Dynamic Take And Secure - Randomized Round-Based No-Respawn A&D

[Angelo85 10]

Hi! First of all: very interesting and fun mode to play!

Played it for the first time today (Username "Thomas", perhaps you remember me? ;)) several hours at that.

What I noticed is that very often one team would get crushed / dominated significantly, resulting in several matches where one team didn't even get a single round win.

I don't know how hard this would be to implement but resulting from that experience I have a suggestion, to help balance teams that are uneven skill wise. My suggestion would be to add an advantage to the loosing team. Perhaps even the more rounds they loose in succession the better the advantage.

Say for instance (just an example, I have given no thoughts on balance for this ;)) the attacking team looses one round, next round they would get a single jeep with mounted HMG instead of the usual jeeps without weapons. If they loose the round again, next time they get 2 jeeps with HMGs. If they loose again now they get an armored APC. So basically increasing benefits. If they win a round the advantage gets taken away step by step. So if they would win round 3 (with armored APC in this example), the benefit would revert to "stage 2" with HMG jeeps.

What do you guys think about this idea? And more importantly: is it actually feasible to implement a system like this?

[galzohar 31]

It is possible, but it will take quite a bit of work to get all the scripting in place and even more work to make sure it isn't abusive and is fair (for example, which player will get to drive/gun the armored vehicle? Or do all squads get one? If all squads get one, how do you stop players from creating minimum-size squad just to get more?).

In the end, the goal of this mode is to provide simple, competitive and balanced PvP gameplay that can work well without respawns. Right now, if you haven't noticed, even objective locations and defense/attack rotation are swapped in a very fair manner - You get to attack and defend each location at least once (unless you will lose regardless of the next round's result), and for each zone you alternate between attacking first and defending first for extra fairness. I'm not too keen jumping into adding features that could potentially break this balance.

For now, I think the best idea is to simply switch teams to the losing team and try help them win, even if the numbers would become uneven.

Also, in case you noticed the occasional lag at the end of rounds, apparnetly latest dev build has it fixed, so as soon as BIS release their first patch those freezes will be gone and I can even go back to increasing the radius of the junk cleanup script to possibly cover the whole island again like it did with all other DTAS variations (in Stratis as well as all ArmA 2 islands where the entire island was cleared of junk in less than a second).

[samogon 10]

Hey Thomas,well play smarter,be smarter that your enemy.Not only gear matter,matter how you're use it.Be stealthly,move carefully,use covers in fireright,try to move as group at least 2 man is better that 1 etc.

@GalZohar

Well not even worse build.

But also,Gal,you're still in your own manner - give best for attack,give worse for defence.Well,can do same,as before,but I'm lazy,all rest doesn't do it too,but also requesting for some changes.

1)Change that bugged shemag textures to olive,tan colored hasn't texture.

2)The gear,well there is no armor in game,old good OFP system,with hitpoints.So typically it matter,what kind of soildier you place,not the gear that you wear.

So it's much well visible on vehicles,that on persons(Witch in ArmA mechanix is vehicle).Put an MRAP,put an APC,tank,whatever with 6.5 MG,and shoot it in the hull,untill they change texture or blow up.Typically you can do same with a pistol and tank,but you shall need a lot of time :cool:

So the point is - change the to be looking like guerilla.Usage of Vests and Chestrigs are much more natural for guerilla,that usage of they're not usage of belt with molle.They have no diffirence between armour,but looks way much better.

3)Attack classes - well in this kind of warfare some of them are not well needed.Such as Machinegunner.Typically 6.5x38 Grendel was created to replace both 5.56 and 7.62.And they have much better penetration power,but also have small recoil.As well,some countries after experience in Afghanistan takes 7.62 as LSW role,such as United Kindom and New Zeland(Minimi 7.62).So Zafir looks like this weapon,to light for GPMG.AT soldier - well enemies doesn't have armor,but not quote sure how useful they're against buildings.UAV operator/carrier - why not to create it as single class?Remember our limitation to snipers,to let they work with spotters and be much preciese?Well you actually does same :)

As well,i'd prefer to change attackers faction to AAF or CSAT(Urban camo will be great to me,also best weapon layout as Katiba/ABR/Zafir/RPG),because FIA looks like is "Freedom In Altis" and they are loyal to NATO.Don't be simulate this Palestine conflict,there is nothing to proud.

4)Defender classes - well there I'd prefer to keep them their default layouts as TRG/MK200/RPG.And also give a bit more rockets for RPG,because this isn't disposable launcher.Typical loadout for RPG32 is 2 AT and one HE(Thermobaric actually,but doesn't matter :) ).

Edited September 21, 2013 by samogon

[galzohar 31]

Well, I added a parameter for admin to select "improved defender equipment" for those who choose to use it.

If tan shemag is bugged I will change it, but can you show screenshot and also post link to bug in feedback.arma3.com (create one if needed)? For me it seems to be working, so please explain what bug you have with the texture.

The typical loadouts you talk about are for real army. For guerrilla they use what they can afford. In DTAS the guerrilla are very poor and cannot afford so many rockets (or grenades). Same for vests (only the "spec-ops" can afford a real vest :P). Though if you set "improved defender equipment" they will get "normal" vests and sights and some other improvements - Can afford more, so to say :)

As for defender weapons, for balance they have 5.56 weapons and not 6.5. I did not pick the TRG for them because Tavor is a western weapon, not terrorist/guerrilla weapon. For gameplay they are the same (though the MK20 sights are a bit more annoying to use, which is again good for balance). MG uses MXM because it has the smallest magazine of all the MGs (again for balance reasons).

For attacker classes they have all the options, if they don't think they need some classes they can pick others. If one class is too good though then I will make it less good (for example, less grenades for machinegunner and no grenades for sniper). In Altis I believe the sniper is not so powerful anymore because the villages are much nicer than in Stratis, so it's pretty balanced now. UAV carrier and operator are separated because UAV is very good so you have to "sacrifice" 2 people to use it. But if I see people don't use UAV at all maybe I will change it to need only 1 person.

So far I see people using all classes on both attack and defense (except maybe spotter), so I think they are in a pretty good state. Maybe only some small tweaks in the future.

[_triumph_ 10]

I am seeing a ton of players that enjoy this mode. Excellent implementation here! It's still fun after more than a few 4-6 hour sessions. Now if only we would see servers that are as active as the battlefield game mode knock-offs.

Useful Features for Pub operations:

*Note I’ve only played DTAS on Elite settings so far. I Hope I am not over looking the obvious*

A more direct and clear explanation or FAQ of gamemode/rules/features for new players. For example a high-res loading screen, a billboard at the kit selection lobby. Something more accessible for those who crave instant gratification and may otherwise disconnect or be lost for a few rounds without asking questions to other players.

Vehicle Lock

Repair Option for Vehicles

Ability to see who is speaking @ all times

Ability to see who is in your vehicle

Always GPS on or GPS removal options at parameters

Remove inability to steal/police enemy gear EXCEPT uniform

Flavor:

The Opfor guerilla outfits could use some spice so that way when blufor attacks they can easily take note of what they are attacking and call out specifically what they see without just seeing the weapon. U_IG_Guerilla2_3 and leader are good looking.

I think it is possible to have some Hex flavored classes without having them look like future force aliens from the planet Xiranu 5.

Something along the lines of:

Officer fatigues (Hex): “U_O_OfficerUniform_ocamoâ€

Vest: “V_HarnessOSpec_brnâ€

Or: “V_TacVest_brnâ€

Headgear: "H_beret_blk"

Or: “H_MilCap_ocamoâ€

This is a gateway to allow you to allow players to use Katiba 6.5 mm and not give them a lot of ammo with it.

Kit balance and keypoints:

Introduce tracer rounds to work in some more resource management and to allow players to implicitly spot targets. This might help pub games a lot and will help you balance out potentially overpowered classes for distance combat.

Allow player choice between the ACO red and Holosight for Blu forces.

Allow Blu to survive more attrition through an extra grenade and first aid kit. For example a rifleman with an ACO Red has 3 frag, 3 smoke, 2 first aid kit

Introduce the m14 as a marksmen to help in corridors where players would normally lay & spray with a zafir.

If you want to create sides that feel more unique I suggest adding assistant classes to the Guerilla faction. These are basically ammo bearers for specialized roles. And you make specialized classes such as LMG and RPG reliant upon having a partner even if it just means a friend spawns in as that class and pops down his backpack some place for you.

LMG with Mk200 6.5 mm alone will be fine for small matches. However as server size expands he will require a friend. If he wants optics or fights at night he loses some utility. This will help newbies focus on firing and relocating. Tracers also ensure that blu can only have trouble in cqc as it will be clear where an ACO gunner is. The LMG gunners are distinguished by their uniform that is blue and olive green. It’s clear who they are, what they can do and players can choose the difficulty curve if they’re not used to the weapon.

An assistant will play a minor medical role, can attempt to spot even though he does not have gun optics, he can help guide the LMG fire for long range targets for those times where there is open ground. His clear downsides are a lack of frags and optics. Also he’s obvious due to his uniform and backpack and that is good. Now blu can attempt to prioritize targets.

Class 8 – GreenFor LMG

LMG Gunner A – LMG Frag

Uniform: Guerilla Smocks addUniform"U_IG_Guerilla2_3";, Slash Bandolier (olive) "V_bandollierB_oli";

Hat: Shemag (olive)

Weapon: Mk200 6.5 mm

Mags: 1x 6.5mm 200Rnd Belt Case

Items: Binoculars

Explosives: 2x RGOFrag Grenade, 2x Green Smoke

Class Gunner B - LMG Tracer Aco

Uniform: Guerilla Smocks addUniform"U_IG_Guerilla2_3"; Slash Bandolier (olive) "V_bandollierB_oli";

Hat: Shemag (olive)

Weapon: Mk200 6.5 mm LMG_Mk200_F"

Mags: 2x 6.5mm 200Rnd Tracer (Green) Belt Case

Items: Flashlight, Green Aco

Explosives: 2x Green Smoke

Class C – LMG Ammo Assistant

Uniform: Guerilla leader , Carryall Backpack (Olive)

addUniform"U_IG_leader" addbackpack "B_carryall_base"

Hat: none

Weapon: Mk20 5.56 mm

Mags: 3x 5.56mm 30rnd STANAG mag , 3x 5.56mm 30rnd Tracer (Green) Mag, 1x 6.5mm 200Rnd Belt Case, 1x 6.5mm 200Rnd Tracer (Green) Belt Case

Items: 2x First Aid Kit, Binoculars

Explosives: 2x Green Smoke

RPG Operators are not as punishing anymore but they stick out like a sore thumb and can’t stay engaged with the enemy due to their weapon being a pistol. They need a friend, an assistant to tag along. All of this is at the cost of being able to make a mistake or extremely punish a poor blitz opening.

Class D –RPG Operator

Uniform: Guerilla addUniform"U_IG_Guerilla2_2"; Range Master Belt V_Rangemaster_belt , addbackpack "B_fieldpack_Base"

Hat: Shemag (olive)

Weapon: ACP-CS .45 , RPG “launch_rpg32_fâ€;

Mags: 5X .45 ACP 9Rnd Mag

Items: None

Explosives: 2x Green Smoke, 2x RPG-42 Missile

Class E –RPG Assistant

Uniform: Guerilla leader , Carryall Backpack (Olive)

addUniform"U_IG_leader" addbackpack "B_carryall_base"

Hat: none

Weapon: Mk20c 5.56 mm (camo)

Mags: 3x 5.56mm 30rnd STANAG mag , 3x 5.56mm 30rnd Tracer (Green) Mag

Items: 2x First Aid Kit, Binoculars

Explosives: 2x Green Smoke, 2x RPG-42 Missile

A few notes

Guerilla irons are not that fun to use.

UAV should be a one man class. Also I think UAV users may be punished by the AFK timer.

A lot of Friendly Fire happens because of the blufor autorifle being for opfor. I think there is a way to add belts that contain only 100 rounds for the LMG_MK200. Even without that, giving it tracer rounds and starting a player with only one belt would be just fine. If the irons are not fun then an ACO green would be fine as well.

The zafir has to go. It feels over the top when players could be using an m14 with attachments that are inline with their faction. Right now it’s clearly a top tier weapon and trading the sights with a marksmen on blu makes it even better for wide open spaces.

Also, M14s with ARCO would put an end to the issue of seeing a lot of pubs attempting to snipe in urban combat where targets are less than 50m away and it would also stop me from being able to pull off the scope and run around with a railgun as if this was a completely arcade arena shooter.

If anything I am saying sounds solid then take a look at this set of classes I came up with.

http://pastebin.com/kEZsVj5U

The defender skin and attachment suggestions would be great to see.

[galzohar 31]

Vehicle locking is not needed, as you already start at your own spawn point with your own squad already positioned inside your vehicles. If you don't want someone in your vehicle, kick him from your squad with the squad management menu.

Repairing vehicles won't happen because the mission is simply too short for repair to server any meaningful purpose. Vehicles are just for transport and disembark then attack the objective on foot. If it's broken then you are probably better off walking rather than repairing even if you have the ability to repair... So repair is pretty pointless basically and not realistic anyway.

Assistants are possible, but in the end feel weird because one can carry both a backpack and a launcher. A script must then be implemented to restrict a player from picking up a backpack when he has a launcher already. But it's possible. Worst case people won't want to play as assistant and not use the class.

As for MG assistant, even with 200-300 rounds those guys don't *really* run out of ammo during a DTAS round, so nobody will use it and I won't even bother with assistants for them.

Skins - The only reasonable guerrilla skin right now is the one I'm using. When there are more I will consider adding them, though if there is a better one available it'll probably just replace the current one, as I don't like the green digital camo pants for guerrillas, and only use them because of their unique gray t-shirt. Anything that helps distinguish between opfor and bluefor without making them look ridiculous is good. Anything that will just cause more confusion or look outright ugly is pretty bad IMO.

The zafir - It is a good weapon, yes. But without the scope not the most useful at very long ranges (and trading scope with a marksman just leaves you with 1 guy who has basically nothing special, so it's not like it's a very good tactic anyway), where the sniper and marksman are superior. In the end, as long as there are people using all classes, I think the situation is not so bad. Of course you can feel free to open/vote on bug for Bohemia to tweak the zafir recoil to more reasonable levels, as it is probably too low at the moment.

RPG with no real weapon is unacceptable as that would be useless. Usually you take an RPG to prevent the enemy from being able to rush forward with vehicles, but if they don't rush forward with vehicles you are left with nothing. At least with a rifle you can still play. If the RPG class had no rifle I would never even think about taking it even if it had 5 rockets. Currently the only way an RPG guy will "punish" you is if you drive like an idiot too close to the zone instead of disembarking at a safe distance and making your way on foot.

UAV operator and AFK timer should be fixed already (though I don'y remember if it is already in the latest release version or the next release).

If you have any ideas for how to explain the game mode to new players in a way that they will actually read then please let me know (after you tried it and saw that it is read-able and your newbie friends could read it and understand what to do as a result) and I will add it. So far anything I have tried resulted in people simply not reading, so I went back to a simple briefing that explains everything plus a notification at the start and end of every round letting you know what you need to do and why the round ended. If people don't even read that simple notification that pops in the top center of their screen at the start of each round, then I really don't know what they will read. I did extend the notification duration from 8 to 12 seconds for next version.

[samogon 10]

Wiered Shemag right?I can see US flag,scope texture etc.

I'm talking about "V_Chestrig_khk" and "V_TacVest_khk" instead "V_BandollierB_oli".They're looks much natural,that MOLLE hunting belt :)

As for defender weapons, for balance they have 5.56 weapons and not 6.5. I did not pick the TRG for them because Tavor is a western weapon, not terrorist/guerrilla weapon. For gameplay they are the same (though the MK20 sights are a bit more annoying to use, which is again good for balance). MG uses MXM because it has the smallest magazine of all the MGs (again for balance reasons).

F2000 are Belgian assault rifle,as far as know,they're never create "Cheap" weapon,also uses only by Special Forces.Tavor is become Standart Service rifle for IDF,you should know that.So mk.20 is not AK like weapon,buggy.

MX SW have smaller magazine,in case of realism - US army/MC uses 100rnd belt box now,because they're much more ergonimic(easier to handle and lighter),instead 200rnd belt box(they're not comfortable to combat in stand poses,only one advantage if you use bipod.).

Not sure,if even this guerilla found launcher,and they doesn't found missiles for them it sounds... wierd.As we seen in Afghan,well this guys poor and don't have food,wear,gear,but still have a lot of ammo cache.And usually they have suppiles from 3th side.

About "weapon" balance,well what can do monkey if give them grenade?Don't be sure in your weapon,pretty sure that smart player can do more with pistol,that dumbass with a nuke bomb.

Well why I dislike MX SW on defence side - because they sounds like MX.Usually if I see flash,if I hear sound I'll usually drop there grenade,if don't see.

UAV carrier and operator are separated because UAV is very good so you have to "sacrifice" 2 people to use it.

Just give them PDW,and your "Balance" dielema will be closed.They usefull like sniper,means - they almost doesn't help to assault.

Edited September 22, 2013 by samogon

[_triumph_ 10]

Vehicle locking is not needed, as you already start at your own spawn point with your own squad already positioned inside your vehicles. If you don't want someone in your vehicle, kick him from your squad with the squad management menu.

Locking is about making sure a car isn't taken after jumping out of it. Even when playing against people in clans we've been able to run people over with their cars. Currently it's "Please take a class that has a silenced pistol so we can shoot the tire out."

Repairing vehicles won't happen because the mission is simply too short for repair to server any meaningful purpose. Vehicles are just for transport and disembark then attack the objective on foot. If it's broken then you are probably better off walking rather than repairing even if you have the ability to repair... So repair is pretty pointless basically and not realistic anyway.

I've seen the car get a tire wrecked within a few to 30seconds and then dudes have to play, and I quote "a fun walking simulator" for most or all of of the round. Sure it doesn't happen at 500/600 meter with a time limit of 6/7 but double those numbers and the chance for accidents and grief increases greatly. And at the moment i don't think its possible to see who is driving a car on elite so it's harder for me to kick a troll without the troll be overly stupid or obvious.

And yes, I am that worried about player retention.

If you have any ideas for how to explain the game mode to new players in a way that they will actually read then please let me know (after you tried it and saw that it is read-able and your newbie friends could read it and understand what to do as a result) and I will add it. So far anything I have tried resulted in people simply not reading, so I went back to a simple briefing that explains everything plus a notification at the start and end of every round letting you know what you need to do and why the round ended. If people don't even read that simple notification that pops in the top center of their screen at the start of each round, then I really don't know what they will read. I did extend the notification duration from 8 to 12 seconds for next version.

There are simply people I have to FAQ on the server over and over and over again. I think a custom loading screen is the answer.

Some top questions i see are:

Who am I/Who do i shoot at (Even in a sea of blu or gur skins before the round start)

Why am I now (attacker/defender)

What weapons are in these classes (or the difference between a rifle and a spec or lmg and the other)

What is (default) hotkey for GPS / What is GPS.

Less asked:

How do i pick a group

how do i place a jeep/helo/boat

---

The answers are all obvious 1-liners.

With those given a custom loading screen would be the best way to force someone to read a short FAQ with a picture of your blufor attacker and guerrilla defender skins explicitly stated as attacker and defender. They have to be AFK for them to miss it. And in case that happens I am pretty sure you can stick the image to the face of an object like one of those signs in the showcases inside the predeployment zone. Two layers of redundancy, great, now a server message can say read the FAQ at deployment or i type "FAQ" instead of giving a lecture. :D

The "What weapons are in these classes (or the difference between a rifle and a spec or lmg and the other)" question could be solved with a more clear name like " Rifle Aco 1x Grenade 2x Smoke" or "KitA: Rifle Aco 1x Grenade 2x Smoke" if something else is too much information for an FAQ image.

Assistants are possible, but in the end feel weird because one can carry both a backpack and a launcher. A script must then be implemented to restrict a player from picking up a backpack when he has a launcher already. But it's possible. Worst case people won't want to play as assistant and not use the class.

RPG with no real weapon is unacceptable as that would be useless.

I thought you were giving them the junk 556 without anything else to keep the class from being stupid-fun and more punishing to the defenders just for anti rush. And in the case of a guy having more rockets he will end up using them on the enemy. And if you want to talk about weird lets all just yell at BI for having an RPG that clips through the players model. Overall a backpack will make a hiding troops profile larger and the tan sticks out making the player have to think. Would it ever be smarter to carry the backpack instead of putting it in a smart place while defending a sector and if one player does carry a ton of weight to rambo he will be punished by the current stamina system. If max punishment is wanted then the iirc Carryall weighs the most, has a huge profile to punish prone sitting. It's an option even though the rpg itself would be next to it instead of inside of it.

As for MG assistant, even with 200-300 rounds those guys don't *really* run out of ammo during a DTAS round, so nobody will use it and I won't even bother with assistants for them.

The zafir - .......

3v3, 4v4, I sit on a point, i agree, I don't think I'll run out of ammo with just a single belt. But one belt means constant suppression is a hard choice and as player numbers go up you are going to want to become more than a left-click hold rifleman. If an ammo bearer sucks that much then an Aco will make it much more playable without feeling the need for a kabitha or the other 5.56 rifle.

In the instance I was refering to I was able to trade for a holo and have a 7.62 marksmen machinegunner allowing me to take the holo acrossed half a click of open field and then win in CQC against guys in cover when th zaf could only suppress. Would be cooler just to deploy an MG mount (no thermals) for situations like that.

Personally I am fine with guns being able to hit things. I'm just not fine with symmetrical balancing as a bandaid or the best and most obvious choice besides grenadier being something that can rambo spray and pray while penetrating with ease. I've been on both sides of the gun and I think there is a situation to be made here where someone with an MG can feel powerful without needing to have the situation becoming some level of ridiculousness like going zaf every time i can as guerilla just to have easy mode due to depressing 5.56 power.

Skins - The only reasonable guerrilla skin right now is the one I'm using. When there are more I will consider adding them, though if there is a better one available it'll probably just replace the current one, as I don't like the green digital camo pants for guerrillas, and only use them because of their unique gray t-shirt. Anything that helps distinguish between opfor and bluefor without making them look ridiculous is good. Anything that will just cause more confusion or look outright ugly is pretty bad IMO.

Blue shirt and olive pants guerilla skin which i think is Guerilla2_3 mixed with the vest that is V_TacVest_camo or V_TacVest_Olive will produce a solid result.

The shemagopen_tan does clip. I have a lot of trouble getting the green one to clip.

Here are some pictures: http://imgur.com/a/9ETiB#1

Even if you think i am going over board I still think you can get four similar unique set ups for each side. GL harness vest + whatever shirt is 1, backpack with whatever shirt is 2, blu shirt green pants TacVest 3, grey camo shirt 4. Blufor is as easy as swap a helm for a booniehat and/or remove the vest / GL harness. And for stratis, what is more ridiculous? Future force alien outfits or a vest covering up a normal uniform with a star or two showing?

UAV operator and AFK timer should be fixed already (though I don'y remember if it is already in the latest release version or the next release).

Great to know!

No matter what happens I hope to see your game mode grow in popularity and rival what the funky hi,a3 servers are running.

[galzohar 31]

So, what I am thinking for next version (along with some fixes already implemented and maybe another bug I might fix if I can reproduce it reliably):

- Zaphir with no sights at all. Script to prevent attaching sights.

- RPG assistant for defenders with 2 rockets in a backpack, but you cannot take the backpack if you have an RPG.

- Replace the broken shemag (though I really hate the green color for defenders, which would be even worse when IDF units are used for attackers).

- Defenders can no longer use vehicles.

If you want to design an informative loading screen and can compress it to under 50~100kb I can put that in the mission as well. Same goes for a sign texture.

I'll try see how long I can make the action names without it going out of hand, and also see if I can make it automatic so future changes will be easy to make.

You can tell who is driving your vehicle as he's the only one who has his name not faded out on your map/gps. If you zoom in on your map you should be able to see the rest. Anything else (like proper UI) would require too much work at the moment. Same goes for anything else that would have been better with UI (such as group management, loadout selection and insertion selection). A script that will give you a hint of who's in your vehicle when you press the spacebar might be possible, I'll try see if it can get reasonable results when I have the time.

[_triumph_ 10]

Looks solid.

- Zaphir with no sights at all. Script to prevent attaching sights.

That still doesn't solve the ability to rambo through CQC and if I give it to defenders then it becomes the number one weapon to use. Without it the response I hear is "if I didn't have this (5.56)ing weapon I would have been able to (get something done)."

It just should not be there.

Thanks for the info on cars. A look will allow me to keep track of who may need to be kicked.

[galzohar 31]

Zafir for defenders will be replaced with MX even when improved defender equipment is selected.

5.56 weapons kill just fine, even if slightly less effective than 6.5 or 7.62.

Also, keep in mind that most noobs who can't drive will generally also not select the "prefer driving" option (which is disabled by default). Just make sure to tell your trusted squad members to select it. And then if some public player selects it anyway and drives, you can still kick him of course by looking at your gps/map and see the non-faded name.

[SavageCDN 231]

You can tell who is driving your vehicle as he's the only one who has his name not faded out on your map/gps. If you zoom in on your map you should be able to see the rest. Anything else (like proper UI) would require too much work at the moment. Same goes for anything else that would have been better with UI (such as group management, loadout selection and insertion selection). A script that will give you a hint of who's in your vehicle when you press the spacebar might be possible, I'll try see if it can get reasonable results when I have the time.

Have you tried this? I've used it in A2 before not sure if it works in A3 though:

http://www.kellys-heroes.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4367

[_triumph_ 10]

Zafir for defenders will be replaced with MX even when improved defender equipment is selected.

5.56 weapons kill just fine, even if slightly less effective than 6.5 or 7.62.

Also, keep in mind that most noobs who can't drive will generally also not select the "prefer driving" option (which is disabled by default). Just make sure to tell your trusted squad members to select it. And then if some public player selects it anyway and drives, you can still kick him of course by looking at your gps/map and see the non-faded name.

Well I'm hearing frustration in the 556 vs 762 match up and I know from experience that spray and pray doesn't pay off so well with m14's which would also smash 2 birds 1 stone the call of duty style railgunning possibility.

MX or the Mk200? The MX issue is also a big source of frustration because of (primarily) the sound and the model scaring the heck out of players that are not mini-map aware.

"LMG_Mk200_pointer_F";

this addMagazine ["200rnd_65x39_cased_box", 100];

this addmagazine ["200rnd_65x39_cased_box", 100];

this additem "optic_ACO_grn";

A brute band-aid. I'm sure there is a more clever way about things. If the issue is the name of the weapon or the name of the ammo box not being in line with a customized X > or X < 200 then the kit name can be changed to reflect the belt size if adding new objects is a bother or an issue. Players will be well informed about what they're getting into. And if the issue is the gun sucking then try it out after going prone and hitting ctrl + W. The sitting position makes it awesome for accuracy and recoil in a semi-exposed stance without having too much damage output and I already mentioned ACO vs Non Aco. Perfect for the defenders. And if that is too much still then bump it down to a 75 round belt.

I don't think anyone who is default spawning knows what "prefer driving" really is. I still don't wish to see 4 of 12 guys not have fun because someone went forward, hit M, and then smashed into whatever object that destroys tonka tough tires.

Edited September 23, 2013 by _triumph_

[galzohar 31]

If you don't read the briefing and don't join a squad, you should deal with the consequences of having a bad driver. He can also drive you off a cliff or into an RPG. Where does it end? Anything that resembles realism that supports repairing tires would still make it better to walk after you broke your car. I really don't want to mess with repair scripts in a 10-minute mission. Your vehicle (and players) is supposed to be invulnerable (or at least as invulnerable as BIS allows) for the first 30 seconds of the round. If someone doesn't look at his options, doesn't read the briefing and doesn't read the popups (and I did have much more extensive popups in another mission before that absolutely nobody was reading), there is little I can do to help him. He probably won't know how to repair anyway. Let's just say the people at the default insertion should be grateful they even get an insertion and aren't left waiting for next round, because honestly if you're not in a squad you're probably hurting the overall experience for the rest of the players who do try to work together (and yes, you can tell them to join your squad and help them out. Hopefully the game grows enough so that there is at least 1 squad on a server with a leader that is willing to explain stuff to new players, because honestly that's the only way people learn nowadays as they will read absolutely nothing).

I might add an M14 class but honestly I believe that if I do it will become the new rifleman that everyone are using. Right now the only 7.62 weapon will be with iron sights and come with no grenades. If it's still too good I'll consider removing it, but I think iron sights and no grenades will be enough for people to consider other weapons.

To prevent "spray and pray" in CQB I'd have to remove all MGs completely and/or wait for BIS to improve weapon handling. Both are not very feasible.

[_triumph_ 10]

There are differences between accidents, acts of trolling, and incompetence. There is no doubt that all three can and will happen in a game space. Solid design limits the punishment of the first two on others and attempts to keep the third from ruining the game before it has truly started. Perfect example of the third is reiterating kit balance and design. That is terrific.

Anything that resembles realism that supports repairing tires would still make it better to walk after you broke your car.

Does this resemble fun? Is your player paramount? The design of your mode is telling me that this is a game. And if this is a game indeed, then fun factor is driving and the road is the theme and other important elements.

Hopefully the game grows enough....

You're selling us short and sweet rounds which is great for promoting growth. Instant gratification is what it is all about and arma rarely provides that. So far the pop stars are selling adventure. Your business looks like action. But here stating that you're frustrated and not willing to smooth out issues that come along with providing that unique, sweet experience. That extra step to provide that good first, smooth, experience and being able to overcome hiccups is what I think player retention is all about. The mode you have here does provide the setting for some excellent moments even when people are in that default car. I've had games where a group of guys are with me on TS and we meet a scout and draw a whole bunch of defenders towards us and the default car guys on in-game VOIP (or not) ends up winning the game just because you designed the game to implicitly group people, preparing them for success.

Smooth out more of the issues and you have pure gold that is playable for the lower and shorter options where somethings, like cars, don't matter and the upper where distance and time increase and the chance of muck ups increase. Otherwise I don't see the point in offering options if you're just considering a set optimal experience that includes punishment at the cost of fun factor.

I jumped on what I have observed to be the most popular not-wasteland PvP mode. It used a 20 second repair time for my test involving popping a tire. If you do find an implementation that isn't consuming too many of your personal resources then 20 seconds might be the magic starting place to avoid comments like "arma walking simulator."

For an m14 being an issue I would apply your current machine gun logic (No nades, limited or no optics) and dial up from there to make sure the introduction or switch is smooth. High damage is inviting, low ammo count and control of mag count is the primary factor in my eyes.

To prevent "spray and pray" in CQB I'd have to remove all MGs completely and/or wait for BIS to improve weapon handling. Both are not very feasible.

I haven't heard any issues about rifles doing it or your blufor mk200 which is why i am mentioning options to promote reloading for incompetence while retaining high potential DPS output. In fact I am pretty sure that I am punished for spraying with my 556's.

And I do what I can to hold hands and inform. Many times I find it fun. I've noticed that the iterative design process helps a lot more than myself being a conscious set of string macros ever will.

[galzohar 31]

Version 1.06:

- Machinegunner now has zafir with no sights and no grenades. Sights cannot be attached to zafir in any situation.

- UAV operator now also carries the UAV, but has only TRG for a weapon.

- Defenders now have an RPG assistant class carrying 3 RPG rockets in a backpack. However, you cannot carry an RPG and a backpack at the same time.

- Defender shemag replaced with the green one, as the tan was clipping with the head.

- "Defender Gear Quality" set to "Improved" now gives their automatic rifleman an extra magazine rather than a zafir.

- Defenders can no longer use vehicles.

- Gear dropped to the ground is now also cleared inside the spawn areas (until the next patch where cleaning the entire island without freezing the server will be possible again).

- Attackers will now be teleported next to their vehicle before being moved into their designated slot, hopefully working around a potential bug that could happen if someone manually moved to a player's designated vehicle seat while that player was lagging.

- Added a warning that will show if the server FPS drops under 20.

- Added a warning that will show if the server is running difficulty settings unsuitable for PvP or for hardcore realism.

[galzohar 31]

Video from Saturday's games:

[iceman77 18]

Galzohar I played your mission for hours with some old friends today, along side of _triumph_ actually. I really like the concept and the way you've implemented it. I would like to make a request; Make an optional parameter to allow for 1 MBT for the attackers in certain, maybe even random cases. The opposition would be tasked with taking it out with AT & even mines too. Maybe it could serve as a bonus objective or something. Also, the MBT would only be operational with a full player crew, to add to the immersion of this already fantastic mission.

It would be cool to feel or deliver the "virtual" fear of a deadly MBT. In the case of your mission's style, with no respawn, it would fit in perfectly. People would truly respect & fear an MBT presence in such a scenario.

Note: forgive me if there is already such a parameter or option.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Iceman77

[galzohar 31]

Sorry, but it's quite out of scope right now. Combining the technical effort required with the balancing effort required adds up to too much right now. Thing like how to decide who the hell gets to use the tank, how to make sure it is actually used (rather than just left at spawn so it doesn't get destroyed for an auto-loss), and lots of other possible issues that something like this can cause. There is basically no good way to get this in the mission, and any changes to the rules will require a lot of work adding it properly and then testing for bugs and of course playtesting with enough players for balance.

If you want vehicles you should check out Escalation, where vehicles are balanced by their score value if they are abandoned or destroyed, both sides having the same quality of vehicles and equipment, longer respawn times for heavier vehicles (so once destroyed it is out of the action for a while) and the simple fact it takes longer to bring one to the field than getting there on foot from an MHQ or driving there with a jeep.

In DTAS an MBT will simply be too good, and will thus have to be balanced by excessively improved AT capability for defense, and/or limited only to a select few players resulting in anyone not getting to be selected to quit in frustration. Some ideas look cool on the forums but when you think about how to actually put it in the mission and make it works they don't sound so cool anymore, not to mention after actually trying to play with those ideas in-game (and yes, I had to scrap a lot of ideas that took me a very long time to script simply because the gameplay ended up not being enjoyable enough).

Since overall serious PvP missions are simply not played much at all (at least not when I look at the server browser), I'd rather focus on trying to fix/improve any critical issues that do come up when games actually do happen, rather than trying to add a lot of options that will not be used often enough in order to actually make them good. And lets face it - Something that barely gets played simply cannot be improved enough to be worth people's time. If there were multiple DTAS servers active at any given time, then variations might have had a bit higher priority (though again that tank idea simply won't be easy and maybe even impossible to make it work properly).

Edited October 10, 2013 by galzohar

[BL1P 35]

This looks very interesting indeed.

Will defiantly be giving this a try.

Btw loving the serverwarnings.

Do you think you can do a gamma and brightness check in the same way ?

So that if a client takes their gamma or brightness above the default level it kills\warns or does something to them ?

This would help alot with night time missions.

[galzohar 31]

Gamma and brightness check is impossible, since as far as I'm aware this setting is not accessible via scripts.

Additionally, some people have darker monitors than others, so forcing a certain setting will still be extremely unfair. It's a problem that really cannot be fixed without everyone using the exact same hardware. I've had night missions where with default gamma and brightness some people saw perfectly fine while others were staring at a black screen.

[BL1P 35]

Gamma and brightness check is impossible, since as far as I'm aware this setting is not accessible via scripts.

Additionally, some people have darker monitors than others, so forcing a certain setting will still be extremely unfair. It's a problem that really cannot be fixed without everyone using the exact same hardware. I've had night missions where with default gamma and brightness some people saw perfectly fine while others were staring at a black screen.

Shame it cant be done.

I understand some may have problems same as some get motion sickness without 3rd on.

But alot use the gamma to make night irrelevant. not because they can only see a black screen.

Anyway thanks for the swift and concise reply`s.

[galzohar 31]

It's not the same as motion sickness. Some people just have darker monitors, so for their monitor to show the same image as yours they need a different setting. You cannot tell the difference between someone who increased gamma because his monitor is dark to someone who increased the gamma because he wants to make night look like day, even if it was possible to check the setting from a script (which is not possible as far as I know).

[BL1P 35]

It's not the same as motion sickness. Some people just have darker monitors, so for their monitor to show the same image as yours they need a different setting. You cannot tell the difference between someone who increased gamma because his monitor is dark to someone who increased the gamma because he wants to make night look like day, even if it was possible to check the setting from a script (which is not possible as far as I know).

No worries Ill jsut play with only daytime param to save on any problems :)

[_triumph_ 10]

This looks very interesting indeed.

Will defiantly be giving this a try.

Btw loving the serverwarnings.

Do you think you can do a gamma and brightness check in the same way ?

So that if a client takes their gamma or brightness above the default level it kills\warns or does something to them ?

This would help alot with night time missions.

Try playing night missions with heavy fog or rain to keep the need to blast the brightness up to see well across the map from happening.