General Discussion (dev branch)

[horrorview 10]

Yes, as others have noted, since the most recent build, I, too, have been experiencing increased stutter and hiccups, which is gutting since I had such excellent performance on the day of Altis' release. I also had a bizarre thing happen whilst playing a simple homemade mission last night.

I set each of my 7 recon soldiers to playable. The one I was playing at the time died, so, after the fade-to-black, the menu came up, and went to the Switch Team Member option. Instead of having six choices of team members, however, I was given only one, and, after I selected him (and the mission loaded), the game was a total slideshow. FRAPS had me down to 2 fps, when, prior to that (and in the exact same location), I was getting a solid 40 fps. I minimized the game to see what sort of load my CPU had on it, but it was no higher than usual, so I went back in, blew myself up with a nade (which took FOREVER), and re-started the mission. Sure enough, I was back up into the 40s fps-wise. I intentionally died to see if I would be faced with the same issue again, but I couldn't replicate it. May have been completely anomalous, but I figured I'd throw it out there in case anyone else experienced the same thing.

[Azzur33 1]

Happened in both multiplayer and singleplayer. In different situations... one time I was driving an APC over a relatively empty plain, the second time when driving a motorboat with view of the coast.

..And you have a town somewhere far starting to load all its houses and objects.

Chernarus had bigger forests than Altis, and back in the days when Arma 2 came out, my machine was much lower specced than it is now. And even then, there were no several second dropouts.

Forests are mainly just trees and you have the model and it's textures already in the memory. They'll may affect the framerate, they don't give stutters like cities do at first. And bigger ones in Chernarus had as many buildings as the smaller villages in Altis, only spreading wider.

Oh, just for giggles, I can set the view distance to 6000 m without much problem as long as I don't move. And I have a 64 bit system, too, 4 gb of memory, even raised the game's maxmem to 2gb (of which 1.6 to 1.7 are actually used.

If you move, the engine has to render much more than what's in your view when not moving. If you do 360, you'll stutter for sure.

But after that it should not stutter. If id does, then it is a probably related to ram.

I fail to see how discussing how the current development built is performing poorly is "oft topic" ?

On topic is to discuss the current development build.

Off topic is to discuss about the differences of the maps in general, and about when and how I experienced the "few seconds stutters" when making my PC suffer. And that was few patches ago. I haven't tried that with the current development build anyway, so that has nothing to do with it.

[Varanon 892]

Is the "The game is definitely broken and totally unplayable for me, so the game is broken and totally unplayable! Fix it! It has to be your fault!" -logic any better.

It doesn't help much either.

I would really like you to point me to any line where Bad Benson said anything like that.

Geez, honestly, people here have problems with the game and want to make the developer aware of the problem. This is the natural thing to do if the developer conducts an open beta phase. The point of which being is to collect feedback and identify problem areas. Because, you know, when the game is out and the critics get it and say "The game is broken and totally unplayable" it's a bit too late to say "see, I could have told you".

What really annoys me to no end is people that actually DEFEND the problems as being "normal" or "must be you". I don't know why those people do it, but they are not doing the game any service by shrugging things off, by denying the problem, by praising the game beyond what it deserves. I said in another thread that I like Altis, but just because I like it I should just keep quiet about problems I have ? Problems that other people have, too, and potential future customers will have as well ? And reviewers that will give it bad scores ?

There are some areas where the game deserves praises. There are some that are praised by some and condemned by others, because these areas are usually influenced by preference or play style (you can, for example, hate or love the stamina system). But we are talking about technical problems and bugs. These are not a subject of opinion. They need to be fixed.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

..And you have a town somewhere far starting to load all its houses and objects.

How often do I need to repeat that this is NOT THE LOADING OF LODS OR TEXTURES ? It doesn't stutter, it STOPS for seconds.

Forests are mainly just trees and you have the model and it's textures already in the memory. They'll may affect the framerate, they don't give stutters like cities do at first. And bigger ones in Chernarus had as many buildings as the smaller villages in Altis, only spreading wider.

Stutter stems from objects and textures being loaded into memory, mostly when they are needed by the engine but not yet fully loaded to display the current frame. It does not matter what those objects are, whether it's trees, houses or blue bunnies with wings.

On topic is to discuss the current development build.

Off topic is to discuss about the differences of the maps in general, and about when and how I experienced the "few seconds stutters" when making my PC suffer. And that was few patches ago. I haven't tried that with the current development build anyway, so that has nothing to do with it.

I fail to see how discussing the problems the current developer build has is off topic for discussion of the current developer build. If it was a few patches ago, well, then it's still in, so what is the point you are trying to make ? I find it especially interesting that you deny that there is any problem in the current developer build and at the same time tell us that you haven't even tried it.

[Ekko 1]

Geez, honestly, people here have problems with the game and want to make the developer aware of the problem. This is the natural thing to do if the developer conducts an open beta phase. The point of which being is to collect feedback and identify problem areas. Because, you know, when the game is out and the critics get it and say "The game is broken and totally unplayable" it's a bit too late to say "see, I could have told you".

What really annoys me to no end is people that actually DEFEND the problems as being "normal" or "must be you". I don't know why those people do it, but they are not doing the game any service by shrugging things off, by denying the problem, by praising the game beyond what it deserves. I said in another thread that I like Altis, but just because I like it I should just keep quiet about problems I have ? Problems that other people have, too, and potential future customers will have as well ? And reviewers that will give it bad scores ?

+ this

[bad benson 1733]

Is the "The game is definitely broken and totally unplayable for me, so the game is broken and totally unplayable! Fix it! It has to be your fault!" -logic any better.

It doesn't help much either.

are you serious?

so saying that we have an issue is generalizing that everyone has it? nice twisting of words. what's the point of your posts anyway? i don't get it. we all know arma/ofp pretty well. no need to explain past known performance issues...i play with very low viedistance now and see objects popping into existence very close. i basically play on a small map. and still the chopping is there and it gets worse over time. so...

and who cares about your definition of off-topic? we are discussing the current dev-build. period. i don't get this weird BI defending attitude of some people. we are simply pointing out and issue and trying to find the cause. if it runs fine for you and you don't see an issue then simply move along. why do you feel the need to school people on what actually causes their problem?

A video of the problems would help to understand those who have the difficulties.

Then we could all say "Oh man, that is bad, I don't have it, but that looks really bad. Something must be done."

so we have to prove to you that we aren't delusional now? lol. get a grip dude :rolleyes: besides. been there. doesn't convince some people...

[scrim 1]

Thank you, right on the spot!

When a game in development stops working for a large number of people, and your back bone reaction is to write "well, the fault is on your end", just turn off your computer, go meet some friends if you actually have any, and learn how to interact like a somewhat normal human being instead of saying dumb things which essentially boil down to nothing short of "it works for me = there can't be anything wrong with it".

[SaOk 112]

If trying to copy building class, the game crashes everytime (at least when trieing to get tower fortication class). With Stratis the same identical script worked fine. NearestObjects [player, ["house"], 200] is also very unstable.

_nul = [[nearestBuilding getposATL thistrigger]] execVM "copyclass.sqf";

Copyclass.sqf:

private ["_array","_unit"];
_array = _this select 0;
_unit = [];
{_unit = _unit + [typeof _x];} foreach _array;
copyToClipboard format["%1",_unit];
hint "Classes copied!";

Made a ticket:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13719

For many all AI gets unresponsive after some time. Making it stop to shoot anybody. For some, like me, the issue is rare (havent got it for some days). Some players seem to get it constantly. And also in other missions than mine.

Edited August 31, 2013 by SaOk

[Azzur33 1]

1) I would really like you to point me to any line where Bad Benson said anything like that.

2) What really annoys me to no end is people that actually DEFEND the problems as being "normal" or "must be you".

3) They are not doing the game any service by shrugging things off, by denying the problem, by praising the game beyond what it deserves.

4)...How often do I need to repeat that this is NOT THE LOADING OF LODS OR TEXTURES ? It doesn't stutter, it STOPS for seconds.

5)...It does not matter what those objects are, whether it's trees, houses or blue bunnies with wings.

6)...what is the point you are trying to make ? I find it especially interesting that you deny that there is any problem in the current developer build and at the same time tell us that you haven't even tried it.

Oh man. Over and over again.

1) B.Benson was (if I understand) saying that in general, not particularly for me, about me. And I was saying what I said in general, not about B.Benson.

2) I don't see that kind of people here, discussing about this matter. If you are aiming that line at me, you are wrong.

3) I don't see that kind of people here, discussing about this matter. If you are aiming that line at me, you are wrong.

- I said pages earlier that if there is a bug, then it's fine. Bugs can be found and fixed. If not, Altis is just too heavy to play without having an occasional stutter in some situations. I haven't noticed any off-shrugging or problem-denaying in my posts. Or undeserved praising.

4) When the building the scene is too much for your machine to handle, it stops. It doesn't stop infinitely, as you said.

5) It does matter if there are 1000 objects that are 5 differend, rather simple models, against 1000 complex objects with 100 differend models.

6) What?

I'm not denaying a problem.

I have of course tried the current development build.

But I haven't tried 12000 vd 6000 obj 3000 meters high 600 km/h flying.

I thought I wrote it quite clearly.

[daze23 1]

the chopping is there and it gets worse over time.

that's what I'm noticing. I was playing a missions, and things got real bad around the end of the mission. I reloaded a save-point, and things seemed to get better

[Azzur33 1]

are you serious?

so saying that we have an issue is generalizing that everyone has it? nice twisting of words. what's the point of your posts anyway? i don't get it. we all know arma/ofp pretty well. no need to explain past known performance issues...i play with very low viedistance now and see objects popping into existence very close. i basically play on a small map. and still the chopping is there and it gets worse over time. so...

and who cares about your definition of off-topic? we are discussing the current dev-build. period. i don't get this weird BI defending attitude of some people. we are simply pointing out and issue and trying to find the cause. if it runs fine for you and you don't see an issue then simply move along. why do you feel the need to school people on what actually causes their problem?

so we have to prove to you that we aren't delusional now? besides. been there. doesn't convince some people...

Sigh.

You generalize -> I generalized back.

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

The Point was:

They don't help much.

Calm down. Read again. Understand.

I may have to write so that my posts can be understood even when blinded by rage.

Again:

Show us who don't have the problem, how bad the problem is.

And that is NOT saying "You don't have a problem, you just imagine it.", so don't be defensive for nothing.

"who cares about your definition of off-topic?"

That made me laugh. I really thought that was clear to everybody.

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

Thank you, right on the spot!

When a game in development stops working for a large number of people, and your back bone reaction is to write "well, the fault is on your end", just turn off your computer, go meet some friends if you actually have any, and learn how to interact like a somewhat normal human being instead of saying dumb things which essentially boil down to nothing short of "it works for me = there can't be anything wrong with it".

Just to be Clear:

"I don't think that there is any other way to make Altis completely stutter free for everyone, than making an additional "Altis Lite", with only very small towns and limited objects and buildings and removing some eye-candy, like that solar powerplant and so on."

"I'm not downplaying it, just a bit worried.

If it's a bug, then that's fine, even great. Bugs can be found and fixed.

If it's not actually a bug, and the towns are just too big and complex for even a high-end PC to handle at the moment without any stutters, that would be bad."

(I Really, Really hope it is a bug)

"I don't have bigger problems, or stutters with any other reasons that the towns take a while to load/draw, but I feel sorry for those who do suffer with the stutters or other performance issues.

I guess the first thing to do is check when the stutters occur, is it in some particular areas,

lowering texture quality and postprosessing, disabling ssao and pip, checking how much view distance and object visibility matters and so on.

Just to narrow down what's causing it. "

(You know, to fix something you first have to locate the problem)

"Don't get me wrong, few second stops ARE bad."

"If you are experiencing that in the ground with moderate visibility, then there is a performance issue for sure.

But is it something that the devs can resolve."

(As: Is it a bug or can it be resolved any other way than making "Altis Lite")

"A video of the problems would help to understand those who have the difficulties.

Then we could all say "Oh man, that is bad, I don't have it, but that looks really bad. Something must be done." "

(And not a smallest amount of sarcasm here, I swear on my mothers grave.)

Now, does that "sound" like: "it works for me = there can't be anything wrong with it"?

Edited August 31, 2013 by Azzur33

[Varanon 892]

Oh man. Over and over again.

Yes, that's why I stop discussing this with you. You obviously didn't even bother to read what I wrote but jump on words and details. This is proven by the fact that you still claim that I'm seeing normal stuttering when I clearly stated that it is not, a fact that you constantly ignore and cut out of anything you quoted from me.

No, you are not denying the problem, you just assume that you know the reason for it, which I say you don't.

[bad benson 1733]

Sigh.

You generalize -> I generalized back.

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

The Point was:

They don't help much.

Calm down. Read again. Understand.

get off your high horse and don't be such a smug. if there is an issue for several people and you generalize that it isn't there because not everyone has it then THAT "doesn't help".

i didn't generalize anything. several people have in issue. fact. deal with it.

if you have nothing to say besides your half asses technical explainations that no one needs then, again, move along. all you are doing here is showing that there is no point in what you are doing. everyone here is calmly describing their problems and calmly reacting to your pointless explainations aimed at rationalizing the problem in some weird way. that's the only thing that could even be remotely interpereted as not calm. the constant (by you) provoked answers by your utterly useless posts.

and spare me your "sigh", "you make melaugh" and "calm down" bs. if you think you need to try to make people look like raging crybabies and talk down on them to have a point at all then it's time to take a step back and reevaluate.

but please go on. you are very helpful and totally being a valuable contributor.

EDIT: i mean look at your last post. jesus. i remember you saying once that you are to old to clash egos on the internet...

[Azzur33 1]

Yes, that's why I stop discussing this with you. You obviously didn't even bother to read what I wrote but jump on words and details. This is proven by the fact that you still claim that I'm seeing normal stuttering when I clearly stated that it is not, a fact that you constantly ignore and cut out of anything you quoted from me.

No, you are not denying the problem, you just assume that you know the reason for it, which I say you don't.

I didn't jump on words when reading, I jumped on words when answering so I didn't have to paste the whole thing.

Normal stutter? No, you are having a Mega-Stutter, which mostly comes when the machine has to cope too much at that time.

We definitely must stop "discussing" about anything. Mostly because you read me totally wrong and assume that I'm attacking you somehow.

[Furret 0]

i was on a server last night and it was running altis and 3 times i had 3-4 second pauses ,there is a string of code somewhere being very naughty :(

That could be related to the server not sending you data. freezing you in place.

[bad benson 1733]

Normal stutter? No, you are having a Mega-Stutter, which mostly comes when the machine has to cope too much at that time.

BI listen to this guy! i think he has figured it out!

[Azzur33 1]

i didn't generalize anything. several people have in issue. fact. deal with it.

For the love of the god or something.

I was saying your "your "works for me, must be you"-logic." was a generalization.

get off your high horse and don't be such a smug. if there is an issue for several people and you generalize that it isn't there because not everyone has it then THAT "doesn't help".

i didn't generalize anything. several people have in issue. fact. deal with it.

if you have nothing to say besides your half asses technical explainations that no one needs then, again, move along. all you are doing here is showing that there is no point in what you are doing. everyone here is calmly describing their problems and calmly reacting to your pointless explainations aimed at rationalizing the problem in some weird way. that's the only thing that could even be remotely interpereted as not calm. the constant (by you) provoked answers by your utterly useless posts.

and spare me your "sigh", "you make melaugh" and "calm down" bs. if you think you need to try to make people look like raging crybabies and talk down on them to have a point at all then it's time to take a step back and reevaluate.

but please go on. you are very helpful and totally being a valuable contributor.

EDIT: i mean look at your last post. jesus. i remember you saying once that you are to old to clash egos on the internet...

Clashing egos?

You are constantly defending yourself from something I didn't write or mean.

And if I try to explain or make it clearer what I ment, you'll rage and defend even more. JESUS!

That is why I say, calm down. I'm not against you, I'm not defending anything, I'm not downlaying your problems, I'm not saying there is no problems. Constanly misunderstanding my posts and my intentions and slashing back for something that I haven't meant or said is just stupid.

So lets forget this and get back on the topic.

[bad benson 1733]

That is why I say, calm down. I'm not against you, I'm not defending anything, I'm not downlaying your problems, I'm not saying there is no problems. Constanly misunderstanding my posts and my intentions and slashing back for something that I haven't meant or said is just stupid.

ok what's the point of your posts then? telling everyone what they already know?

listen, how about this? you calm down and stop it with the lengthy off-topic posts and everyone will be happy. deal?

[Azzur33 1]

BI listen to this guy! i think he has figured it out!

Very funny.

If there is a bug, it doesn't tell your PC: "Please sleep a while", does it?

If the engine is not responding for a few seconds, it's doing something, and it's doing a lot of something.

I guess you agree?

[bad benson 1733]

dude. listen. i'm honestly not trying to be harsh but literally no one here is interested in your "explaination". so yea i obviously agree because i'm not retarded. as expected you are still missing the point though. but ok. i'll stop "raging" and not respond anymore. you have an agenda that is not related to the problem really, so what's the point? read everyone's posts again and you will maybe get it. and read yours too. can be revealing sometimes. calling others "defensive" and telling them to "calm down". maybe just maybe that applies to you much better?

anyways. have a nice day.no point in wasting it with this :)

[Azzur33 1]

ok what's the point of your posts then? telling everyone what they already know?

listen, how about this? you calm down and stop it with the lengthy off-topic posts and everyone will be happy. deal?

The point was In my first post.

-Some parts in Altis are heavy as hell.

Your point was:

-"There is a bug"

Then me:

-If it's a bug, thank heavens. Otherwise Altis is maybe too heavy for some.

Then slowly all hell breaks loose.

I can't really see why.

calling others "defensive" and telling them to "calm down". maybe just maybe that applies to you much better?

I'm defensive when someone refuses to understand what I wrote, or understands totally wrong, and takes something personally that wasn't meant to be personal and slashes me with no reason.

It's really annoying too.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Azzur33

[aus_twisted 0]

Anyone still get a frame syncing issue with vehicles only where it skips every second or so? I even noticed it when I'm watching AI drive from the side of a road. Don't have this problem flying choppers or driving boats etc, just seems to happen with vehicles and tanks.

I'm guessing it's a video card or driver issue since the Beta started, I'm using a ATI 6870 with Catalyst 13.4 driver.

[liquidpinky 11]

"I don't think that there is any other way to make Altis completely stutter free for everyone

It already was for me until they fixed the 32bit users problems and now it is gubbed.

[kylania 567]

It's late 2013, why is anyone still using a 32bit OS?

[aus_twisted 0]

Very funny.

If there is a bug, it doesn't tell your PC: "Please sleep a while", does it?

If the engine is not responding for a few seconds, it's doing something, and it's doing a lot of something.

I guess you agree?

What it's doing is loading objects into view, this is a issue when turning around in a area that has not been loaded and some parts are worse then others.

[kecske 46]

Is it just me or the sniper scope is horizontally inaccurate at higher distances?