General Discussion (dev branch)

[Tyl3r99 41]

yeppppieeeeee :D

apparently the sounds of the guns are changing in the beta? is this true?

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

Stage the entire beta on the dev branch? Does that mean all the content from the beta being in the dev branch tommorow?

If so, that's pretty neat.

yes that's correct aslong as there is no delays

[maddogx 13]

yeppppieeeeee :D

apparently the sounds of the guns are changing in the beta? is this true?

At least they were noticably different in the E3 videos.

[neokika 62]

Yes - it will be tomorrow , oh well one more day to wait :D

Nah, tomorrow we will be here.

Edited June 20, 2013 by neokika

[fragmachine 12]

Dear devs please stop beaching :cool:

[simon1279 51]

Nah, tomorrow we

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvuoc7dMIR1r0ojhto1_500.gif

i believe this is the best choice, why to go at work with this heat temperatures :D

[joschaap 1]

Thanks!

I'm calling in sick at work in about 20 hours from now..

[Maio 293]

Nah, tomorrow we

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvuoc7dMIR1r0ojhto1_500.gif

+1 infraction point for neo for toying with our nerves and posting an image over 100 Kb :icon_twisted:

[nikiforos 450]

Very tempting but I will wait to Tuesday. I have to restrain myself :)

[gossamersolid 155]

Very tempting but I will wait to Tuesday. I have to restrain myself :)

Restraining yourself for a weekend release... but you'd rather go all out in the middle of the work week?

I fail to see any logic in your post...

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

That sounds more like a matter of adjusting the ambient light value to better match the brightness of the sky. Arma has had similar discrepancies in the past (semi-bright twilight sky + pitch black ground springs to mind).

I can confidently say it's an HDR issue. Try setting HDR to Low and watch how the problem gets amplified to be even worse. Then switch back to Normal and it partially gets fixed. With a higher HDR precision the sky and clouds won't be solid white, it'll be leveled out and detailed. To see this example in real life check this out: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5250/5379809163_a52a50bcde_z.jpg (163 kB)

On the left is HDR on the right is a regular photo, which is kind of how Arma renders right now. The sky is way too bright and there's not enough HDR precision to level it out. With 32 bit HDR precision the sky should look more like the image on the left. This is definitely what the issue is and I hope we get higher settings for HDR in the beta tomorrow.

Edit: more examples.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/luilainez/5380470738/sizes/l/in/photostream/

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5340157156_8011c58602.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5168/5379859623_abc92de562_z.jpg

http://photos.appleinsider.com/hdr-100902-1.jpg

I believe it's abundantly clear to be an HDR problem :)

Edited June 20, 2013 by DaRkL3AD3R

[maddogx 13]

You make a very good case sir. ;)

Is there a request on the tracker for 24/32 bit HDR precision?

[Tyl3r99 41]

At least they were noticably different in the E3 videos.

as the problem before was that all weapons sounded similar if that makes any sense?

@devs - loving the photo, and will the LOD popping be fixed???

[maddogx 13]

as the problem before was that all weapons sounded similar if that makes any sense?

Yeah, lots of them do/did, although the Katiba is pretty unique. We'll see how the beta sounds turn out. Mostly I'm worried about the doppler effect issues, but the devs seem to be handling those. :)

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

You make a very good case sir. ;)

Is there a request on the tracker for 24/32 bit HDR precision?

Thank you :)

These are the only 2 tickets that are related to HDR and the over-brightening issue on the tracker:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4242

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4113

Neither is really what we need here though, as they are from players who seem to prefer Low for some odd reason. It's funny however because both tickets would be resolved if they used a higher HDR setting lol

Perhaps I should make one? Or rather I should wait till tomorrow to see if the Beta with it's new and improved video options has higher settings, then if it doesn't I'll post a ticket :D

[Tyl3r99 41]

Thank you :)

These are the only 2 tickets that are related to HDR and the over-brightening issue on the tracker:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4242

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4113

Neither is really what we need here though, as they are from players who seem to prefer Low for some odd reason. It's funny however because both tickets would be resolved if they used a higher HDR setting lol

Perhaps I should make one? Or rather I should wait till tomorrow to see if the Beta with it's new and improved video options has higher settings, then if it doesn't I'll post a ticket :D

that would be nice actually more video settings or even if It was more broken down kind of thing.

[sqb-sma 66]

Yeah I tried this and unfortunately it didn't work. Saved a mission at sunset and took screenshots in the same spot with both 32 and 16 set in the file. It looks identical on both.

Yeah, I've noticed (and attempted) that as well. I'd much prefer at least 24, hopefully 32, bit FP-HDR, even on normal there's some problems currently.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_rendering

This is a very interesting read. I wonder if Arma is using floating point or integer HDRR. If it is using floating point well then go figure the quality is meh. That's the "cheap" way of rendering HDR. Currently based on that Wiki article, it appears maximum integer bit range for HDR is 128. Now if Arma is using the integer 16 bit rendering, well then all has been explained. In that case we should see: High = 32 bit, Very High = 64 bit and Ultra = 128 bit. If however Arma is using a floating point based operaton then I suspect we won't see anything higher than the current "Normal" option for HDR :(

Upon further reading it seems all Shader Model 4.0 and above HDR renderers use floating point instead of integer. That about answers that. The main principle remains the same here in that we should hope for higher bit depths on HDR.

Let's see how things turn out tomorrow. Fingers crossed for higher HDR settings.

Edited June 20, 2013 by DaRkL3AD3R
Corrected misinformation

[blanchjo 10]

I just want to blow things up with the Comanche and the Caiman (Assuming that's still the working name for it)... Fairly certain I'm skipping class tomorrow

[afp 1]

I bit off-discussion, back to sounds ( I think sounds chapter deserve its own thread as there are still a lot to be done). I remembered that Farcry 3 had a great atmosphere, being one of the best game released in the last years. Found a small gameplay clip un youtube, something to learn from, everything is so clear and balanced, footsteps, going through bushes, weapons, ambient etc... no wonder everybody liked it. Here it is:

[EDcase 87]

I can confidently say it's an HDR issue. Try setting HDR to Low and watch how the problem gets amplified to be even worse. Then switch back to Normal and it partially gets fixed. With a higher HDR precision the sky and clouds won't be solid white, it'll be leveled out and detailed. To see this example in real life check this out: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5250/5379809163_a52a50bcde_z.jpg (163 kB)

On the left is HDR on the right is a regular photo, which is kind of how Arma renders right now. The sky is way too bright and there's not enough HDR precision to level it out. With 32 bit HDR precision the sky should look more like the image on the left. This is definitely what the issue is and I hope we get higher settings for HDR in the beta tomorrow.

I'd rather they reduce the sky brightness in the morning and evenings rather than throw more bit depth and fps at the problem.

What about realism... We dont see in HDR (most HDR images look awful and so fake)

The self illuminated sky is just a bit too bright compared to the ambient light on the ground in mornings and evenings.

BIS reduced the HDR effect a lot since it had a problem with brighness detection and made everything dark when there was a tiny bit of brightness in the view. That would be the proper way to do it but they couldn't get the senitivity right.

Edited June 20, 2013 by EDcase

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

What about realism... We dont see in HDR (most HDR images look awful and so fake)

Please see this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_rendering#Human_eye

To quote:

The human eye can perceive scenes with a very high dynamic contrast ratio, around 1,000,000:1. Adaptation is achieved in part through adjustments of the iris and slow chemical changes, which take some time (e.g. the delay in being able to see when switching from bright lighting to pitch darkness). At any given time, the eye's static range is smaller, around 10,000:1. However, this is still generally higher than the static range achievable by most display technology.

I don't know about you but when I go outside the sky and overcast doesn't look like a post apocalyptic movie ;) HDR shots are far truer to the way we perceive the world than any fixed aperture photo or game does.

[EDcase 87]

...I don't know about you but when I go outside the sky and overcast doesn't look like a post apocalyptic movie ;) HDR shots are far truer to the way we perceive the world than any fixed aperture photo or game does.

Yes, I understand that your eyes and brain compensate for a wide dynamic range but do you really want ARMA to look like this!?!?!

http://acornphotography.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/rustytruckhdr.jpg

http://media.smashingmagazine.com/images/fantastic-hdr-pictures/hdr-76.jpg

http://hdrguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hdr-sunset.jpg

...because thats the way its going

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Yes, I understand that your eyes and brain compensate for a wide dynamic range but do you really want ARMA to look like this!?!?!

http://acornphotography.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/rustytruckhdr.jpg

http://media.smashingmagazine.com/images/fantastic-hdr-pictures/hdr-76.jpg

http://hdrguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hdr-sunset.jpg

...because thats the way its going

The first one yes, because that's the way things look in the world.

Second one doesn't work 403 forbidden.

Last one is incredibly warped from panoramic shooting and also appears to be touched up in photoshop. But who knows, maybe at that particular time of day in that particular place the sky really looked like that. I don't doubt it. Either way yes I would prefer something that's closer to real life then play a first person shooter that looks like I'm playing from a camera instead of out of the eyes of a soldier. This extreme bright spot stuff doesn't happen with the sky with our eyes. It happens to cameras which are using an aperture and metering a dark spot. Our eyes can handle all the dynamic ranges of lighting, and we tend to fixate towards brighter things. That's just the way it is.

And hey man I'm not trying to force everyone to use high HDR settings. You guys who like your bright white skies can continue enjoying it by using Low HDR setting. I just want to have my option for higher precision and quality. Why are you combating that goal?

[EDcase 87]

...And hey man I'm not trying to force everyone to use high HDR settings. You guys who like your bright white skies can continue enjoying it by using Low HDR setting. I just want to have my option for higher precision and quality. Why are you combating that goal?

LOL, I'm not trying to attack you sorry :D (ignoring perspective, the pics were to see lack of contrast and lighting. HDR just makes everything flat)

Its more of a discussion and finding out what you want it to look like. It seems we have very different ideals for the visual experience ;)

You must have some freaky eyes to see the world like that :cool:

I'm all in favour of adding 32 or even 128bit logarithmic encoding for you but I would like BiS to try and and balance the sky brightness a bit for the rest of us too.

[xendance 3]

Yes, I understand that your eyes and brain compensate for a wide dynamic range but do you really want ARMA to look like this!?!?!

http://acornphotography.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/rustytruckhdr.jpg

http://media.smashingmagazine.com/images/fantastic-hdr-pictures/hdr-76.jpg

http://hdrguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/hdr-sunset.jpg

...because thats the way its going

Apples, oranges.

Computer generated images, multi-exposure HDR photos.

You can't compare them as the method of generating the HDR image is completely different.