Correct military ranks for ARMA3

[Waingro 10]

Dear Bohemia Devs,

Being former military, one thing about the OFP/Arma series has kind of irritated me over the years. I don't feel that there is enough granularity in the editor when choosing rank for personnel. We've gotten the ranks of Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, Major, and Colonel for years now. What about the other ranks? I want to see E-1 through E-9, O-1 through O-10, and W-1 through W-5 ranks represented for all services including the U.S. Coast Guard. The E, O, and W designation aren't important, but let's get it right and represent all ranks by their specific service nomenclature. For example a U.S. Air Force E-4 is a Senior Airman or abbreviated SrA and a U.S. Navy E-6 is a Petty Officer First Class or abbreviated PO1. Let's get it right this time. While we're at it, let's get the ranks represented for the militaries of nations other than the U.S.

I know this may sound very trite to some, but it's always irritated me when playing as a U.S. Air Force Combat Controller (mod of course) and the rank is set to Corporal for example. The series has always had a high degree of realism/authenticity - let's get it right. Hell, I'll even do all the research for you and draft it up and e-mail it to you.

What does everyone else think?

[Brain 12]

Ranks are different throughout a lot of militaries in the world and the world does not just revolve around the USA.

Also, if you have enough time to bother about ranks, you obviously don't face enough enemies :P

I mean, how often do you encounter the ranks ingame?

[zaksle75 1]

In VBS 2.0 (superior to ARMA series) or whatever version they would put the ranks on a soldier in editor and it would show the insignia on their chest / uniform wherever the US Army had it. ARMA 3 could use that, and should have more ranks yeah. Not many people care bout the weaker countries they can just make it be like in ARMA 2 theres Blufor > US Army / BAF, US Army can have more ranks than BAF units or something idk.

[antoineflemming 14]

Ranks are different throughout a lot of militaries in the world and the world does not just revolve around the USA.

Also, if you have enough time to bother about ranks, you obviously don't face enough enemies :P

I mean, how often do you encounter the ranks ingame?

And he mentioned putting in the ranks of other nations' militaries. I made a thread about realistic AI/human commanding, and about actually having in-game leaders delegating to their subordinate leaders (platoon leaders > squad leaders > team leaders) and about getting rid of AI micro-management. Having more ranks would help facilitate that. That way, you can have your squad leaders (your Staff Sergeants for the US Army for example) commanding your team leaders (your Sergeants) without having them both be Sergeants as is currently in-game. It can facilitate better hierarchical simulation in-game.

Yes, it very much is important. If you play anything in Arma where you are either commanding or being commanding by someone else (AI or human), then yeah, you will encounter ranks in-game. Now, maybe the German army doesn't have any sort of rank structure, unit structure, or any military discipline, I don't know (although I highly doubt this is the case), but at the very least, since we are playing as the US Army in Arma 3, I for one would like for BIS to get it right. Oh, and just for your information, I don't even care what other ranks are considered. For the purpose of Arma 3, the ONLY ranks that matter are those of Iran and the United States Army. I'm sorry if that offends you (since apparently the mere mention of US ranks has brought out the usual "there are more countries than the US" rant), but those are the factions BIS decided to put in the game. You don't like that, you can find another game to play.

At the very least, if BIS could add in the functionality to create custom ranks, that would enable any modder to give proper ranks to his/her custom units, specific to the intended nationality of those units. I think this and proper unit structure (as in your company commanders controlling 3 platoon leaders, platoon leaders controlling 3 squad leaders, squad leaders controlling 3 team leaders) are very important for a game that's supposed to be focused on proper infantry simulation. If BIS is unwilling to do this and to make this right, then I'd say they aren't really focused on proper infantry simulation.

[Harzach 2507]

The ranks in the editor are only for assigning unit hierarchy, not denoting the unit's actual rank.

[Kieran 11]

And he mentioned putting in the ranks of other nations' militaries. I made a thread about realistic AI/human commanding, and about actually having in-game leaders delegating to their subordinate leaders (platoon leaders > squad leaders > team leaders) and about getting rid of AI micro-management. Having more ranks would help facilitate that. That way, you can have your squad leaders (your Staff Sergeants for the US Army for example) commanding your team leaders (your Sergeants) without having them both be Sergeants as is currently in-game. It can facilitate better hierarchical simulation in-game.

Yes, it very much is important. If you play anything in Arma where you are either commanding or being commanding by someone else (AI or human), then yeah, you will encounter ranks in-game. Now, maybe the German army doesn't have any sort of rank structure, unit structure, or any military discipline, I don't know (although I highly doubt this is the case), but at the very least, since we are playing as the US Army in Arma 3, I for one would like for BIS to get it right. Oh, and just for your information, I don't even care what other ranks are considered. For the purpose of Arma 3, the ONLY ranks that matter are those of Iran and the United States Army. I'm sorry if that offends you (since apparently the mere mention of US ranks has brought out the usual "there are more countries than the US" rant), but those are the factions BIS decided to put in the game. You don't like that, you can find another game to play.

At the very least, if BIS could add in the functionality to create custom ranks, that would enable any modder to give proper ranks to his/her custom units, specific to the intended nationality of those units. I think this and proper unit structure (as in your company commanders controlling 3 platoon leaders, platoon leaders controlling 3 squad leaders, squad leaders controlling 3 team leaders) are very important for a game that's supposed to be focused on proper infantry simulation. If BIS is unwilling to do this and to make this right, then I'd say they aren't really focused on proper infantry simulation.

Um what?

You do know that It is Nato and not the united states of america that is in arma 3

although amercia may be part of nato that dose not make the game revolve around them.

heck even the main story lines character is a British special forces solider.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Kieran

[viper[cww] 14]

Ranks are different throughout a lot of militaries in the world and the world does not just revolve around the USA.

Also, if you have enough time to bother about ranks, you obviously don't face enough enemies :P

This.

Um what?

You do know that It is Nato and not the united states of america that is in arma 3

although amercia may be part of nato that dose not make the game revolve around them.

heck even the main story lines character is a British special forces solider.

And this.

BIS please drop the US for ArmA 3, god knows they've been used to death and need a rest.

[antoineflemming 14]

Um what?

You do know that It is Nato and not the united states of america that is in arma 3

although amercia may be part of nato that dose not make the game revolve around them.

heck even the main story lines character is a British special forces solider.

Main character is NOT a British SF soldier anymore. Miller is now the main NPC, who used to be the main character. The main character is Ben Kerry, a soldier attached to the 7th Infantry Division. I don't know why BIS changed it, but they did. Get over it. Seriously tired of all this anti-US crap. OP had the dignity to mention "correct ranks" for US AND "militaries of nations other than the US", and you guys still complain just because the OP happened to mention the US. Get over it.

I'd like correct ranks for the US, UK (if it's more than just Miller, which I hope it's more than just him), and Iran since those are the featured factions. And I guess Russia too if they are military and not PMC. Also Greece. Regardless of who the main character is or who his/her nationality is, BIS should want to get that right.

By the way, BIS won't drop the US. This thread isn't a request thread, so, Viper, I do believe your request is not appropriate for this thread.

[Kristian 47]

Well while we're at it lets get Finnish ranks in game too shall we? This discussion is just... Hell I don't even know. As Brain said, they are there simply so AI and players know who is next in command.

I want to see E-1 through E-9, O-1 through O-10, and W-1 through W-5 ranks represented for all services including the U.S. Coast Guard.

US Coast Guard? The game takes place in you know where, why would BIS even consider putting US Coast guard ranks in there? IMO This would make the editor more confusing. More ranks so the chain of command can be longer, but no shit-ass-tons of "useless" ranks. There are alot of good things and bad things in ArmA games, ArmA 3 has least bad things, and if the fact that someone set you to corproal in the editor irritates you then I think BIS has gotten rid of tons of other irritating things :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

The ranks in the editor are only for assigning unit hierarchy, not denoting the unit's actual rank.

Exactly. That's more than enough.

[Brain 12]

Now, maybe the German army doesn't have any sort of rank structure, unit structure, or any military discipline, I don't know (although I highly doubt this is the case)

Funny how you're arguing about the German military having no discipline or what ever (which is just stupid, even if you said you doubt that). The biggest difference is, if our guys are going ot of the base, we don't need 25 new coffins for civilians around the AO. Think about that.

And no, I'm not finding another game to play. If you don't like the ranks, heck find a...ah, what ever. This argument can be stretched up over years.

The only reason for so complex ranks are, as you said, better/complex AI Management. The current ranks are way enough for the current AI, so if you want to have more for better management: do it yourself.

Regards,

The anti-american

(who's donated to various charity regarding wounded us vets and had an american girlfriend with a serving/served father. DUH.)

[Beagle 684]

I don't see what for we need more ranks in the editor. If you do that you end up with a rank dropdown consisting of not less than 24 basic ranks and variations. Best would be to use NATO rank code on uniforms anyway as it is done already in a lot of multinational operations. Most german soldiers seen in A-stan wear a badge showing the NATO rank code ranging from OR-1 to OF-9.

By that simple system no bristish or czech guy has to wonder about what a "Fahnenjunker" (OR-5) is.

[kremator 1064]

It all changed in 2035 whereby all ranks were dissolved leaving only 'The Boss' and 'You'.

[Beagle 684]

It all changed in 2035 whereby all ranks were dissolved leaving only 'The Boss' and 'You'.

Yeah and as we all know the great war of 1914-1918 was so horrible that it ended all wars.

[Brain 12]

And peace can be achieved by just demilitarizing everything and putting flowers in our hair and other plants in our mouth, yeah.

[NoQuarter 0]

Funny how you're arguing about the German military having no discipline or what ever (which is just stupid, even if you said you doubt that). The biggest difference is, if our guys are going ot of the base, we don't need 25 new coffins for civilians around the AO. Think about that.

Since when are your Bäckerei units ever called for (or needed) to leave the cantonment areas...especially when you consider their unique historical record?

Inoculation, of sorts...I've had 4 German girlfriends during my time in USAREUR...and I believe that they all secretly dreamed of Lebensraum.

____

Drop the clichés Brain, they never amount to anything other than fueling an unnecessary flame war.

Stick to the topic.

Greets

[sproyd 2]

Okay I'm going to buck the trend here and say I prefer the way it is structure now. With so many different militaries in the world with different ranking systems and everyone wants to realistically simulate THEIR country's military I think it would just be a cluster-f*** of messy ranks. Also, if I want to play say Polish SF, then I don't want to have to relearn the military ranks.

For playability's sake I prefer "Arma Brand" universal troop ranking systems.

Of course this is prime territory for modding support.

[PuFu 4591]

Get over it. Seriously tired of all this anti-US crap. OP had the dignity to mention "correct ranks" for US AND "militaries of nations other than the US", and you guys still complain just because the OP happened to mention the US. Get over it.

get over yourself please. There is no "anti-US crap", this is just the way you want to read it. Self-entitled much?

I'd like correct ranks for the US, UK (if it's more than just Miller, which I hope it's more than just him), and Iran since those are the featured factions. And I guess Russia too if they are military and not PMC. Also Greece.

Why would it matter if you'd have correct ranks for US? What would it bring to the table? Besides, US has different ranks in the army, in the navy, marines and so forth.

Regardless of who the main character is or who his/her nationality is, BIS should want to get that right.

This is such a petty and unimportant thing for the scope of arma.

[antoineflemming 14]

get over yourself please. There is no "anti-US crap", this is just the way you want to read it. Self-entitled much?

I'd like correct ranks for the US, UK (if it's more than just Miller, which I hope it's more than just him), and Iran since those are the featured factions. And I guess Russia too if they are military and not PMC. Also Greece.

Why would it matter if you'd have correct ranks for US? What would it bring to the table? Besides, US has different ranks in the army, in the navy, marines and so forth.

This is such a petty and unimportant thing for the scope of arma.

IDK, I kinda see it as important in the scope of getting the hierarchy system right (not just next in command but also subordinate command). Maybe that's just me, and everyone else here only plays MP or only plays as the highest-ranked commander on the field (so Captain, with everyone else being lower, for example). I see it as important because that's how infantry (and any other branch/type of unit) is. There are ranks for a reason. I'd be ok with a generic NATO rank system, sure. But I'd like for there to at least be an additional Sergeant rank above Sergeant (name it Staff Sergeant, Master Sergeant, whatever) so that I can have a different rank for my squad leader and my team leader. And then I'd like for a team leader to be able to directly give orders to the 3 AI under him (the Corporals and the Privates) while having a squad leader that outranks him and can give the team leader orders. Maybe the OP is pissed that someone assigned him Corporal in an MP game, although I don't see any sign of that. But I want to see improved AI management, and correct/more ranks, at least one more rank, would help greatly in that. And it's something that I believe is important for the scope of Arma, and definitely something that isn't petty.

Oh, and forgive me, but when I see someone make a post and mention the US as well as "other militaries of other nations", and then the following post criticizes the OPs post for being US-centric, yeah, I see that as anti-US. I'm not a "US is great, all others suck" kind of person, but I do believe that we shouldn't lambaste any nation or nationality on these forums, even if it's the overused US. Brain, please forgive me I misinterpreted your post.

@VIPER[CWW]: Instead of BIS getting rid of the US, I'd rather them include several nations. At the very least, I'd rather them include the US, UK, France, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Italy, and others for NATO, and Russia and China for OPFOR. Sure, that'd probably be a DLC, but I think it'd be nice.

[viper[cww] 14]

@VIPER[CWW]: Instead of BIS getting rid of the US, I'd rather them include several nations. At the very least, I'd rather them include the US, UK, France, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Italy, and others for NATO, and Russia and China for OPFOR. Sure, that'd probably be a DLC, but I think it'd be nice.

Not sure if you've checked on map while playing a game. But if you go to make a marker and hit the up arrow, you can see pretty much every flag of the nations you mentioned above, with addition of others. And what I was saying wasn't Anti-US, if I hated the US it would mean I hated a quarter of my family. You have to be honest BIS has used US as the protagonist in every game they've deployed, they've let Russia go as the "bad guy" now, maybe it's time for another nation to take the mantle.

Personally I wouldn't mind if it was Germany, since they're one of the most powerful forces within NATO and they are much closer to Greece then any of us bar Italy.

Edited April 13, 2013 by VIPER[CWW]

[Harzach 2507]

IDK, I kinda see it as important in the scope of getting the hierarchy system right...

You misunderstand the point of the rank system in Arma.

[viper[cww] 14]

Also to add to my earlier post, I'm not saying BIS should drop US as a faction wholly, just to drop them as the protagonist faction, if they took a side role like there is speculation the Russians are taking then that would be good.

Main character is NOT a British SF soldier anymore. Miller is now the main NPC, who used to be the main character. The main character is Ben Kerry, a soldier attached to the 7th Infantry Division. I don't know why BIS changed it, but they did. Get over it. Seriously tired of all this anti-US crap. OP had the dignity to mention "correct ranks" for US AND "militaries of nations other than the US", and you guys still complain just because the OP happened to mention the US. Get over it.

Source? The Wiki and any official source I can find still has the description as miller being the main character, if it's true then I think it's sad, I was very much looking forward to the guerilla style (campaign) gameplay BIS were touting.

As said by Harzach above, the current military ranking is basic and for hierarchy purposes, it can be argued that it still doesn't follow ranking protocol for any military group. It is basic.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

The ranks in the editor are only for assigning unit hierarchy, not denoting the unit's actual rank.

This.

[simon1279 51]

I'm Italian, and i believe in Arma 3 the choice for a NATO "country", is awesome, with it i can imagine NATO include my country also, and i like this idea, Italian army has never been used in any game except ww2 (fascist army), and Italy covers many roles in NATO ops, now it's history but in the NATO intervetion in kosovo in 1999 the general commander were Gen. Tricarico an Italian General , and NATO ranks or the ones we always used are perfect.

As said in a previous post the only actual use of the "classical" arma rank system is needed just for editor unit groups to establish a hierarchy, basically for editing & scripting references

Edited April 13, 2013 by Simon1279

[antoineflemming 14]

;2372298']Also to add to my earlier post' date=' I'm not saying BIS should drop US as a faction wholly, just to drop them as the protagonist faction, if they took a side role like there is speculation the Russians are taking then that would be good.

Source? The Wiki and any official source I can find still has the description as miller being the main character, if it's true then I think it's sad, I was very much looking forward to the guerilla style (campaign) gameplay BIS were touting.

As said by Harzach above, the current military ranking is basic and for hierarchy purposes, it can be argued that it still doesn't follow ranking protocol for any military group. It is basic.[/quote']

I think Jay Crowe or Ivan said it at last year's Gamescom or E3. It was one of those events. Was said that Ben Kerry was the main character, and when he approached Miller in-game, he said that he was the main NPC or "your boss" or something like that. Something to the effect of that's who you receive your missions from. It's easy to miss. I'll have to find the video where Jay says it.

@Lightspeed_aust: I say it should be used for both. Or at least a general idea of the unit's actual rank. Because that ties into hierarchy. As said, I'd at least like to differentiate by SLs and TLs with another NCO rank that's above Sergeant. And, while yes, it is only "for editing & scripting", it'd be nice if it was for gameplay purposes as well.

Edited April 13, 2013 by antoineflemming