General Discussion (dev branch)

[petek 62]

Lot of fun with the new FFV from commander hatch position. - Thank you BIS!!!

Bug report - seems when turned out in these positions you can't command driver using WASD commands - you can only order direction using waypoints. Only tried NATO armour at the moment though.....

Cheers and keep up the good work!

[enex 11]

Finger on the trigger and selector switch not on safe? Bad weapon discipline :)

Cool new feature though.

http://i57.tinypic.com/1zyik55.jpg

Here some more badass poses

Which leads me - do normally commanders hold rifles* with them when using binoculars?

It looks cool but to be honest I would rather see gun up with binoculars on ground infantry

and commanders with binocs only .

But this is minor issue.

*The reason for not using guns is very simple - it's cumbersome and enemy is usually too far away

to really offer danger to a commander.

Edited February 11, 2015 by enex

[roberthammer 582]

Turn out FFV is good ,but yea holding that weapon while using binoculars is kinda awkward - only for cool factor tho

more logical would be on sling like this http://www.rusmilitary.com/images/tc_crew.jpg

and those commaders in FFV mode with weapon could rotate 180* meaning no limits unless that hatch is blocking

then i have noticed while using only a pistol in copilot (Ah9) you are kinda stuck in the out position , you can't really go back inside like with the rifle

Edited February 11, 2015 by RobertHammer

[Brisse 78]

IRL, if commander decides to use binoculars, rifle would probably be left on weapon rack inside vehicle, but that's no fun :)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Here some more badass poses

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o492/zemljaje11/arma3%202015-02-11%2016-12-37-458_zpstxxiyzcl.jpg

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o492/zemljaje11/arma3%202015-02-11%2016-11-39-112_zps4twuvy7m.jpg

Which leads me - do normally commanders hold rifles* with them when using binoculars?

It looks cool but to be honest I would rather see gun up with binoculars with ground infantry

and commanders with only binocs.

But this is minor issue.

*The reason for not using guns is very simple - it's cumbersome and enemy is usually too far away

to really offer danger to a commander.

It's a great feature, but there is a problem this type of change has made, helicopters are much worse in regards to this, while the commanders of tanks could be forgiven for this.

xH-9 Helicopter copilots are now always in a type of a "I'm soooooooo ready to fire out of this helicopter" when not actively piloting if they have a weapon, which doesn't make sense for a copilot, at least to me. Especially considering that they now have MORE capability to fight back as a crewman with a job in there, than the first two cargo seats which are just casually sitting there. It makes the copilot appear rambo at all times.

Reference to "Drawdown 2035" and "Rising Tensions" missions as they are now. Co-pilots no longer seem like they're actually focused on doing their job of co-piloting, but as if they're going target hunting and they just find that seat better than the bench. Sure, this will get fixed by the mission makers when they don't want such behavior, but in the end, as a player or AI, you no longer have an option besides acting like a copilot UNLESS you get rid of all your weapons.

The "offensive co-pilot" should be a switch from your default stance to "ok, defending the helicopter with my pea-shooter is now more important than actually helping the pilot do his job".

There is no way for a player or AI to "stand down" as a copilot and act like before unless the mission maker specifically uses enablePersonTurret on them.

The benches are ok with the current system of "weapon down (default) <-> weapon up" as historically they've always been in a "weapon down" state even before FFV, and it makes sense for them, but copilots actually need 3 state system to make it "sane", "hands on the controls (default) <-> weapon down (hmm, I might need to defend the chopper) <-> weapon up".

The least amount of work would probably be to make the "hands on the controls" a default state when the weapon is down, and the transition to "weapon up" when "raise weapon" is pressed. Sure, we lose the cool weapon down pose, but, eh.

Edit:

Also a bug that this has introduced is that the co-pilot no holder holds the controls of the helicopter in first person view when unarmed (rendering issue I suppose, body rendered after the helo with no depth checks). And when armed, the co-pilot has the cyclic stick in his leg

Edited February 11, 2015 by Sniperwolf572

[Electricleash 133]

The least amount of work would probably be to make the "hands on the controls" a default state when the weapon is down, and the transition to "weapon up" when "raise weapon" is pressed as there is no easy toggle control for this, like for example the back seats for the Mohawk. Sure, we lose the cool weapon down pose, but, eh.

@Sniperwolf572 I see your point in that the default stances may not be quite set up in the logical way, however I really don't want to lose that 'cool weapon down pose'.

In all honesty the x-h6's are primarily Spec-ops choppers, so rarely is the co-pilot seat used as a 'co-pilot' in the defined sense of the word.

Personally I think the current implementation works as it should, If I really want to be a co-pilot then I will merely put away my weapons.

As an addendum, I really like the new implementation and I hope it carries across to the two rear seats of the MH-6.

E

[Sniperwolf572 758]

@Sniperwolf572 I see your point in that the default stances may not be quite set up in the logical way, however I really don't want to lose that 'cool weapon down pose'.

In all honesty the x-h6's are primarily Spec-ops choppers, so rarely is the co-pilot seat used as a 'co-pilot' in the defined sense of the word.

Personally I think the current implementation works as it should, If I really want to be a co-pilot then I will merely put away my weapons.

I'm gonna pull the age old "look at these BHD stills" move and argue that not even Hollywood goes to the point of making the "spec-ops chopper" co-pilots go in a state of "I'mma gonna shoot me some things" unless they're in dire need. :p

I believe that there's a reason the seat is a co-pilot seat, that most helicopters are actually operated by two people and that one of the reasons isn't "so the other guy can shoot his 9mm".

While I also love the feature, and I'll agree that the possibility is there to do so when necessary, I'm just questioning the default state of those pilots.

Making the 2 guys in the back FFV when appropriate would also get my vote as it makes more sense for them to shoot things if necessary.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Sniperwolf572

[gliptal 25]

Co pilots are pilots even on the Little Bird family, spec-ops operations or not. That said I'm pretty sure they normally have a handgun on themselves and a carbine of some sorts behind the seats.

During Mogadishu Battle in 1993 AH6 pilots and copilots did engage with their rifles though, shooting from their seats both while in the air or on the ground. Copilot Jones left his AH6 to carry wounded Delta operator Busch to his helo while pilot Maier provided cover fire from the cockpit, actually denying direct orders to leave the area if I'm not mistaken. He also nearly shot Eversmann's chalk.

This is to say that although copilots are by all means airmen, they are also "expected" to handle a gun in tense situations.

Yay!

[Electricleash 133]

Ok now I just realized what you meant, in my test I wasn't using an actual 'pilot' character, instead a regular soldier. which looked fine.

Having just placed the MH9 in Zeus and seeing the stance the 'Pilot' model defaults it does seem a little strange. ;)

So yeah, the default position should be 'hand on stick'. Then possibly having an action in the same way as you have 'Take Control' to switch to defensive stance; weapon down would be the ideal.

E

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Bug report - seems when turned out in these positions you can't command driver using WASD commands - you can only order direction using waypoints. Only tried NATO armour at the moment though....

Indeed, it's kind of annoying to have to turn back in now to command the vehicle with WASD.

Also, on the Kuma that has two turn out FFV positions (commander and gunner), if you turn out as overall commander of the vehicle the other positions will turn out with you like normal, but when you turn back in, the other crew position in the turret will remain turned out in FFV. If you then switch to their position to try and make them turn in manually, the other crew position will turn out again and not follow when you turn in - so you end up playing some sort of "Whac-a-mole" game switching between seats trying to get both units to turn in.

[Electricleash 133]

Ahhh, also just found a bug:

It appears that when you are in the copilot seat of the MH9 looking out the front glass, the ocean disappears.

Circled Red should be ocean.

When you 'Take Controls', the ocean appears again.

Anyone confirm? I have an FB ticket set up ready if that's the case.

E

[Jackal326 1181]

Ahhh, also just found a bug:

It appears that when you are in the copilot seat of the MH9 looking out the front glass, the ocean disappears.

http://6.t.imgbox.com/coMsTfs2.jpg

Circled Red should be ocean.

When you 'Take Controls', the ocean appears again.

Anyone confirm? I have an FB ticket set up ready if that's the case.

E

Ahh the good old 'Alpha Ghosting' issue looks to rear its ugly head again...

[supercereal4 29]

So yeah, the default position should be 'hand on stick'. Then possibly having an action in the same way as you have 'Take Control' to switch to defensive stance; weapon down would be the ideal.

I also support this option. have the two options be "hands on stick" (default) and "weapon up leaning out badass mode engaged" (double tap Ctrl).

I'd go as far as saying that it should be like that for the tanks too. I'm already feeling nostalgic for the unarmed turned out pose. So I'd advocate the same option "unarmed turn-out" (Default) and then "Rambo-Alamo-Brad Pitt Fury guns out mode" (double tap ctrl)

on a semi-related note, there's a bug when using the Vermin SMG turned out in the copilot seat of the xH-9 while on 3 round burst. There's no reload animation and you can fire through all your mags at once. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=22672

Edited February 11, 2015 by supercereal4

[insumsnoy 4]

Found a small bug with FFV in copilot position: Weapon fire, missiles and explosions cannot be seen through the helicopters' windscreen.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Also, some shenanigans with this feature and take/release controls. ;)

Now I just need M32 and some aiming practice. :D

Note that it might not be obvious at first, but the pilot seat is empty.

[Jackal326 1181]

Also, some shenanigans with this feature and take/release controls. ;)

Now I just need M32 and some aiming practice. :D

Note that it might not be obvious at first, but the pilot seat is empty.

and preventing people from cheating by setting allowdamage to false for choppers (I'm pretty sure you should have exploded in the second video mate :D). EDIT: On first look I thought you crashed the helo after firing the UGL, but I think it was the fish-eye view caused by the head swivel) :P

[Sniperwolf572 758]

and preventing people from cheating by setting allowdamage to false for choppers (I'm pretty sure you should have exploded in the second video mate :D). EDIT: On first look I thought you crashed the helo after firing the UGL, but I think it was the fish-eye view caused by the head swivel) :P

And the fact that VR is a big gray box that messes with depth perception. Altimeter is the proof that I don't ever go below 10m, so absolutely no cheating. :p

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

And the fact that VR is a big gray box that messes with depth perception. Altimeter is the proof that I don't ever go below 10m, so absolutely no cheating. :p

I hate Virtual reality exactly for that reason. The depth perception is crazy sketch. I tried flying a jet there, and i never ever did it again.

[five_seven5-7 56]

Here some more badass poses

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o492/zemljaje11/arma3%202015-02-11%2016-12-37-458_zpstxxiyzcl.jpg

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o492/zemljaje11/arma3%202015-02-11%2016-11-39-112_zps4twuvy7m.jpg

Which leads me - do normally commanders hold rifles* with them when using binoculars?

It looks cool but to be honest I would rather see gun up with binoculars on ground infantry

and commanders with binocs only .

But this is minor issue.

*The reason for not using guns is very simple - it's cumbersome and enemy is usually too far away

to really offer danger to a commander.

Is there any sort of penalization because of the tank hatch(time in/out; restricted type of use guns or only pistols in some cases) when using large assault rifles instead of submachine/carabine? Otherwise commander will use machine guns; snipers and dmr rifles.

[SilentSpike 84]

Anyone had some weirdness with dialogs opening again when you close them?

I'm not sure if it's specific to module dialogs when in the zeus interface, but I haven't had the chance to test more in-depth yet.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Anyone else having issues with sinking vehicles in multiplayer?

[R3vo 2654]

Is there any sort of penalization because of the tank hatch(time in/out; restricted type of use guns or only pistols in some cases) when using large assault rifles instead of submachine/carabine? Otherwise commander will use machine guns; snipers and dmr rifles.

Some weapons should definitely blacklisted. Of course with the option to whitelist them with scripting.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Some weapons should definitely blacklisted. Of course with the option to whitelist them with scripting.

I disagree. Now that vehicle inertia is being implemented that should help take care of all those who wish to operate their .50 BMG from the top of a tank. I think a bit of a storm-in-a-teacup is being brewed and people are having nightmares of hordes of people operating Zafir's from atop their T100s while storming through the AO.

This is a feature that while absolutely wonderful to have (THANKS BIS!!!) but in reality it will not see that much usage. In the majority of cases it's going to simply be far easier to either just engage the target with your RWS and in the case that you don't have any armament you would just notify your gunner to engage. Just like current FFV situations. I've lost count the number of times I've seen an MH-9 fly down into an LZ with people on the sides firing away; it usually ends up with a lot of dead people on the side of a helicopter.

The only real time that engaging targets with your personal defence weapon while turned out would occur is in tight urban scenarios where in reality a tank would be unable to traverse its turret. This is not the case in A3 (last I checked) because the barrel does not have a collision model. From memory every commanders position has thermal imaging as well so turning out with bino's in hand will almost be a negative as you lose a huge chunk of situational awareness. In my experience the only time I turn out is when I'm in a safe area and I'm directing my driver.

Don't get me wrong however I love this feature and personally can't wait to charge around in my CTRG uniform atop an M4UP while my black beret sits atop my head with bino's in hand: just call me Monty ;)

[R3vo 2654]

I disagree. Now that vehicle inertia is being implemented that should help take care of all those who wish to operate their .50 BMG from the top of a tank. I think a bit of a storm-in-a-teacup is being brewed and people are having nightmares of hordes of people operating Zafir's from atop their T100s while storming through the AO.

This is a feature that while absolutely wonderful to have (THANKS BIS!!!) but in reality it will not see that much usage. In the majority of cases it's going to simply be far easier to either just engage the target with your RWS and in the case that you don't have any armament you would just notify your gunner to engage. Just like current FFV situations. I've lost count the number of times I've seen an MH-9 fly down into an LZ with people on the sides firing away; it usually ends up with a lot of dead people on the side of a helicopter.

The only real time that engaging targets with your personal defence weapon while turned out would occur is in tight urban scenarios where in reality a tank would be unable to traverse its turret. This is not the case in A3 (last I checked) because the barrel does not have a collision model. From memory every commanders position has thermal imaging as well so turning out with bino's in hand will almost be a negative as you lose a huge chunk of situational awareness. In my experience the only time I turn out is when I'm in a safe area and I'm directing my driver.

Don't get me wrong however I love this feature and personally can't wait to charge around in my CTRG uniform atop an M4UP while my black beret sits atop my head with bino's in hand: just call me Monty ;)

Yeah, you are right, I absolutely forgot about inertia. And it's true that this feature is awesome, but won't find much use in most scenarios. I've actually never used it in a serious mission.

However, there is one use for the commander turn out feature. You can hide the the whole tank behind a hill and still be able to peak over it.

[chortles 263]

Yeah, you are right, I absolutely forgot about inertia.

It's an important item because that aspect of "realistic balancing" (that is, including real-world downsides) was implemented even before this feature itself.

However, there is one use for the commander turn out feature. You can hide the the whole tank behind a hill and still be able to peak over it.

That seems only applicable for vehicles that don't have a "commander's periscope" though...? (Thanks to the inclusion of turret elevation.)