Chopper default control scheme

[whisper 0]

Heya,

I'm running A3 currently with a bunch of people coming from other horizons.

We're playing mainly coop missions, OFP like, because ArmA3 is what reminds me the most of OFP since Armed Assault (and it feels so good, tbh)

One thing striked me yesterday : nobody trying to fly chopper is successfull when using the default control scheme. They are unable to make even 1 single usefull chopper run. And it's not because the flight model is complex and chopper take hours to master. No. It's because the controls are useless.

Default controls let you control the collective, rudder, and something BI called "Turn Right/Left", which is a strange mix of cyclic right/left, rudder, and... well, I don't know what exactly :)

I've changed the controls to map real life chopper controls, aka cyclic (on mouse), collective (W-S keys) and rudder (A-D keys). It changed everything, made the chopper flyable and simply made all work. Mind you, I'm on OFP since demo, I'm pretty used to their flight model, so the learning phase is absent :)

But that worked with everyone I talked to.

Questions :

* Do YOU keep the default chopper controls scheme and be successfull with them? Do you know people using default control scheme?

* Do you think changing default control to real life control would be more beneficial for the game?

I've made a ticket about this : http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5683 . Upvote / Downvote as wished :)

Whis'

[deepfried 1]

Well, the whole helo fight model will change to the one in Take on Helicopters for the release version of Arma 3, so this may be a little redundant. Though having sensible default control schemes is always a good idea of course, I don't think many people will be piloting with mouse and keyboard once we have the ToH FM.

[swiftn7 1]

Heya,

I'm running A3 currently with a bunch of people coming from other horizons.

We're playing mainly coop missions, OFP like, because ArmA3 is what reminds me the most of OFP since Armed Assault (and it feels so good, tbh)

One thing striked me yesterday : nobody trying to fly chopper is successfull when using the default control scheme. They are unable to make even 1 single usefull chopper run. And it's not because the flight model is complex and chopper take hours to master. No. It's because the controls are useless.

Default controls let you control the collective, rudder, and something BI called "Turn Right/Left", which is a strange mix of cyclic right/left, rudder, and... well, I don't know what exactly :)

I've changed the controls to map real life chopper controls, aka cyclic (on mouse), collective (W-S keys) and rudder (A-D keys). It changed everything, made the chopper flyable and simply made all work. Mind you, I'm on OFP since demo, I'm pretty used to their flight model, so the learning phase is absent :)

But that worked with everyone I talked to.

Questions :

* Do YOU keep the default chopper controls scheme and be successfull with them? Do you know people using default control scheme?

* Do you think changing default control to real life control would be more beneficial for the game?

I've made a ticket about this : http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5683 . Upvote / Downvote as wished :)

Whis'

I have always been using the default controls and there was no problem ever. And it is like in real life:

Cyclic for the rotor head, which determines the direction (forwards, backwards or sideways)

Pitch (=collective) for climb and descend

Rudder/Pedals for the Anti-Torque/Tail Rotor

The only thing that is not simulated is the engine torque/turbine power control. I think that's for keeping it easy, and as there are also automated systems nowadays that should be OK.

I myself would love to fly with an X52 Pro, if I had one :)

SwiftN7

[whisper 0]

I have always been using the default controls and there was no problem ever. And it is like in real life:

Cyclic for the rotor head, which determines the direction (forwards, backwards or sideways)

Pitch (=collective) for climb and descend

Rudder/Pedals for the Anti-Torque/Tail Rotor

The only thing that is not simulated is the engine torque/turbine power control. I think that's for keeping it easy, and as there are also automated systems nowadays that should be OK.

I myself would love to fly with an X52 Pro, if I had one :)

SwiftN7

It is NOT like in real life, sorry.

mouse left/right is not bound to cyclic left/right, but turn left/right. Check the keybindings options, you'll see the cyclic left/right is not what you are using when using default controls

Edited March 22, 2013 by whisper

[Zickefoose 1]

!? I only tried flying once... I was doing barrel rolls and crap. I thought it was extra super easy compared to other games. I better fly some more to see if this wasnt just a fluke. But, im pretty sure it was cake.

[swiftn7 1]

It is NOT like in real life, sorry.

mouse left/right is not bound to cyclic left/right, but turn left/right. Check the keybindings options, you'll see the cyclic left/right is not what you are using when using default controls

I cannot look right now but I am quite sure the cyclic is bound to WASD. The mouse control is kind of an alternative, it combines nick and yaw, not cyclic. You will notice that when you are hovering. When you turn the mouse left/right the helo will turn around its vertical axis. Strafing left/right without forward or backward movement has to be done with cyclic.

I will check that later.

[whisper 0]

I cannot look right now but I am quite sure the cyclic is bound to WASD. The mouse control is kind of an alternative, it combines nick and yaw, not cyclic. You will notice that when you are hovering. When you turn the mouse left/right the helo will turn around its vertical axis. Strafing left/right without forward or backward movement has to be done with cyclic.

I will check that later.

ah, cyclic on keys. That may be, tbh, but I don't think so as I don't remember unbinding these from cyclic when binding the to collective and rudder (cause these are the keys I use for collective and rudder ;) ). Gonna check also tonight.

@Zickfoose : maybe that's just me then, that's why I posted, to get feedback :) But for me, I control and achieve things like fast landing faaaar easier with controls matching true chopper controls. And probably doing barrel rolls and such is made easier with functions like their "turn" function. But for mission effective flying (ie, take off fast, fly NOE, land super fast and precise), I found the default controls super clunky

[dmarkwick 261]

It seems to me that cyclic is on WASD, and the mouse has a blend of cyclic + rudder depending on speed. Hovering, WASD leans the helo in that direction while the mouse tends to rotate rather than lean.

[swiftn7 1]

ah, cyclic on keys. That may be, tbh, but I don't think so as I don't remember unbinding these from cyclic when binding the to collective and rudder (cause these are the keys I use for collective and rudder ;) ). Gonna check also tonight.

@Zickfoose : maybe that's just me then, that's why I posted, to get feedback :) But for me, I control and achieve things like fast landing faaaar easier with controls matching true chopper controls. And probably doing barrel rolls and such is made easier with functions like their "turn" function. But for mission effective flying (ie, take off fast, fly NOE, land super fast and precise), I found the default controls super clunky

Perhaps you can give me an answer in return, as I haven't been flying much in Arma 3 up to now. Is the mouse control still self centering so that you have to reset the mouse and re-input over and over again? That was the main reason for me to not control the helos via mouse...

[Zickefoose 1]

The "flying" is easier to me than most games. I did not try to land often though. However, engaging enemies is clicking pretty good for me. I'll have to do a few combat drop simulations to see how the controls handle that. I am not spending much time learning the choppers though. My understanding is that I will just have to re-learn it all once they include the full flight model. I am also more of a scout/shooter than someone that transports.

[whisper 0]

Perhaps you can give me an answer in return, as I haven't been flying much in Arma 3 up to now. Is the mouse control still self centering so that you have to reset the mouse and re-input over and over again? That was the main reason for me to not control the helos via mouse...

This is not changed. You have to repeatedly smash your mouse downward for a sustained turn :)

So what I get now, is that my issue is essentially due to my usage of mouse. Keyboard default settings is matching IRL chopper controls, but not the mouse.

[swiftn7 1]

The "flying" is easier to me than most games. I did not try to land often though. However, engaging enemies is clicking pretty good for me. I'll have to do a few combat drop simulations to see how the controls handle that. I am not spending much time learning the choppers though. My understanding is that I will just have to re-learn it all once they include the full flight model. I am also more of a scout/shooter than someone that transports.

Just man a gunner seat in an Attack Helo and enjoy your shooting experience :) If you have a good pilot sitting behind you, it's THE way to dominate the battlefield.

---------- Post added at 14:25 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------

This is not changed. You have to repeatedly smash your mouse downward for a sustained turn :)

So what I get now, is that my issue is essentially due to my usage of mouse. Keyboard default settings is matching IRL chopper controls, but not the mouse.

I hope this will change upon the implementation of the TOH control scheme...

[wildone_106 10]

The collective is weird, when I decrease it generally nothing happens for a LONGGGG time, its only when I slow down/pulling back hard does it start to take effect. But when I reduce the collective I expect it to go DOWN immediatly...thats how it is in real life no? and every other chopper sim I've flown. So cant wait for this to change.

[SmallBlackSheep 0]

I've changed the controls to map real life chopper controls, aka cyclic (on mouse), collective (W-S keys) and rudder (A-D keys). It changed everything, made the chopper flyable and simply made all work.

this. thx for making a ticket for it.

[Tonci87 163]

The ToH FM is just so much more enjoyable than what we currently have in A3

[SPARTdAN 10]

I was making do with the default control scheme OP, but following your post I've just tried out your controls and they are a lot better thank you.

[libben 1]

what is toh fm?

I played the demo of toh 1 day ago, and found the controlls pretty much the same, except that you had some startup sequences, and those I understood right away without any training, well 1 click here and there and of you goo. And you understood them. Not like you had to train massive amount of time to understand it.

[Fuse 1]

Once I fixed E being double-bound I found helicopters some-what enjoyable but overly simplistic. I'm not a pilot, but I'm betting you can't "fall with style" in an inverted helicopter. I've certainly never seen someone barrel roll a chopper, even RC, when they're like 30' off the ground.

I do like the compromise on the mouse though. I use WASD when I need to maneuver in more helicopter-like ways (landings, attack runs), but I find the combined controls on the mouse handy for the basic maneuvering on the way to an objective.

[striderjg 1]

what is toh fm?

I played the demo of toh 1 day ago, and found the controlls pretty much the same, except that you had some startup sequences, and those I understood right away without any training, well 1 click here and there and of you goo. And you understood them. Not like you had to train massive amount of time to understand it.

You sure you were playing the demo for take on helicopters? The Flight model is very very different. I really have only played on expert so I can't say how much they simplify the dynamics in easier diffs but if you flew on expert or Vet and it felt the same to you as A2/A3.... wow. The controls are mapped the same way though, that is true. I'd suggest trying the demo out a little more and playing with the difficulty settings. and seeing if you still feel the FM's are the same:) OT for this thread though so I'm out:)

[morthawt 0]

Well, the whole helo fight model will change to the one in Take on Helicopters for the release version of Arma 3, so this may be a little redundant. Though having sensible default control schemes is always a good idea of course, I don't think many people will be piloting with mouse and keyboard once we have the ToH FM.

Can you explain what you are referring to? I am confused "Take on helicopters" and people not bothering with mouse and keyboard??

[nodunit 397]

Can you explain what you are referring to? I am confused "Take on helicopters" and people not bothering with mouse and keyboard??

Take on helicopters is a spin off game from Arma 2 on Steam. It focused on helicopters on brought a new flight model which would change based on difficulty. Things such as wind pushing the aircraft, requiring the player to use the pedals to fight the torque that would make the helicopter spin whereas standard A2 you only use toqrue to turn versus keeping yourself aligned.

Rotor disks effecting one another as well as the aircraft, if you pull the collective up the helicopter will bank away from the tail rotor, reverse for down, requiring more yaw based on collective %. There are many other things, these are just the basics, on higher difficulties the aircraft would be so unruly that if you take your hand from the cyclic and leave it, the aircraft will spin or outright throw itself around on its own whim...which is actually accurate.

Helicopters WANT to crash, the pilot has to convince them to remain in the air.

Edited March 24, 2013 by NodUnit

[whisper 0]

I was making do with the default control scheme OP, but following your post I've just tried out your controls and they are a lot better thank you.

That's exactly what I'm after : the default control schemes makes flying unnecessarily less easy, when simply changing them makes it better for flying.

[fraczek 4]

Helicopters WANT to crash, the pilot has to convince them to remain in the air.

Yep, helicopters do not fly, they beat the air into submission :)