General Discussion (dev branch)

[instagoat 133]

I have a question. I found that AI unit weapons dispersion is way off the charts for me, and when I came back from my hiatus to check out tanks, the problem was exacerbated as it seems. I have made a thread here:

 

Is anybody else affected by this? It only hits AI units for me. All mods are turned off. Player weapons accuracy is completely fine, which is making me think this is a game issue.

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

On 2/27/2018 at 2:19 PM, oukej said:

We tweaked the fuel capacities while reworking the tank PhysX configuration. This is bringing other vehicles in line. Because for whatever reason previously the fuel played only a little role we couldn't change it as much as we'd like to. But in a long mil-sim scenario (talking about e.g. 2-3h sessions) you should definitely feel the difference.

 

While you're at it tweaking fuel values, any chance the support vehicle configs getting looked at (transportFuel, transportRepair, transportAmmo), since they're out of whack holding 1*10^12 cargo units (one trillion!).

Bringing those values down to realistic levels could add another layer to mission making, so you could have logistics in mind and reward a fuel truck being able to refill your bases aircraft for a realistic amount of times.

As of now, with the HEMTT fuel truck (and most other) holding 1 trillion (or in numbers 1.000.000.000.000l) it's basically infinite.

 

 

Ticket has been out there some time now.

 

This is also being used as an exploit in MP games, where players position 2 bobcats next to each other are basically unkillable unless they're getting one shot by a gbu, since these vehicles hold one trillion of each ammo, fuel and repair and therefor refueling, rearming and repairing each other instantly.

 

Cheers

[joostsidy 685]

14 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

As of now, with the HEMTT fuel truck (and most other) holding 1 trillion (or in numbers 1.000.000.000.000l) it's basically infinite.

 

 

I think BI set it like this exactly for the reason to simulate infinite resources. Just as with the fuel consumption / supplies, it's kinda hard to determine a reasonable level of these supplies because of the large variation in mission scope possible. Some missions go on forever and can use realistic fuel and ammo supplies. Most missions are more 'gamey' and could use smaller supplies to add a logistics factor to the mission. A complicating factor is that the whole arma-verse is 'compacted' with much shorter missions times and distances compared to rl, so what is realistic / authentic?

 

Personally, I don't mind the slight cop-out of infinite supplies. In missions where limited supply is a factor I add my own script to give for instance three reloads to your vehicle.

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, another complicating factor is that the supplies consists of magical matter that can be transformed into any reload, like bullets or missiles. If you decrease the supply number you can get weird situations, where you can reload your Browning M2 ten times which sounds good, but can get only one missile from the truck, because the missile is so expensive in 'points'. And maybe these cost points are related to supply mass, so you cannot change it to whatever without creating a mess?

[darkChozo 133]

Is there even a way to refill supply trucks without using scripts? It doesn't make much sense to simulate the limited storage space on trucks if there's no way to actually put things in that space. And if you do build a scripted logistics system, it's pretty easy to also adjust the "max" supply level on a vehicle to be more realistic.

 

Also, the Bobcat issue seems to be more of a problem with the vehicle repair system then the supply system. Even if you limited the Bobcat's repair store to, say, 5 full repairs worth, that's still a pair of vehicles that are 6 times as durable as they should be. The real problem is that the vehicles can quickly repair each other without impacting their combat performance or putting their crews in danger.

[rübe 127]

1 hour ago, darkChozo said:

The real problem is that the vehicles can quickly repair each other without impacting their combat performance or putting their crews in danger.

Agreed. The level of abstraction was fine for OFP, but now with Arma 3 it's just way too high. Actual units should have to perform actual work (some nice animations with some predefined repair-positions per vehicle or something, or just some position based on the bounding box as a fallback... and maybe even some walking around, dragging/moving parts from here to there) in order to repair a vehicle. And similarly, actual units (or machines/some process) should have to do some job to refill fuel/ammunition (or for vehicle customization).

The important factors here are: clear visibility of what's going on (actions, animations), time (not so much resource!) consumption in a state unable to fight/handle weaponry, and hence the opportunity to (forcefully) interrupt that process.

 

It's a difficult thing to decide what should be modelled and on what level, especially on the logistics side of things. But abstracting physical work completely away, turning it into a magical one-click action... that just cuts out far too much fun and interesting gameplay opportunity.

[Beagle 684]

An often seen exploit of the "magic repair" is the MBT+Repair Truck combo... empty Truck is located 10m behind a ridge, MBT performs hull down and roll back after every hit it took, comes up again fresh and sound after seconds. You can sink 6 INfanrty fired Titans without effect into such an MBT until You get killed.

[lexx 1363]

^ this is easily avoidable with a simple script command, though. setFuelCargo, setAmmoCargo, setRepairCargo. Now if the mission creators don't utilize them... that's a different topic.

 

I guess joostsidy is right here, because this way in "normal" gameplay you have unlimited resources, but if wanted, you can easily limit them to whatever value suits your needs.

[R3vo 2654]

43 minutes ago, lexx said:

^ this is easily avoidable with a simple script command, though. setFuelCargo, setAmmoCargo, setRepairCargo. Now if the mission creators don't utilize them... that's a different topic.

 

I guess joostsidy is right here, because this way in "normal" gameplay you have unlimited resources, but if wanted, you can easily limit them to whatever value suits your needs.

Would be nice if those commands would be available as attributes in Eden.

[lex__1 422]

55 minutes ago, Beagle said:

An often seen exploit of the "magic repair" is the MBT+Repair Truck combo... empty Truck is located 10m behind a ridge, MBT performs hull down and roll back after every hit it took, comes up again fresh and sound after seconds. You can sink 6 INfanrty fired Titans without effect into such an MBT until You get killed.

Such missions are so bad, where recharging and repair are unlimited and free.
In the right mission, you will spend time and resources on this.

[Zygzak191 52]

1 hour ago, Beagle said:

An often seen exploit of the "magic repair" is the MBT+Repair Truck combo... empty Truck is located 10m behind a ridge, MBT performs hull down and roll back after every hit it took, comes up again fresh and sound after seconds. You can sink 6 INfanrty fired Titans without effect into such an MBT until You get killed.

You can (or could, I've played with it long time ago) do even better than that, wearing rebreather and attaching a repair offroad/truck to the tank allowed you to drive on the bottom of the sea.

[Beagle 684]

14 minutes ago, Zygzak191 said:

You can (or could, I've played with it long time ago) do even better than that, wearing rebreather and attaching a repair offroad/truck to the tank allowed you to drive on the bottom of the sea.

please change your rank to "Master of exploit" ;)

[x3kj 1247]

With fuel consumption beeing no where near realistic (not even proportional... as in car using up similar or higher amount than MBT), i am less worried about fuelsupply beeing infinite - the whole resupply system is barbarically crude and hardcoded, the only way to get any "salvation" for us is to make one from scratch on our own.

Ammo "cost" is even worse nightmarish case. It influences rearming speed, AI logics for what ammo to prefer, amount of resupply it drains, etc, etc. It's like a WD-40 config property. "Hm we need some parameter for this? ... oh what gives, just use cost".

[POLPOX 778]

Nicely done BI.

 

EDIT: Woah, you guys expecting something about performance? Ha. I AM ACTUALLY LOVING THIS NEW FEATURE.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

I have to say I agree, some missions are designed to go on essentially forever. I love the idea of having to resupply more often, and quite enjoy missions which make this a thing to consider, but please don’t lower the amount the supply assets themselves hold.

 

Imagine having to end a mission simply because a fuel truck ran out of fuel. Or make mission makers have to place an infinite amount of fuel trucks. 

 

IMO having to resupply more often = good. Having the resupply assets run out of supplies = bad from a gaming standpoint.

[scavenjer 112]

On 28-2-2018 at 1:27 PM, lonewolf96 said:

Doesnt appear that the DAGRs and other anti ground/anti tank missile is able to lock on when mounted on the Hellcat and the pawnee? a bit disappointing in my opinion. 

Hellcat can lock with them, but they need to be used by the "co-pilot".

Pawnee can't and in all honesty shouldn't be able to use lock on missiles as it has no electronics to do so.

[SuicideKing 233]

57 minutes ago, scavenjer said:

Hellcat can lock with them, but they need to be used by the "co-pilot".

hellcat pilot can lock on too, but the HUD cursor has to be over the target. ditto for the orca.

 

57 minutes ago, scavenjer said:

Pawnee can't and in all honesty shouldn't be able to use lock on missiles as it has no electronics to do so.

neither do the hellcat and orca. Pawnee should (in theory) be able to lock via boresight. if the missiles can't be locked then they should simply be removed as options - they're just useless at present.

 

see 

 

cc: @lonewolf96

[scavenjer 112]

18 minutes ago, SuicideKing said:

hellcat pilot can lock on too, but the HUD cursor has to be over the target. ditto for the orca.

 

neither do the hellcat and orca. Pawnee should (in theory) be able to lock via boresight. if the missiles can't be locked then they should simply be removed as options - they're just useless at present.

 

see 

 

cc: @lonewolf96

Hmm, interesting, I tried locking with the hellcat pilot but never succeeded, that's why I thought the missiles needed some form of electronics like a thermal sight to give them the initial info.

[Beagle 684]

1 hour ago, scavenjer said:

Hmm, interesting, I tried locking with the hellcat pilot but never succeeded, that's why I thought the missiles needed some form of electronics like a thermal sight to give them the initial info.

RL a lot of missiles use their own seeker for target aquisition, additional sensors just make that job easier. In some cases the MFD in the cockpit just shows what the missile seeker can "see". Examples are: Maverick, Sidewinder, Stinger etc. You could basically mount a sidewinder on any aircraft, you just need a wire to the seeker for uncaging and for the lock "tone".

 

in AFM mode on Helos the restriction come by nature....you will not be able to lift of with heavy Missiles, That is a problem since with arcade FM there is no payload restriction.

[scavenjer 112]

17 minutes ago, Beagle said:

RL a lot of missiles use their own seeker for target aquisition, additional sensors just make that job easier. In some cases the MFD in the cockpit just shows what the missile seeker can "see". Examples are: Maverick, Sidewinder, Stinger etc. You could basically mount a sidewinder on any aircraft, you just need a wire to the seeker for uncaging and for the lock "tone".

 

in AFM mode on Helos the restriction come by nature....you will not be able to lift of with heavy Missiles, That is a problem since with arcade FM there is no payload restriction.

Yeah, I knew most of these examples and used em in DCS for example, honestly didn't cros my mind DAGRs would have the same mechanics.

[ski2060 167]

Assuming they get in Lock on After Launch, then any missiles with Laser Seeker heads should be kept as is.   This will allow shots from over a horizon to a Laser Designated target.
 

[Beagle 684]

9 hours ago, scavenjer said:

Yeah, I knew most of these examples and used em in DCS for example, honestly didn't cros my mind DAGRs would have the same mechanics.

in ArmA, there is always a bit of "magic" involved to keep things simple ;)

It will never come even close to DCS, At least I hope so because DCS is turning into a hardware devouring nightmare right now. If you try to simulate every nut and bolt you lose large scale scenario playability very fast.

[Larrow 2820]

Seeing as you are making some improvements to the Revive system, any chance while you are there you could put some state change hooks in for us via BIS_fnc_callScriptedEventHandler? they used to exist before the rewrite in 1.56. Would just make handling state changes that much easier rather than having some scheduled code continually checking for state changes or having to remove your events and inserting our own with modifications that still call BI's functions.

[POLPOX 778]

If you use #(select) script command in #define, it causes an error.

#define	DEFINE_TEST	player setPos [getPosATL player select 0,getPosATL player select 1,(getPosATL player select 2) + 1] ;	//Works well
#define	DEFINE_TEST	player setPos [getPosATL player # 0,getPosATL player # 1,(getPosATL player # 2) + 1] ;	//Error

 

[lex__1 422]

Fix it. Any camouflage suit _Ghillie_ + machine gun Zafir + optical sight ERCO, RCO, ARCO, MRCO - reproduce a bad view.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T79829

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T123251

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T127272

 

[reyhard 2082]

48 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

Fix it.

I'm afraid there is no easy fix for it - several attempts were made in past but all failed since it would require weapon remodeling