My thoughts on Holographic optics

[GringrBrezns 1]

Hey, just registered today, I wanted to post my thoughts on the EOTech XPS-3's in-game reticule.

Basically I'm a fanboy for HWS and I think the tech is incredible. Basically my question is if it would be possible to simulate a true holographic sight more accurately (sort of).

See these images taken of the reticule of my EOTech 552. You'll notice the entire image is out of focus except for the reticule, because my lens has a shallow depth of field and because the reticule is a hologram it's projected into the distance instead of being 'physically inside' of the sight housing.

But the key point is, in the second image I move the camera about a foot closer and the reticule size relative to the screen stays the same.

http://puu.sh/2odvY (333 kB)

http://puu.sh/2odvW (319 kB)

The point is that I think it would be neat to consider try to have the reticule for the in-game EOTech HWS remain the same size relative to the screen whether zoomed in or out. Much like how the HUD icons (squad markers and etc) stay the same size regardless of distance from the player.

The counter point is that many have said the in-game zoom is more like a digital zoom than an optical one, in respect that it isn't meant to be an actual zoom, but more of an enhance to simulate the actual level of detail a human would be able to pick up on. BUT I just think that it would be a really unique and neat detail to add if possible, to set the HWS apart from the other reflex optics.

I know it's not really that big of a deal but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the idea.

[KingChubbles 1]

The fact that, like you said, it isn't an optical zoom but a "focusing" of sorts makes me not want this implemented. That would give the effect of the character leaning more towards the optic, which is not what he's is doing at all.

[derk yall 0]

/delete

Edited March 26, 2013 by Derk Yall

[GringrBrezns 1]

Further thought on the matter has decided for me that the ingame zoom is really a pull in.

This jumbo screenshot compares a digital zoom in photoshop with actual ingame zoom on the right. Other than the loss of quality and a slight aim shift, they're just about identical.

http://puu.sh/2ogJ1

What this means is that it still could be implemented in the actual sense as the ingame zoom would still increase it's the reticules's size via magnification rather than actual distance change, but because the optics distance from the players eye never really changes noticeably while the crosshair is visible, it wouldn't ever be put to any real use.

Edited March 26, 2013 by GringrBrezns

[instagoat 133]

The distance between optic and eye doesn´t change when zooming. The size of the reticle is dependent on magnification, not position. Otherwise magnifiers wouldn´t work (the only thing that does stay the same in a holographic optic is the apparent thickness of the crosshair and dot size, so the ring should actually get bigger when zooming in, but the lines and the dot should get thinner.)

However correctly simulating a holographic optic in all facettes is a little too much to ask. That we have realistic parrallax (including far-off-bore parrallax error, which most other games don´t simulate) now alone is a godsend, given for how long people´ve been asking for it.

I´d rather have brightness adjustments and IR modes for the sights and manually controllable NV and IR gain/contrast/aperture.

[Stuffy 1]

The distance between optic and eye doesn´t change when zooming. The size of the reticle is dependent on magnification, not position. Otherwise magnifiers wouldn´t work (the only thing that does stay the same in a holographic optic is the apparent thickness of the crosshair and dot size, so the ring should actually get bigger when zooming in, but the lines and the dot should get thinner.)

However correctly simulating a holographic optic in all facettes is a little too much to ask. That we have realistic parrallax (including far-off-bore parrallax error, which most other games don´t simulate) now alone is a godsend, given for how long people´ve been asking for it.

I´d rather have brightness adjustments and IR modes for the sights and manually controllable NV and IR gain/contrast/aperture.

I agree. They should really focus on things that matter in the gameplay. It's a good idea for a mod tho.

[GringrBrezns 1]

The distance between optic and eye doesn´t change when zooming. The size of the reticle is dependent on magnification, not position. Otherwise magnifiers wouldn´t work (the only thing that does stay the same in a holographic optic is the apparent thickness of the crosshair and dot size, so the ring should actually get bigger when zooming in, but the lines and the dot should get thinner.)

However correctly simulating a holographic optic in all facettes is a little too much to ask. That we have realistic parrallax (including far-off-bore parrallax error, which most other games don´t simulate) now alone is a godsend, given for how long people´ve been asking for it.

I´d rather have brightness adjustments and IR modes for the sights and manually controllable NV and IR gain/contrast/aperture.

Yes, I've re-evaluated my zoom thoughts. And yes, now that you've mentioned it the reticule is still larger through an Aimpoint 3xmag, but "size dependent on magnification" is sort of a misnomer in that position, aka a change in distance to/from the optic will have it the same size relative to your eye, while magnification increases the size relative to your eye. I'm away from my optics for the rest of the week and can't confirm the A.65 becoming larger while the lines remain the same but that seems counter-intuitive. I know holograms are complex but it doesn't seem plausible to have what is still a projected image grow larger to the eye as a whole but retain the same line thickness relative to the eye's perception.

And I don't know complicated simulating a holographic sight would be but I think we've all agreed it's not needed in its current application, and for the time being I'm perfectly happy with just parallax.

As for adjusting the brightness of optics or NV, I feel like that might be pushing it. If it were implemented as "NV/Optics auto = on" or "NV/Optics auto = off" where auto would present them as-is presently and auto off would allow you to bring up different options as a menu, maybe, but I know I'd hardly use it.

[fraczek 4]

After giving it a thought, I have to agree with OP (although I am not sure if implemented wouldn't give us a headache upon zooming) - the reticule should stay the same (small) size even when zoomed. Why? Not because of RL optics (where it does), but because of game mechanics.

What the "zoom in" feature aproximates from RL is the way eye works - retina has a low resolution wide field of view, with a very high resolution narrow field of view spot in the middle. Brain aproximates a same resolution wide field of view image from that by constantly scanning the whole eyebulb around and combining the images together.

Though of course you can "focus" your perception on some object, not scanning around so much, like reading this text word by word carefuly. If the ingame zoom aproximates that (focusing your perception), it would make sense for the holo sight to remain same size even if zoomed in. Because when focused (zoomed ingame), you just give more attention to details in a smaller cone of view.

And why from gameplay perspective? Well, because even though you are supposedly giving more attention to detail in a small spot, but now the reticule is obscuring much more of that spot. That's contrary to what you are trying to do - focus your perception on a tighter spot, noticing more detail in that spot but not giving attention to your surroundings as much (ingame, narrow field of view).

Discussion about digital zoom is completely off - digital or optical, it does not matter - it's the FOV change that matters and is the same in both. And none of that has any to do with eye and brain.

Of course, given that the way they do paralax compensated reticule is probably not by drawing the reticule at infinity (or factory zeroed distance, like 300m for the EOTech IIRC), but probably some clever programmer tricks just moving the texture of the dot around (if it's indeed drawn at its "real" optical distance - that would be a major feat in engine!) according to how the sight moves around in relation to center of view, I don't think that keeping the reticule same sized upon zooming is in any way feasible engine wise...

Edited March 26, 2013 by fraczek

[jgbtl292 0]

your eyes can handy three difference points at the same same time. the zoom simulate the focuse of one point.

fisheye sight on a reddot ist not real. you look with 2 eyes an a reddot ;)

only a little transparency and blurry 40% from weapon and sight in the focus mode its the way. the left eye see more than the right thats give a little blurry and transparency ;)

[GringrBrezns 1]

fisheye sight on a reddot ist not real. you look with 2 eyes an a reddot ;)

Fisheye? I get your first point about 3 focuses, that makes good sense. But you might want to elaborate on the fish eye. Do you mean you keep both eyes open?

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

holographic sights like the EOTech have no magnification. the "lenses" are nothing more than flat panes of glass. the reticle it self is focused to infinity, but projected to 50 meters. the weapon and optic/sight should be out of focus when aiming. as for aimpoint/reddot sights, they do have a concave piece of glass that the laser/led diode reflects off and projects the point of aim in the distance. unlike a holographic sight, the aimpoints/reddots are not focused to infinity.