nights, to see anything at high speeds beyong 3 meters, even driving speedways, can be deadly faster then 100kph at nights. Could the lighth cast range be increased for at least few meters? Could we get near/far light switch, like cars do have in real life? Also i agree on shadow cast slider, i wish it would be at least 1km far, if not further.

This issue is more of an example why we need high beams and low beams on our vehicles.

[fabio_chavez 103]

oh guys please add the possibility to define sky = "..." and horizon = "..." by sunangle too and not just by overcast

eg like this:

class Overcast: Overcast
		{
			class Weather8: Weather1
			{
				sky = "custom\sky_clear_sky.paa";
				skyR = "custom\sky_clear_lco.paa";
				horizon = "custom\sky_clear_horizont_sky.paa";
                                      [color="#FF0000"][font=Arial Black] sunAngle = 50;[/font][/color]
				overcast = 0.01;
				alpha = 0;
				size = 0.1;
				height = 1;
				bright = 0.7;
				speed = 0;
				through = 1;
				diffuse = 1;
				cloudDiffuse = 0.95;
				waves = 0.2;
				lightingOvercast = 0;
			};
		};

[prykpryk 11]

Even better solution for the car light is to make beam not circular (like a flashlight, which needs to be boosted too) but flattened in order to shine on the road. However, I will be satisfied if the range will be increased significantly.

[xendance 3]

oh guys please add the possibility to define sky = "..." and horizon = "..." by sunangle too and not just by overcast

eg like this:

class Overcast: Overcast
		{
			class Weather8: Weather1
			{
				sky = "custom\sky_clear_sky.paa";
				skyR = "custom\sky_clear_lco.paa";
				horizon = "custom\sky_clear_horizont_sky.paa";
                                      [color="#FF0000"][font=Arial Black] sunAngle = 50;[/font][/color]
				overcast = 0.01;
				alpha = 0;
				size = 0.1;
				height = 1;
				bright = 0.7;
				speed = 0;
				through = 1;
				diffuse = 1;
				cloudDiffuse = 0.95;
				waves = 0.2;
				lightingOvercast = 0;
			};
		};

Care to elaborate a bit?

[fabio_chavez 103]

the way it is now skytextures can be defined by overcast only, so to speak, no matter if overcast 0.5 at midnight, sunrise or noon, you will always have to stick with the same texture.

if it was possible to define skytexture by sunangle too, that would give you endless new possibilitys to create photorealistic scenery.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

speaking of the sky, i noticed the clouds (Defined by overcast) are just set to one cloud layer, and that cloud layer is at one height. It would be interesting if they added, or hell, overhauled the weather module within Arma. For example, giving the possibilities to set new parameters, such as a lower cloud level, or higher clouds with small clouds beneath the cloud layer, as you'd see after a storm, or in certain weather conditions. Also, the whole sunangle thing is a good idea too.

[Tonci87 163]

Hey Devs, did you recently cahnge something about the nightime brightness levels? I just gave Showcases Night and Drones a spin and I remember them to be much darker than they are now. :confused:

[izaiak 1]

About light, will make REAL anti-collisions light for aircraft ? It flash at long range IRL, it is the goal of it. Same question for navigations lights.

Thank you.

[Guest]

I've a problem with the terrain's shadow, it just disappear.

Example with an hill (grid 052141, Altis), I'm not flying or something, my feet are on the ground :

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/13/1396023601-arma3-2014-03-28-17-16-45-28.png (4588 kB)

[Fushko 60]

I've a problem with the terrain's shadow, it just disappear.

Example with an hill (grid 052141, Altis), I'm not flying or something, my feet are on the ground :

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/13/1396023601-arma3-2014-03-28-17-16-45-28.png (4588 kB)

The problem is that terrain doesn't cast shadows and never did. I would love if they implemented terrain self-shadowing.

[izaiak 1]

Terrain / wall , etc ... the list goes on. There are lot of objects that don't cast shadows in arma ... DEVs time to do something ! :)

[2nd ranger 282]

Then there's that bug where shadows totally disappear if the sun is behind you and you turn in a certain direction.

[neodammerung 8]

Then there's that bug where shadows totally disappear if the sun is behind you and you turn in a certain direction.

It also happens with the moon, sadly nothing new... :(

[bonham 10]

The problem is that terrain doesn't cast shadows and never did. I would love if they implemented terrain self-shadowing.

I could swear when I loaded Chernarus into Arma 3 the first time the terrain casted a shadow, even beyond the 200 m shadow draw distance. Not just on itself but also on objects. It was a little glitchy and flickering but it doesn't appear to be like this with Chernarus plus any more though.

[sgtsev3n 12]

the indoor lighting needs improvement.

the lighting inside buildings is to bright. for example:

in some of these container buildings: http://www.arma3.com/images/post_images/container_buildings_prototypes.jpg

there are rooms without any holes or windows, if i remember correctly, the big tower in that picture has such a room where the stairs are located.

anyway, go into such a room where there are no windows or holes (no matter if its the tower or any other room/building) and close the door if you are inside such a room.

result: you can see everything, you do not have to use flashlight nor NVG. in real life (no matter if its day light or night time) if you close yourself inside a room without any windows, you would not see anything, it would be black dark and you have to use a flashlight or anything which give you a bright view.

same goes for caves or underground structures (i know in standart arma 3 they does not exist but still, even if we would have them we would have the same lighting problem there or you can take a look at namalsk, there is a underground bunker which has the same lighting problem)

or the underwater lighting needs improvement too... if you dive lower and lower, it must be darker and darker, in arma 3 if you dive to the lowest point, it is still bright.

[xendance 3]

the indoor lighting needs improvement.

the lighting inside buildings is to bright. for example:

in some of these container buildings: http://www.arma3.com/images/post_images/container_buildings_prototypes.jpg

there are rooms without any holes or windows, if i remember correctly, the big tower in that picture has such a room where the stairs are located.

anyway, go into such a room where there are no windows or holes (no matter if its the tower or any other room/building) and close the door if you are inside such a room.

result: you can see everything, you do not have to use flashlight nor NVG. in real life (no matter if its day light or night time) if you close yourself inside a room without any windows, you would not see anything, it would be black dark and you have to use a flashlight or anything which give you a bright view.

same goes for caves or underground structures (i know in standart arma 3 they does not exist but still, even if we would have them we would have the same lighting problem there or you can take a look at namalsk, there is a underground bunker which has the same lighting problem)

or the underwater lighting needs improvement too... if you dive lower and lower, it must be darker and darker, in arma 3 if you dive to the lowest point, it is still bright.

It's bright for a reason. If a person is playing without shadows a soldier inside a pitch black building will literally glow. Now that they aren't too dark, the soldiers blend with the overall lighting better.

[RushHour 11]

the indoor lighting needs improvement.

It sure does.

At least make it a bit more scientifically accurate. I´ve put a camping lantern inside the house. look at the ground close to the wall for example.

http://i.imgur.com/6UMx0x3.png (547 kB)

[nodunit 397]

It sure does.

At least make it a bit more scientifically accurate. I´ve put a camping lantern inside the house. look at the ground close to the wall for example.

http://i.imgur.com/6UMx0x3.png (547 kB)

Not going to happen unless they reduce the falloff, allow lights to cast shadows, create an occlusion culling LOD to place between the walls so that there is a rendering "deadzone" where said geometry is, which wouldn't produce shadows but would stop light from bleeding out where it shouldn't be.

[RushHour 11]

Sounds like a small fix rather then actually fixing the problem underneath. I doubt other game developers manually add occlusion LOD´s in every single wall to produce a rendering deadzone just to create the appearance of having a scientifically accurate lighting model.

[nodunit 397]

Sounds like a small fix rather then actually fixing the problem underneath. I doubt other game developers manually add occlusion LOD´s in every single wall to produce a rendering deadzone just to create the appearance of having a scientifically accurate lighting model.

Oh occlusion culling is no small fix, and has been in use for decades now. It is the magical tool that allows developers to render busy and highly populated scenes without the frame rate tanking, it is also very widely used in indoor lighting that connects to an outdoor outlet, otherwise how are you going to tell the inside that it doesn't share the same lighting properties as the outside world? Select each object and tick a box or add a line -shadowed-? It's not dynamic enough.

More important than achieving a dynamic lit scene is achieving the illusion of a dynamic lit scene, for example how many lights in these scenes are actively casting shadows?

http://www.primagames.com/media/files/eguide_assets/battlefield-4-eguide/346_373_BF4-web-resources/image/108428.png/PRIMAP/version/1.006/resize/980x-1%3E

http://i1.wp.com/www.denkiphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/review_bf401.jpg?w=900

Just one and that is on the top image with the sun...and yet they look alright don't they?

I propose that Arma suffers not so much from dynamic shadows but rather light bleeding where it shouldn't be, these two images demonstrate what I mean.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/lethalSakura/c13002.jpg

http://www.gnd-tech.com/image/i/F3dzK.jpg

Both images have only one light source casting a shadow, the moon..and yet the first image due to its lack of no light bleeding gives you the illusion that the lights can cast shadows because they don't go through surfaces.

For example..imagine you are in a L shaped hallway adjacent to a boxed room, the room has a light but the hallway does not, in its current state you would see the light bleeding into the hallway, instantly ruining the image.

With culling however the wall would block the light source which would prevent bleeding, making the hallway appear dark, giving the illusion that the light is casting a shadow.

Imagine a night scene, you see an APC driving up to you, there is a light active on the inside and it is constantly bleeding out..so you're watching this APC drive with an unseen light source that causes the ground around it to turn blue and the normals on the outside of the vehicle to reflect the light..the door on the back opens up but the lighting remains the same, it was bleeding out of the APC to begin with, looking very uncanny the whole time.

Now imagine that it is night again, the same APC is driving up only this time the passenger area is dark..the door opens and suddenly the blue light illuminates the ground around it but ONLY where the door is open....its not casting a shadow and yet you see the illusion of it doing so, you probably don't pick up on the fact that equipment on the inside isn't casting a shadow because your eyes have seen that there is a lit spot on the only where the door opens, so your mind is already thinking "Oh hey it casts shadows".

This method is used widely in the industry...next time you play a game, especially an indoor scene, pay very close attention to the lights, to which ones are post processing illuminating effects as opposed to actual lights, and then which ones cast any actual shadows.

Heres a doctored image of the example you gave vs the same thing but with culling.

There is no dynamic shadow, only places where the light is cancelled from rendering beyond the walls, left only with square openings where the windows are.

Edited April 6, 2014 by NodUnit

[CameronMcDonald 146]

^ +Möbius

:lecture:5chars:smash:

[Fushko 60]

Oh occlusion culling is no small fix, and has been in use for decades now. It is the magical tool that allows developers to render busy and highly populated scenes without the frame rate tanking, it is also very widely used in indoor lighting that connects to an outdoor outlet, otherwise how are you going to tell the inside that it doesn't share the same lighting properties as the outside world? Select each object and tick a box or add a line -shadowed-? It's not dynamic enough.

More important than achieving a dynamic lit scene is achieving the illusion of a dynamic lit scene, for example how many lights in these scenes are actively casting shadows?

http://www.primagames.com/media/files/eguide_assets/battlefield-4-eguide/346_373_BF4-web-resources/image/108428.png/PRIMAP/version/1.006/resize/980x-1%3E

http://i1.wp.com/www.denkiphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/review_bf401.jpg?w=900

Just one and that is on the top image with the sun...and yet they look alright don't they?

I propose that Arma suffers not so much from dynamic shadows but rather light bleeding where it shouldn't be, these two images demonstrate what I mean.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/lethalSakura/c13002.jpg

http://www.gnd-tech.com/image/i/F3dzK.jpg

Both images have only one light source casting a shadow, the moon..and yet the first image due to its lack of no light bleeding gives you the illusion that the lights can cast shadows because they don't go through surfaces.

For example..imagine you are in a L shaped hallway adjacent to a boxed room, the room has a light but the hallway does not, in its current state you would see the light bleeding into the hallway, instantly ruining the image.

With culling however the wall would block the light source which would prevent bleeding, making the hallway appear dark, giving the illusion that the light is casting a shadow.

Imagine a night scene, you see an APC driving up to you, there is a light active on the inside and it is constantly bleeding out..so you're watching this APC drive with an unseen light source that causes the ground around it to turn blue and the normals on the outside of the vehicle to reflect the light..the door on the back opens up but the lighting remains the same, it was bleeding out of the APC to begin with, looking very uncanny the whole time.

Now imagine that it is night again, the same APC is driving up only this time the passenger area is dark..the door opens and suddenly the blue light illuminates the ground around it but ONLY where the door is open....its not casting a shadow and yet you see the illusion of it doing so, you probably don't pick up on the fact that equipment on the inside isn't casting a shadow because your eyes have seen that there is a lit spot on the only where the door opens, so your mind is already thinking "Oh hey it casts shadows".

This method is used widely in the industry...next time you play a game, especially an indoor scene, pay very close attention to the lights, to which ones are post processing illuminating effects as opposed to actual lights, and then which ones cast any actual shadows.

Heres a doctored image of the example you gave vs the same thing but with culling.

There is no dynamic shadow, only places where the light is cancelled from rendering beyond the walls, left only with square openings where the windows are.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/NodUnit/lightexamp_zps6009f9a0.jpg

Thank you for writing down this excellent piece of post. I really hope the devs will implement this or dynamic shadows at some point.

[xendance 3]

Oh occlusion culling is no small fix, and has been in use for decades now. It is the magical tool that allows developers to render busy and highly populated scenes without the frame rate tanking, it is also very widely used in indoor lighting that connects to an outdoor outlet, otherwise how are you going to tell the inside that it doesn't share the same lighting properties as the outside world? Select each object and tick a box or add a line -shadowed-? It's not dynamic enough.

More important than achieving a dynamic lit scene is achieving the illusion of a dynamic lit scene, for example how many lights in these scenes are actively casting shadows?

http://www.primagames.com/media/files/eguide_assets/battlefield-4-eguide/346_373_BF4-web-resources/image/108428.png/PRIMAP/version/1.006/resize/980x-1%3E

http://i1.wp.com/www.denkiphile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/review_bf401.jpg?w=900

Just one and that is on the top image with the sun...and yet they look alright don't they?

I propose that Arma suffers not so much from dynamic shadows but rather light bleeding where it shouldn't be, these two images demonstrate what I mean.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w312/lethalSakura/c13002.jpg

http://www.gnd-tech.com/image/i/F3dzK.jpg

Both images have only one light source casting a shadow, the moon..and yet the first image due to its lack of no light bleeding gives you the illusion that the lights can cast shadows because they don't go through surfaces.

For example..imagine you are in a L shaped hallway adjacent to a boxed room, the room has a light but the hallway does not, in its current state you would see the light bleeding into the hallway, instantly ruining the image.

With culling however the wall would block the light source which would prevent bleeding, making the hallway appear dark, giving the illusion that the light is casting a shadow.

Imagine a night scene, you see an APC driving up to you, there is a light active on the inside and it is constantly bleeding out..so you're watching this APC drive with an unseen light source that causes the ground around it to turn blue and the normals on the outside of the vehicle to reflect the light..the door on the back opens up but the lighting remains the same, it was bleeding out of the APC to begin with, looking very uncanny the whole time.

Now imagine that it is night again, the same APC is driving up only this time the passenger area is dark..the door opens and suddenly the blue light illuminates the ground around it but ONLY where the door is open....its not casting a shadow and yet you see the illusion of it doing so, you probably don't pick up on the fact that equipment on the inside isn't casting a shadow because your eyes have seen that there is a lit spot on the only where the door opens, so your mind is already thinking "Oh hey it casts shadows".

This method is used widely in the industry...next time you play a game, especially an indoor scene, pay very close attention to the lights, to which ones are post processing illuminating effects as opposed to actual lights, and then which ones cast any actual shadows.

Heres a doctored image of the example you gave vs the same thing but with culling.

There is no dynamic shadow, only places where the light is cancelled from rendering beyond the walls, left only with square openings where the windows are.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/NodUnit/lightexamp_zps6009f9a0.jpg

What on earth is this magical culling that supposedly is easier to do than just render shadowmaps?