SUGGESTION: Auto lower weapon when against walls

[4 IN 1 0]

I don't think this is related to the original issue - the lack of a low-ready state may be a tactical issue but it's not the reason for an auto-lower script. The soldier in your picture uses a long rifle, not a short CQB weapon - the depicted state wouldn't help much in a tight space. (Just to be clear: I'm not against having a low-ready state, I just don't think it's related here.)

I'm against the game controlling the fighting stance automatically because if it fails it's going to kill the player. I don't want the game to think for me - having the ability to choose a short(er) weapon or having the shortcut key to lower it when needed should be enough.

I will go as far as to agree with you until auto lowering part, where it should be more of a natural reaction as in real life, and I will go further saying that the problem of the mod is the slight delay between detecting obstruction and trigger the lowering/rasing weapon script, and I will go even further and say that removing collision model of the rifle is cheating IF auto lowering without too much delay is done engine side already.

[metalcraze 290]

I don't think this is related to the original issue - the lack of a low-ready state may be a tactical issue but it's not the reason for an auto-lower script. The soldier in your picture uses a long rifle, not a short CQB weapon - the depicted state wouldn't help much in a tight space. (Just to be clear: I'm not against having a low-ready state, I just don't think it's related here.)

I'm against the game controlling the fighting stance automatically because if it fails it's going to kill the player. I don't want the game to think for me - having the ability to choose a short(er) weapon or having the shortcut key to lower it when needed should be enough.

Low-ready animation is what's needed to represent weapon auto-lowering properly when moving through tight spaces is what I mean.

I'm against the game controlling the fighting stance automatically because if it fails it's going to kill the player.

Didn't kill in SWAT4. Would you prefer being stuck in doorways or your weapon clipping through walls instead?

[Gorbachev 1]

The reason this worked in SWAT4 is because the first person view was a floating set of arms and a gun. In ArmA your viewpoint is actually attached to the skeleton of your body. This is not the only reason SWAT4 was able to do this fluidly.

The Unreal Engine (2, 2.5? I forget) that SWAT4 was made on allows detection of walls much easier. In ArmA, walls are meshes. Everything is meshes. There are no "walls" in a typical FPShooter sense. Ala Quake 1-4 (CoD to this day is based heavily upon Quake), Unreal Engine, so on so forth.

What this means is that the collision object of any mesh is not always a perfect match for that mesh. It is usually a much simpler shape. This would lead to much frustration as seen in that aforementioned addon for Arma3 where the weapon will lower when you cannot see what is causing it to lower. While the collision for a "wall" in other engines is always the same shape as what you see. Of course, the map is usually littered with meshes to add variety but they're usually dumpsters, burnt cars, trash cans, so on. Simple things, not entire buildings.

So the series-old problem of "Excuse me enemy, while I dislodge my barrel from this stairwell railing so I can shoot you." is not as easily solved as any of us hope. I'd settle for guns having no collision quite happily, though.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Gorbachev

[Wolfstriked 11]

Norrin's addon has issues making it unusable because he uses a relaxed idle stance with the weapon lowered in one hand instead of 'low-ready' stance which simply does not exist in the game (although jogging animation has low-ready weapon). This causes some annoying issues with transitions between said idle and ready states which cause camera to tremble a bit and also not fast enough. Some thin objects also cause issues with it.

We need a BIS solution for this with proper objects being included into lowering and a proper low-ready animation.

The new VBS2 movement system BISim develops has good examples of low-ready anims.

Short version - we need this:

http://www.tactical.dk/images/lowready.jpg http://www.tactical.dk/images/hiready.jpg

Low ready is in game as you point out Metal.What I think would make this game look and feel better though is if it went back to the lowered weapon A2 movement.Its already in game as evidenced by moving around with weapon lowered.This IMO should be standard movement and then the change combat pace to what A3 has as normal movement.The actual combat pace in A3 where you run with weapon raised but at lower speed could be just actually running with optics up.....its the same speed anyway and you have better situational awareness.So lowered weapon movement as the standard and if you want to go into combat pace,with its better more fluid movements you press the combat pace key(but its the normal movement we have in A3 now).

To further it the lowered weapon stance could have a bit less stamina reduction.This way you can be jogging for awhile and know that you can hit extra sprint for evasive maneuvers if needed.Right now the normal movement speeds cause you to be winded and sprinting is short lived.

What I really love in A3 is that movement uphill/level/downhill all have varying stamina reduction stats.

[Jex 1]

I don't think this is related to the original issue - the lack of a low-ready state may be a tactical issue but it's not the reason for an auto-lower script. The soldier in your picture uses a long rifle, not a short CQB weapon - the depicted state wouldn't help much in a tight space. (Just to be clear: I'm not against having a low-ready state, I just don't think it's related here.)

I'm against the game controlling the fighting stance automatically because if it fails it's going to kill the player. I don't want the game to think for me - having the ability to choose a short(er) weapon or having the shortcut key to lower it when needed should be enough.

Did you watch the video of the vietcong video I posted? It isn't going to Fail - that's like arguing against having a change in stance because it might fail one day and get you killed. Is this the best argument anyone can come up with for not having this in the game?

Sounds to me like some people "just don't want it in" - the current system is clunky and unrealistic and is not warranted in a game like this.

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

The reason this worked in SWAT4 is because the first person view was a floating set of arms and a gun. In ArmA your viewpoint is actually attached to the skeleton of your body. This is not the only reason SWAT4 was able to do this fluidly.

The Unreal Engine (2, 2.5? I forget) that SWAT4 was made on allows detection of walls much easier. In ArmA, walls are meshes. Everything is meshes. There are no "walls" in a typical FPShooter sense. Ala Quake 1-4 (CoD to this day is based heavily upon Quake), Unreal Engine, so on so forth.

What this means is that the collision object of any mesh is not always a perfect match for that mesh. It is usually a much simpler shape. This would lead to much frustration as seen in that aforementioned addon for Arma3 where the weapon will lower when you cannot see what is causing it to lower. While the collision for a "wall" in other engines is always the same shape as what you see. Of course, the map is usually littered with meshes to add variety but they're usually dumpsters, burnt cars, trash cans, so on. Simple things, not entire buildings.

So the series-old problem of "Excuse me enemy, while I dislodge my barrel from this stairwell railing so I can shoot you." is not as easily solved as any of us hope. I'd settle for guns having no collision quite happily, though.

Finally a decent argument against the idea and well explained - thanks :)

If that is going to be an issue, and I can see that being a really frustrating one if it works that way, then perhaps a lower rifle key - hold it down, rifle lowers - let go, rifle springs back up.

[2nd ranger 282]

That would be a decent solution if they were somehow able to fix the clunkiness of the current lower action (which I think is unlikely as it would probably mean overhauling the whole animation system to make the entire thing less clunky). It could work in the same way as leaning - press and hold to lower the weapon, double tap the key to keep it lowered. Holding the key would keep the player in a 'ready' stance while just lowering or retracting the weapon slightly, double-tapping would put the player in the 'safe' position.

However I don't think that's very intuitive, particularly when incorporating leaning into the movement. Trying to lean out of a doorway is where this problem occurs the most. So with the above implementation you'd have to go into the lean and then hold down the lower key (or vice versa), then release the key as your view clears the corner, and your weapon is pointing outside. Essentially you're having to hit an extra keypress for something that in real life you could do in one movement.

If I thought the animation system could handle automatic weapon lowering in a smooth and inobtrusive way, I'd be all for it. But I don't think it can, and any workaround would make the process itself ungainly and unnecessarily complex.

[Sneakson 1]

I really think you should draw back your weapon or lower/raise it when you encounter a wall. I like how it works in Crysis and Far Cry 3 a lot and it really lets you press up against walls instead of getting stuck with your barrel against a door like it is now.

[dmarkwick 261]

If that is going to be an issue, and I can see that being a really frustrating one if it works that way, then perhaps a lower rifle key - hold it down, rifle lowers - let go, rifle springs back up.

This ability is already present via settings. Only difference would be a key press not a key hold/release.

[Jex 1]

I hate the idea of having to press a key to do something so mundane - every other game that models this (working fine I might add) does not have you pressing keys and fumbling around with the keyboard - things like this need to be fluid

[aseliot 2]

I agree, ATM i fucking hate navigating through close quarters because i get stuck in all(okay sometimes) the doorways when i am just trying to move normally. I get the whole realistic movement stuff but you should be able to just turn around your axis normally while standing in an doorway and not get interupted. Just having your gun point up in those occassions might help there. Not mention the overall clunky movement indoors, oops i just did.

[dmarkwick 261]

I think there should be some sort of "soft collision" implemented, so the collision object is *slightly* smaller than the view object in order to simulate working your body through & around in ways you cannot because of the limitations of game engine. Also some amount of slide for collision, so you slide along collisions not clunk up against them.

[giorgygr 61]

Now bring this conversation to a cheap-nice PvP match when you die->respawn->die and while you lean on the corner in msec..your weapon LOWERS!!! ..no thank you chaps :D

[accapella 1]

Now bring this conversation to a cheap-nice PvP match when you die->respawn->die and while you lean on the corner in msec..your weapon LOWERS!!! ..no thank you chaps :D

Your weapon should only lower if you're aiming at a wall.