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Thank you BIS! You put those binocs lower. Not sure did you watch my feedback but good job.

And that's the exact point that BP has raised above. I believe that even with an army of Devs watching the Bug Tracker, so many things are being over looked and missed. A lot of this is due to the stupid voting system, which is clearly being abused in so many ways as i pointed out in your bug tracker post Jimmy. Two people clearly voted it down for no valid reason.

If we are to be active reporters and take part in whats left of this Beta, how can we have any belief in what we are doing is worthwhile when idiots are trolling the tracker??

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Where I understand financial constraints and time limits are incredibly brutal for game development in this cut throat world we live in, I hope a new strategy for reporting and processing bugs will be deployed for A4's development if indeed it comes about, that doesn't rely on peoples opinions and rely on solely what the game needs to be the best it can be.
This is a flawed premise, the idea that somehow "what the game needs to be the best it can be" is somehow objective and not based on external factors... not least of which would include "dev's bias".

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Have you guys considered the crazy, almost impossible possibility that they just can't afford the manpower to grind through every issue on the tracker?

It's not like someones sat down in an office somewhere in Prague/Brno and gone "Right, today we're going to lower the Binoculars a bit, but we're not going to implement bipods because we don't want to do that. The community is dumb"

I can guarantee if they had a reasonable ability to do it, they would do it.

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super-speed tapdancing prolapse fixed

Always good to hear;-)

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super-speed tapdancing prolapse fixed

google translator didn't help me to understand that one :-/

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This is a flawed premise, the idea that somehow "what the game needs to be the best it can be" is somehow objective and not based on external factors... not least of which would include "dev's bias".

I don't know what to say that other than you have applied your opinion into what I have just said, hence my point with the bug tracker.

Have you guys considered the crazy, almost impossible possibility that they just can't afford the manpower to grind through every issue on the tracker?

It's not like someones sat down in an office somewhere in Prague/Brno and gone "Right, today we're going to lower the Binoculars a bit, but we're not going to implement bipods because we don't want to do that. The community is dumb"

I can guarantee if they had a reasonable ability to do it, they would do it.

Hence my point that it is fruitless to do it the way it currently is being done especially when the tracker is bias because reporters and given the opportunity to vote with an opinion if it should be fixed or not, a bug is a bug simple.

This is why I asked for a new bug tracking system if arma4 gets development time, An suggestion would be to create a core BIS hand picked community team of eg 100 testers could help far greater to the end outcome imo than the current system.

Edited by Bigpickle

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Have you guys considered the crazy, almost impossible possibility that they just can't afford the manpower to grind through every issue on the tracker?

It's not like someones sat down in an office somewhere in Prague/Brno and gone "Right, today we're going to lower the Binoculars a bit, but we're not going to implement bipods because we don't want to do that. The community is dumb"

I can guarantee if they had a reasonable ability to do it, they would do it.

Yes so is it worth reporting errors for them to ignore them and release a broken game?? And im sorry but the guys knew what they were taking on and then now they havent got enough manpower to do it? I hear bad planning in the initial stages, bad resourcing? you tell me??

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Have you guys considered the crazy, almost impossible possibility that they just can't afford the manpower to grind through every issue on the tracker?

It's not like someones sat down in an office somewhere in Prague/Brno and gone "Right, today we're going to lower the Binoculars a bit, but we're not going to implement bipods because we don't want to do that. The community is dumb"

I can guarantee if they had a reasonable ability to do it, they would do it.

I know within our company we have our QA department keeping tabs on bug reports from our forum (this doesn't stop our boss, producers and devs from doing it either) and assign confirmed issues to our internal tracking system (even if its first thing in the morning, split through-out the day, or towards the end of the day - There is some form of monitoring in place).

The main crunch of it is that our QA Department filter through issues and assign them priorities to the developers (after recreating/understanding the issue - Sometimes this can take several days to land in the queue of a developer as further information is required from the user).

Whether this is something that occurs within BIS I don't know.

If not, and a suggestion is permitted then I'd suggest the BIS QA department (as it's their job after all to report, track, test, regress, confirm fixes etc) do this additional role, and possibly the Producer(s)/Community forum staff.

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Walking with sw keys with Binoculars out cause's gun on you back to rotate 180 degrees.

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The main crunch of it is that our QA Department filter through issues and assign them priorities to the developers (after recreating/understanding the issue - Sometimes this can take several days to land in the queue of a developer as further information is required from the user).

I appreciate that this is the process and thanks for your valid input :) Whilst i gather that the whole process is a lengthy one, my worry is the lack of contact that appears to be happening now that the time constraints are beginning to show. For the Binocular issue to be fixed yet the tracker still remains open isn't really playing ball. If we are to use it correctly then the processes however time consuming that have been put into place should be adhered to, otherwise whats the point? http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=12185, this guy has taken the time to report this in the correct manner, and at no point during any of this has it been flagged that the Dev team are looking at it? yet today its fixed? oh and despite it being fixed it still remains open !!!!!! (13:16 gmt)

This also relates to the post by Tankbuster during the Breaklog week of the Port over. How can BIS be releasing Exes, which to me seem despite having a team of testers employed to check this stuff, release such game breaking exes? I appreciate there will be things that wont become apparent till they reach us and yes thats whats we are here for. But some of the errors that appear sometimes leave me thinking are you lot really paying attention when you release these exes?? Such as the Binos issue. Which then leads on to more serious issues and possibly extreme in some cases, but never the less still possible if no one is actually monitoring this correctly.

imagine we download tomorrows exe and it fries your pc somehow? or worse there's a sound update and it makes you permanently deaf?

Whilst so of you will no doubt be thinking this is extreme and yes perhaps it is, but if people are being employed to cover these bases, monitoring, checking, QA etc, why arent the simple things being done?

Basically im begging you to do more detailed Dev Changelogs and be on the ball, its not a dig just a wish that come release date, we have a game we all want to play and have massive faith in... not some broken poor excuse due to money and time not allowing it

Edited by Champy_UK

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An suggestion would be to create a core BIS hand picked community team of eg 100 testers could help far greater to the end outcome imo than the current system.
At which point the very choice of "which" testers would be inherently subjective... and too small a sample, frankly. In any case, whether or not the devs consider something a bug, much less a priority, isn't dependent on the number of upvotes (as if the bipods ticket didn't already tell you that -- by far the most votes out of everyone, yet Dwarden has basically said "can't guarantee it" and on at least one other hot-item ticket he's basically said "we were told to go work on something else") nor is it going to be "helped" by fewer testers.

Definitely looking forward to seeing the Feedback Tracker for Arma 4!

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For the Binocular issue to be fixed yet the tracker still remains open isn't really playing ball. If we are to use it correctly then the processes however time consuming that have been put into place should be adhered to, otherwise whats the point?

If it's like some other fixes, which are more like WIP progressions, maybe when it's signed off as a fix will it be signed off in the tracker.

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google translator didn't help me to understand that one :-/

It was relating to a post from last night :) Think it was one of those 'you had to be there at the time' to appreciate it ;)

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

If it's like some other fixes, which are more like WIP progressions, maybe when it's signed off as a fix will it be signed off in the tracker.

yes but my point is CONTACT, if you read the tracker how do you know :- its being looked at ? its WIP ? WTH is going on?

there's no feedback, therefore there's no communication, leaves No contact ;)

And low and behold... a post on the tracker .... not a dig at you MadDogX but and i quote ....

MadDogX (moderator)

2013-08-06 13:00

So this can be marked as resolved?

Wheres the communication between the Devs and the guys policing the tracker... poor show :(

Edited by Champy_UK

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Wheres the communication between the Devs and the guys policing the tracker... poor show :(

EDIT: I see you're a different guy. Never mind.

Anyway, I am not supplied with any lists of resolved issues. If they had time to do that, they could probably close the tickets themselves.

Edited by MadDogX

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I would say that allowing it to be done to someone satisfaction is correct but is that how its supposed to be? I know we have input and are allowed to give our 5p but surely the control belongs to BIS and the DEV team to say they are happy with it overall??

I was thinking that you get a list and then apply it to the tracker closing the fixed issues, didnt realise you had to ask us first if we were happy with it :P

Btw its Jimmys thread ;)

Was merely highlighting the Led Zep attitude of Communication breakdown :) (If your too young to know Led Zep, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzOLaecjsE :) )

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I try to publish something on the workshop and no matter how many times I click 'accept' it just keeps bringing me back to this screen

http://i.imgur.com/BZDyH4k.png (210 kB)

Any ideas anyone?

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My joystick problem was fixed by making a fresh profile! Tested with latest dev-build 0.75.108.570.

/KC

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EDIT: I see you're a different guy. Never mind.

Anyway, I am not supplied with any lists of resolved issues. If they had time to do that, they could probably close the tickets themselves.

you mean to tell me with the wonders of modern technology that its not possible to link it all together??...hmmm :)

We manage to apply all of this to our project and make it work. I do understand that this is based on a team of 4 guys opposed to a larger group, but my point still relates back to organizing it all correctly.. its not happening...

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It was relating to a post from last night :) Think it was one of those 'you had to be there at the time' to appreciate it ;)

---------- Post added at 13:21 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

yes but my point is CONTACT, if you read the tracker how do you know :- its being looked at ? its WIP ? WTH is going on?

there's no feedback, therefore there's no communication, leaves No contact ;)

And low and behold... a post on the tracker .... not a dig at you MadDogX but and i quote ....

MadDogX (moderator)

2013-08-06 13:00

So this can be marked as resolved?

Wheres the communication between the Devs and the guys policing the tracker... poor show :(

The FT moderators are mostly pre-screening and cleanup.

The ticket sits as new because 5 community guys can't reasonably go through all tickets, assign each of them a status, check for duplicates, communicate with the ticket author in case something is unclear and keep tabs on what's going on with all of them. We mark tickets as reviewed as a sign that one of the moderators has looked at it, confirmed that it exists and can be reprod by the repro steps given. When the tickets are "reviewed" they're then down to BI guys to decide what to do next with them and who needs to deal with it. And that's about it.

The cleanup bit is in relation to tickets that we found out were fixed but never changed status, for example, that's what MadDogX is doing there. Nobody touched the ticket yet the comments are coming in as "good job BIS!". He wants to know from the ticket author if the resolution to the ticket is valid and be marked as resolved. In the end, devs might consider something resolved, but the resolution for the ticket poster might not be satisfactory or the resolution might not be in the current build we publicly have.

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At which point the very choice of "which" testers would be inherently subjective... and too small a sample, frankly. In any case, whether or not the devs consider something a bug, much less a priority, isn't dependent on the number of upvotes (as if the bipods ticket didn't already tell you that -- by far the most votes out of everyone, yet Dwarden has basically said "can't guarantee it" and on at least one other hot-item ticket he's basically said "we were told to go work on something else") nor is it going to be "helped" by fewer testers.

Definitely looking forward to seeing the Feedback Tracker for Arma 4!

A logical assertion from your statement adds more weight to the feedback tracker is in its current rendition is effectively useless, using the three points you described summed up:

  • Votes don't count

  • Reporting doesn't guarantee acknowledgement

  • Development effort easily routed away from known bug(s)

So, therefore it is not of much benefit having a bug tracker when its current situation appears to not achieve anything as you so kindly pointed out.

With the greatest due respect, I'd like you to stop splitting heirs in what I'm saying and trying to apply your own meaning to my words just to call fault.

Edited by Bigpickle

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The FT moderators are mostly pre-screening and cleanup.

The ticket sits as new because 5 community guys can't reasonably go through all tickets, assign each of them a status, check for duplicates, communicate with the ticket author in case something is unclear and keep tabs on what's going on with all of them. We mark tickets as reviewed as a sign that one of the moderators has looked at it, confirmed that it exists and can be reprod by the repro steps given. When the tickets are "reviewed" they're then down to BI guys to decide what to do next with them and who needs to deal with it. And that's about it.

The cleanup bit is in relation to tickets that we found out were fixed but never changed status, for example, that's what MadDogX is doing there. Nobody touched the ticket yet the comments are coming in as "good job BIS!". He wants to know from the ticket author if the resolution to the ticket is valid and be marked as resolved. In the end, devs might consider something resolved, but the resolution for the ticket poster might not be satisfactory or the resolution might not be in the current build we publicly have.

Thank you for your reply and for taking the time to explain the processes that are involved with the Bug tracker. But my point still remains, why if the DEVS have fixed it, tinkered with it, WIP, whatever... why isnt there any response as per other tickets that it is in hand or as now it seems apparently fixed?

Its not a dig at you or MadDogX or the team that monitor the BT, its a question of how can something that gets reported as an issue appear in an update yet remain on the tracker unresolved?

Surely this then causes you guys more work?? and makes the process of reporting bit of a waste of time??

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