General Discussion (dev branch)

[thr0tt 12]

Any chance this will be fixed soon?

I put ths issue on feedback tracker mid july:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12739

Whats to fix ? This is the future, they are obviously not really there and projections or you missed and a REALLY bad aim. ;) j/k

[mistyronin 1181]

Whats to fix ? This is the future, they are obviously not really there and projections or you missed and a REALLY bad aim. ;) j/k

You don't understand anything. He has a really hard face!

In 2035 there would be bullet proof armor creams that you can apply to your face :rolleyes:

[insumsnoy 4]

What seems to happen is the person in the truck dies after one or two shots, but his animation still carries on playing. Notice that the steering wheel (get in as driver) icon appears, this would not appear if he was alive and getting into the truck boots the corpse out. :D

[kylania 567]

The Zamak Medical truck will instantly flip back onto it's wheels after toppling over after a sharp curve. It can also be Treated by a CLS if it's injured. You also don't lay down in it like other medical cargo animations and one of the guys sitting on the bench is standing up through the cover.

[carlostex 38]

That´s Hollywood stuff.

It took me 5 seconds to find this video. Doesn't look like Hollywood, nor even Bollywood.

Ever tried being hit with 2000+ Joules of energy in an coin size area in your chest? The SEPI plate stops the bullet but because of that all the kinetic energy the bullet had, so the body takes the rest. And human beings are not strong enough to take that kind of energy and still keep standing.

If your are not wearing any body armor and the bullet is a military round full metal jacket, then its gonna go through flesh and organs like butter. Although it doesn't knock you down because human body cant absorb much energy, you are still gonna drop to the floor due to your injuries and pain. War is not nice, and i guess bullets hurt like hell. I've heard that people die too.

Edited September 11, 2013 by CarlosTex
found a better video

[bad benson 1733]

Any chance this will be fixed soon?

I put ths issue on feedback tracker mid july:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12739

lol i kinda got the point after the first mag. they don't die but how do you know they feel no pain?! so cruel!

[becubed 24]

Ever tried being hit with 2000+ Joules of energy in an coin size area in your chest? The SEPI plate stops the bullet but because of that all the kinetic energy the bullet had, so the body takes the rest. And human beings are not strong enough to take that kind of energy and still keep standing.

This has been discussed here and other threads ad infinitim, the energy from a bullet does NOT knock you down.

[bad benson 1733]

must be allah himself pushing that dude over in the video ;)

[Varanon 892]

It took me 5 seconds to find this video. Doesn't look like Hollywood, nor even Bollywood.

What ? He just slumps down. He's not thrown back.

Watch Mystbusters, they had exactly that question and the answer is that flying back is Hollywood.

The explanation is simple: A reaction requires an equal counter-reaction: So if the guy that's been hit is thrown back, so is the shooter with an equal force. And since that doesn't happen (not even in old rifles with absolutely no recoil dampeners), you can do the math.

---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

Anyone tried putting parachutes on AI's backs in MP ? If you open your chute, the AI does too, but they aren't even hanging in their chutes, they drop somewhere close by, and some even drop straight to the floor. In any case, after a jump, all but human players get killed.

Tried with the latest dev build.

[RuecanOnRails 10]

Physics state that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Simply meaning the force at which the bullet hits the target will be no greater than the force put on person who fired it. If the gunman does not fly backwards from the shot, neither will the target.

What is likely occurring in the video is that the soldier is hit, then reacts to getting hit. He falls to the ground under his own strength, not the from the force of the bullet. It might have also been a mental thing where once he felt the pain his legs gave out giving the illusion that the bullet knocked him down.

Guns don't kill people, physics kill people.

In game the difference is that the characters feel no pain, so the flinch of getting hit is the max extent a bullet is felt. If they felt pain perhaps it would cause them to quickly drop to the ground in pain or drop gear/weapons.

I guess until the game is released, and a new dev update occurs this thread might die off a little.

[Varanon 892]

There is still a crash when hitting "Preview" in the MP editor when editing missions on Altis. Made a ticket (didn't find any previous one).

Anyone else got this ? After two or three previews, the game simply crashes. This makes making MP missions rather challenging, or let's say, impossible.

[froggyluv 2130]

Physics state that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Simply meaning the force at which the bullet hits the target will be no greater than the force put on person who fired it. If the gunman does not fly backwards from the shot, neither will the target.

I don't think it quite works that way. There are plenty of handheld weapons that will surely impart more force on the recipient than the trigger puller.

[-ghost-tf 12]

Anyone tried putting parachutes on AI's backs in MP ? If you open your chute, the AI does too, but they aren't even hanging in their chutes, they drop somewhere close by, and some even drop straight to the floor. In any case, after a jump, all but human players get killed.

Tried with the latest dev build.

Confirmed. I think this is its ticket: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10249

There is still a crash when hitting "Preview" in the MP editor when editing missions on Altis. Made a ticket (didn't find any previous one).

Anyone else got this ? After two or three previews, the game simply crashes. This makes making MP missions rather challenging, or let's say, impossible.

Confirmed and upvoted.

After second time pressing the preview button game freezes and then crashes to desktop.

Edited September 11, 2013 by -Ghost-TF

[das attorney 857]

I don't think it quite works that way. There are plenty of handheld weapons that will surely impart more force on the recipient than the trigger puller.

No it's true. No object can impart more force on something it collides with than it took to get that object moving at that velocity.

Otherwise, you would be creating energy from nowhere, which is impossible given the physics of the universe in which we inhabit.

However, the person firing has the benefit of leaning into their shot, bracing for it, and using ancillary aids like a rubber butt stock on their gun which distributes the force over a longer amount of time.

[bad benson 1733]

i think we can all agree, no matter what the cause may be, that the guy in the video, and i believe many others in the history of shooting people, dropped down. i'm pretty sure he had a big bruise under that vest too, which shows there is a lot of force involved especially when the bullet is stopped by a plate. so yea while i'm no expert on ballistics and i am aware of the myth busters episode, i think it's safe to say that getting it by a bigger caliber will have an effect on you that is more than just twitching and brushing it off. and i'm sure that even though it is true that the bullet won't throw you anywhere that it will certainly send a decent shock through your body. CarosTex didn't say "throw back" he said "knock down".

However, the person firing has the benefit of leaning into their shot, bracing for it, and using ancillary aids like a rubber butt stock on their gun which distributes the force over a longer amount of time.

i think those factors aren't exactly minor. otherwise everyone shooting a rifle would have the same bruise on their shoulder like the guy with a bulletproof vest getting hit by that rifle would have on his chest.

http://depletedcranium.com/l3chestinjury.jpg

Edited September 11, 2013 by Bad Benson

[RuecanOnRails 10]

No it's true. No object can impart more force on something it collides with than it took to get that object moving at that velocity.

Otherwise, you would be creating energy from nowhere, which is impossible given the physics of the universe in which we inhabit.

However, the person firing has the benefit of leaning into their shot, bracing for it, and using ancillary aids like a rubber butt stock on their gun which distributes the force over a longer amount of time.

Exactly. Unless the projectile fired has some sort of secondary source of propulsion such as two stage rockets, the velocity and impact force will continuously lessen once it is fired. It will maintain the maximum force for a short distance, but it will not and can not exceed the initial force used.

Twitching and brushing off getting shot, is accurate as the characters in game have no response or method of feeling pain. Pain is not simulated in the game. Just think of every character in the game being jacked up on morphine and PCP.

[das attorney 857]

i think those factors aren't exactly minor. otherwise everyone shooting a rifle would have the same bruise on their shoulder like the guy with a bulletproof vest getting hit by that rifle would have on his chest.

But that's the point of distributing the force over a larger amount of time. In doing so, you lower the force per given unit of time and thus "feel less".

Plus the contact area of the buttstock against the shooters shoulder is many times higher than the contact area of the bullet where it hits the target so the shooter is already reducing the force per given area many times already. Hence no horrific bruising like in that picture.

I don't want to argue though man. I accept that getting hit by a bullet drops people like a sack of shit.

[windies 11]

I'll add my two cents on the subject. I don't want to see people flying around ala Max Payne. What I would like though is to see a little bit of variation in the ragdolls and and a little bit more visual queue, or better, when someone is hit. If that means that the bullets themselves have to impart force on the object, which is how it's done in most games, rather than trying to simulate pain and human response of being shot through the AI, then that's fine by me as the visual aesthetics are of more importance than the accurate physics calculations. What I don't want to see though is people flying 50 feet from getting hit by a .50 cal. If the bullet just gave a nice little nudge in the area that it hits, it would create a lot better ragdoll effects.

[bad benson 1733]

Twitching and brushing off getting shot, is accurate as the characters in game have no response or method of feeling pain. Pain is not simulated in the game. Just think of every character in the game being jacked up on morphine and PCP.

you just made my point there. how is it accurate if it's caused by something not being simulated? i don't get that logic. i get that in theory the force is the same but i don't think that's the reality. i'd say that getting hit on body armor atleast feels like a very hard punch. i don't see where the bruises would come from otherwise.

so yea. the twitch is "accurate" for a robot who does totally anticipate being shot...i also don't think the guy in the video just drop due to pain. i mean he drops right when getting hit and doesn't go on his knees in pain. so i guess it's more of a shock or reflex.

But that's the point of distributing the force over a larger amount of time. In doing so, you lower the force per given unit of time and thus "feel less".

Plus the contact area of the buttstock against the shooters shoulder is many times higher than the contact area of the bullet where it hits the target so the shooter is already reducing the force per given area many times already. Hence no horrific bruising like in that picture.

I don't want to argue though man. I accept that getting hit by a bullet drops people like a sack of shit.

that's exactly my point. sure "in theory" the force is the same. but we are talking about the effect on the body. so all those factors (time and area of distribution) you describe are exactly what i mean and as important as just the force. they reduce the effect. i don't argue that the "physical force" isn't the same. what does it matter if it's the same if the "means of distribution" are totally different. you say yourself that it "lowers" the force over time and thus "feels" different. i mean it's like saying time is an irrelevant factor. force doesn't stand on it's own. it's all about the "feel" when we talk about effects on the body.

as i said i don't think anybody get's thrown anywhere but i refuse to believe that when you "receive" such a bruise without being ready for it that you will react to it more than by just twitching. so i guess we agree ;)

[froggyluv 2130]

No it's true. No object can impart more force on something it collides with than it took to get that object moving at that velocity.

Otherwise, you would be creating energy from nowhere, which is impossible given the physics of the universe in which we inhabit.

However, the person firing has the benefit of leaning into their shot, bracing for it, and using ancillary aids like a rubber butt stock on their gun which distributes the force over a longer amount of time.

Exactly. Unless the projectile fired has some sort of secondary source of propulsion such as two stage rockets, the velocity and impact force will continuously lessen once it is fired. It will maintain the maximum force for a short distance, but it will not and can not exceed the initial force used.

Twitching and brushing off getting shot, is accurate as the characters in game have no response or method of feeling pain. Pain is not simulated in the game. Just think of every character in the game being jacked up on morphine and PCP.

Ahh ok -I stand corrected :o

I agree with Windies above that small visual cues as opposed to just a twitch could go a long way without the need for over the top 'blown back'. The guy getting hit by sniper definitely seem to drop back and away from the direction of the shooter. Also I would imagine that similar to standing in a ring and anticipating getting hit as opposed to some guy randomly coming up to you and sucker punching you in the solar plexus -the element of shock would lead to very different outcome. there was another video floating around here of a U.S soldier getting hit in a long range firefight in the Afghan hills and he dropped his gun immediately and had a semi state of shock and scramble "I'm Hit!!"

Setting up reactions based on skill level of troops with shock and drop for Greenies to flinch/ return fire for grizzled vets would work.

[das attorney 857]

as i said i don't think anybody get's thrown anywhere but i refuse to believe that when you "receive" such a bruise without being ready for it that you will react to it more than by just twitching. so i guess we agree ;)

Yes I see what you mean.

The shooter is prepared for what's about to transpire (the shot), but often, the target will not have one iota of what's going on. People flinch and do all sorts of weird moves when something as insignificant as a wasp buzzes around their head. I would imagine that a bullet would send the body into mega-spasm mode as it attempts to react to a threat that it can't even comprehend (supersonic bullet hit).

Certainly, I would like to see some sort of involuntary spasm as enemy are shot. (Like a temporary ragdoll or something). Whether players would like that to happen to them as a consequence of being hit is another question though.

EDIT: In fact, I watched a video somebody put up of the tpw:FALL mod, and that looked pretty sweet compared to the flinching we have now. I'll be sure to DL that soon :)

Edited September 11, 2013 by Das Attorney

[bad benson 1733]

what i would love to see is a blend of anims and ragdoll much like in euphoria or similar systems. like a more rigid and less limp ragdoll than the current instadeath one which then immediately blends into a quick and urgent getting back up animation if the unit is hit on armor. if the unit is hit on a non protected area they would just trip and then have slightly delayed strong effects liek bleeding and strong aimshake and maybe hightened fatigue.

all this should of course be reserved for big calibers and not occur every single time. i think though that something like that only works inside a gradual damage system where a "minor" hit like in the arm would cause dropping of the gun and desorientation (like the current visual effects) and insta going prone when shot in the leg. having everyone drop the same way everytime would be annoying and much like COD singlelayer enemies.

right now it's just looks totally unimmersive when you shoot AI. their upper body just bends backwards and the legs are totally uneffected. there is no sense of balance. if you translate the amount of twitch into force it would totally throw (not literally throw) them off balance if they had any sense of it.

there was a great tripping anim in arma 2 which i used in my personal mods. it was fantastic for that purpose and would look great even without ragdoll.

[millerhighlife 1]

I wish when say you set up an IED on a APC or civi vehicles, Would be the targets fly out of the vehicle rag doll enabled like many of the videos from terrorist IED attacks. Instead when someone is blown up they usally don't fo flying but when they do they stay in one animation like standing or laying down and it looks ridiculous.

[progamer 14]

I wish when say you set up an IED on a APC or civi vehicles, Would be the targets fly out of the vehicle rag doll enabled like many of the videos from terrorist IED attacks. Instead when someone is blown up they usally don't fo flying but when they do they stay in one animation like standing or laying down and it looks ridiculous.

You mean we need something like this:

With that amazing medical system it has! Would love to be playing online, get badly injured and have a medevac like that! Edited September 12, 2013 by ProGamer

[millerhighlife 1]

You mean we need something like this:

[/url] With that amazing medical system it has! Would love to be playing online, get badly injured and have a medevac like that!

That was pretty damn sweet but no one was ejected from the vehicle, I do love the enhanced damaged model. Only if Arma lived up to those standards....