Suppression Effect missing in ARMA3

[sqb-sma 66]

Just saying... this is false. You may continue

Haha, IRL if someone fired a gun centimeters away from your head, even if you knew it was friendly, you'd jump like a motherfucker and possibly suffer permanent hearing loss. Most soldiers refuse to wear the ear protection so... well this clip should explain:

[bad benson 1733]

A person who provokes others (chiefly on the Internet) for their own personal amusement or to cause disruption.

ah thx for that. "disruptive" was the word i was looking for to describe your first post about RO. looking at how seriously you seem to take yourself i must assume you don't even get any amusement from all of that. i did, from pushing your buttons, though. :p *hides under bridge*

your reasoning is still shite and you ignore the whole differentiated discussion on the past pages...:rolleyes:

[froggyluv 2130]

Eh, "hardcore training tool"? VBS2 can be described as many things, but not "hardcore". Even compared to Arma, it's a quite basic, simple training tool. Note, a training tool, not a "gold standard Simulation" as you call it. To drag VBS2 into this and compare it on the same scales as games and sims isn't remotely reasonable, it's like comparing the colours of apples and dragging a pineapple into it.

Drag VBS2 into this...just lol. I believe it was you that 'dragged RO2' into it but no longer seem to care for these comparisons as VBS2 flies literally in the face of your argument. Trying to downplay VBS as some simple tool as if Arma series lies far to the right of it on the realism spectrum is so ludicrous it no longer warrants debate. I can dig up actual military instructors feedback on the usefulness of VBS for their cadets if you really want but somehow I feel like I'd be wasting my time...

[dmarkwick 261]

I don't understand. Is VBS not a simulation designed for militaries to use to train soldiers. Wouldn't it only make sense for such a simulation to have as realistic features as possible. Wouldn't that mean that there is at least some shred of realistic reasoning behind suppression effects - I mean they wouldn't just throw it in to make the game arcadey would they?

VBS is a training tool - it is at it's commercial nature a collection of commissioned features & assets. So if X feature is in it, it's there because some customer ordered and paid for it. It then gets analysed, abstracted and implemented.

[-ghost-tf 12]

Ghost: I posted in this thread several months before you even registered on the forums, so maybe you should cut down on being high and mighty with the whole "new guy joining the discussion"?

I wasnt specificly referring to you, but the fact that you have been with this thread since page 3, and still completely ignore everything that has been said for the past 50 pages, just blows my mind..

[scrim 1]

Not false... very false! I still remember when I shot my G3 with the end of its barrel near my buddy's head (we were ambushed, spotted the enemy and all we thought about was shooting him. I'm just glad we were using salvo ammo that day). Oh boy he was not happy...

You're chosing to overlook the fact that your buddy didn't know you were about to shoot close to his head, and thus scared him. Since VBS2 has no way of determining wether or not you know your buddy is about to fire his weapon close to you, you will end up getting suppressed even if you're 100% aware of it and prepared. How realistic is that?

Coulumn: Except, VBS2 isn't a sim. A simulation is something like Steel Beasts, DCS, etc.

[sqb-sma 66]

You're chosing to overlook the fact that your buddy didn't know you were about to shoot close to his head, and thus scared him. Since VBS2 has no way of determining wether or not you know your buddy is about to fire his weapon close to you, you will end up getting suppressed even if you're 100% aware of it and prepared. How realistic is that?

Coulumn: Except, VBS2 isn't a sim. A simulation is something like Steel Beasts, DCS, etc.

Very realistic. No, seriously. Have you ever been in a locked car but known somebody was about to unlock it? Even though it's not a loud sound, the fact that you know it's coming makes the actual "click" quite a fright.

Now imagine that click is loud enough to literally blow out your eardrum. No matter how prepared you are, it's going to shock you and probably put you into some extreme pain.

[purepassion 22]

Please keep the discussion on the topic of a suppression mechanic in Arma 3. This is not the place to discuss what's a sim and what isn't or to get lost in personal arguments. Thank you! :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

VBS is a training tool - it is at it's commercial nature a collection of commissioned features & assets. So if X feature is in it, it's there because some customer ordered and paid for it. It then gets analysed, abstracted and implemented.

TBH there's quite a bunch of things i'd like to order for A3 ;)

[scrim 1]

Very realistic. No, seriously. Have you ever been in a locked car but known somebody was about to unlock it? Even though it's not a loud sound, the fact that you know it's coming makes the actual "click" quite a fright.

Now imagine that click is loud enough to literally blow out your eardrum. No matter how prepared you are, it's going to shock you and probably put you into some extreme pain.

I suppose that would apply if you were a 3rd world, untrained militia fighter, because by that logic things like overhead fire, high-low etc. wouldn't work, since you'd just suppress your own guys more than the enemy.

[zooloo75 833]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161738-Fire-Fight-Improvement-System

...And here is the answer! :o

Shameless advertisement FTW!

[ShotgunSheamuS 1]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161738-Fire-Fight-Improvement-System

...And here is the answer! :o

Shameless advertisement FTW!

Going to give it a try myself, sounds interesting from what I have read =) When will MP be supported, and also, will you be experimenting with how suppression affects human players??? There has been a good few suggestions here, so maybe you can play with those ideas and see what feedback you get.

[Reuben5150 2]

I am glad that BI has left this as an audio only affect rather than implementing something that would create hundreds of posts arguing about it, perhaps this is one feature best left to the modders.

[progamer 14]

Suppression for AI is needed to be more in depth because they do not react in a similar way to a person.

If you are using Extended Armor, then please do not complain about the apparent lack of suppression effects. If you do not use extended armor, you know those bullets will kill you, and you are scared of being killed because you will not respawn or you will be forced to move a great distance back to your location.

Games like Bf and cod have suppression because you shoot marshmallows, arma does not use marshmallow ammunition.

[Reuben5150 2]

Agreed on AI.

btw the effect in bf3/4 is used as a silly points generating system and probably the worst game mechanic I've ever seen in a shooter.

[-Coulum- 35]

I am glad that BI has left this as an audio only affect rather than implementing something that would create hundreds of posts arguing about it, perhaps this is one feature best left to the modders.

Unfortunately modders really lack the tools to mod in suppression efficiently. I can understand why people do/do not want it but either way, its not something that can be "solved" by modders.

AI need better reaction to incomming fire no doubt, both on an individual level (duck down and hide) and squad level (don't advance when the enemy has fire superiority).

If you are using Extended Armor, then please do not complain about the apparent lack of suppression effects. If you do not use extended armor, you know those bullets will kill you, and you are scared of being killed because you will not respawn or you will be forced to move a great distance back to your location.

Games like Bf and cod have suppression because you shoot marshmallows, arma does not use marshmallow ammunition.

But unfortunately for some even the fear of zero respawn and no armour isn't the enough (Ie. for me). Even having to wait a couple days till the next game doesn't compare to real life consequence of being dead or crippled. This is why some people push for suppression effects that are a bit more "intrusive". They want to be forced to act more realistically. I can definitely see why some would not like this, but, on the other hand it I don't think it is correct to say the effect is for unrealistic intentions.

Whether marshmellows or pixels of death, they still aren't going to force a reaction out of you like real lead. Even "suppression effects" can't, though they might force slightly more realistic reactions from players.

Does cod even have suppression effects?

Edited October 30, 2013 by -Coulum-

[Reuben5150 2]

Why should everyone be forced to react in one way or another by the game, it's more realistic IMO to have freedom of choice, because in reality you do.

AFAIK no suppression in cod, that would be far too complex for the players to deal with.

[PN11A 2]

Why should everyone be forced to react in one way or another by the game, it's more realistic IMO to have freedom of choice, because in reality you do.

AFAIK no suppression in cod, that would be far too complex for the players to deal with.

In addition to that everyone reacts differently.

[metalcraze 290]

Why should everyone be forced to react in one way or another by the game, it's more realistic IMO to have freedom of choice, because in reality you do.

Nobody can control the stress enough to keep sniping everybody with ease under .50 cal fire. But of course in ArmA3 it's not the case. You are talking about a freedom of choice yet the choice is always the same - keep sniping, unless it kills you you are 100% safe.

And in 'reality' (since you bring it up) suppression fire is real.

In ArmA3 killing anyone is as easy as putting a red dot over him and hitting LMB because unlike in 'reality' ArmA3 has no realistic ballistics, only a bullet drop. At least suppression fire would make the game a lot less casual.

Edited October 31, 2013 by metalcraze

[PN11A 2]

Nobody can control the stress enough to keep sniping everybody with ease under .50 cal fire.

And in 'reality' (since you bring it up) suppression fire is real.

Point or area? If you start getting shot at with a 50 and your a sniper you went wrong somewhere ;)

[metalcraze 290]

Yeah but in ArmA3 if I'm not getting hit that means the dude most likely blindly fires into the general area or is a very bad shot or simply has a worse and a shorter gun and a lower magnification scope than me.

If I have a better gun producing less bullet drop all it will take for me is pointing at him and shooting.

Have you asked yourself why everybody prefers to run around with sniper rifles whenever possible? The issue plaguing vanilla since OFP mind you.

In reality nobody can hit a guy 400m-500m away as effortless as you can in ArmA3 so if we can't have humidity, rain and wind affecting bullet curve at least there should be a suppressive fire to make combat not a dull shooting gallery.

Edited October 31, 2013 by metalcraze

[PN11A 2]

Yeah but in ArmA3 if I'm not getting hit that means the dude most likely blindly fires into the general area or is a very bad shot or simply has a worse and a shorter gun and a lower magnification scope than me.

Here is my take on suppression. It is a crucial part of the basics of infantry combat you cannot have maneuver without a supporting base of fire. A supporting base of fire cannot do their job without being able to suppress the enemy. That said this is a video game and the way we play this game is not the same as if it were real life no matter what you think you still know you are going somewhere to shoot someone. Opfor knows you are coming(pvp). This is also part of the reason people say "real world tactics don't work" because of the detachment from reality that comes from this being a game. Forcing suppression on someone is like forcing bad physical fitness, or reducing reaction speed. You can induce the same stress of being suppressed without taking the control away from the player. When you remove the players ability to control himself you instantly take away the fun and he becomes a puppet following the trail you prescribe for him. Also if your playing pvp and you are suppressing someone and they can still shoot you, you aren't doing a very good job of suppression and your moving too slow for your flank maneuver. That moment you gain fire superiority is the moment when you have them pinned and your next shot will end them its not just shooting in the air in their area.

[progamer 14]

Yeah but in ArmA3 if I'm not getting hit that means the dude most likely blindly fires into the general area or is a very bad shot or simply has a worse and a shorter gun and a lower magnification scope than me.

If I have a better gun producing less bullet drop all it will take for me is pointing at him and shooting.

Have you asked yourself why everybody prefers to run around with sniper rifles whenever possible? The issue plaguing vanilla since OFP mind you.

In reality nobody can hit a guy 400m-500m away as effortless as you can in ArmA3 so if we can't have humidity, rain and wind affecting bullet curve at least there should be a suppressive fire to make combat not a dull shooting gallery.

Those things you mention would be a better idea then some forced suppression system.

[roshnak 41]

Here is my take on suppression. It is a crucial part of the basics of infantry combat you cannot have maneuver without a supporting base of fire. A supporting base of fire cannot do their job without being able to suppress the enemy. That said this is a video game and the way we play this game is not the same as if it were real life no matter what you think you still know you are going somewhere to shoot someone. Opfor knows you are coming(pvp). This is also part of the reason people say "real world tactics don't work" because of the detachment from reality that comes from this being a game. Forcing suppression on someone is like forcing bad physical fitness, or reducing reaction speed. You can induce the same stress of being suppressed without taking the control away from the player. When you remove the players ability to control himself you instantly take away the fun and he becomes a puppet following the trail you prescribe for him. Also if your playing pvp and you are suppressing someone and they can still shoot you, you aren't doing a very good job of suppression and your moving too slow for your flank maneuver. That moment you gain fire superiority is the moment when you have them pinned and your next shot will end them its not just shooting in the air in their area.

This is a good post.

[Smurf 12]

Why should everyone be forced to react in one way or another by the game, it's more realistic IMO to have freedom of choice, because in reality you do.

AFAIK no suppression in cod, that would be far too complex for the players to deal with.

Yep, just like COD, Counter Strike and likes. 5.56 zipping past your head and you looking for that lucky single Deagle shot, because that is how humans react to incoming fast objects moving in their direction.

If you twitch on one of those "think fast" moments, imagine what it would be when your life is on the line. Sure as hell isn't keep it cool and keep sniping.

(just because it's right under the 100kb limit :icon_razz:)

Everybody is different my ass.

What are those other silly sim-like games are trying to do with their supression effects? :j:

Oh, and yeah: