Vegetation Texture Pop-Ups Still Ugly

[kremator 1064]

We have never had a reasonable answer from the devs about how they have identified the issue, and how they intend to rectify it. It is a real atmosphere killer if I turn around only to see a tree/bush change LOD. WHY can't all the trees/bushes around me (50m say) already be in their highest LOD state?

Flying over a terrain is just plain crazy. It's like a wave of LOD changing pushing out from me. I have an SSD, 3.8GHz processor, GTX570 OC'd version and plenty of RAM, so the system 'should' be fine.

[-Coulum- 35]

Its not only a problem of changing LODs its the fact that the LODs seem so damn different. One moment that bush is full and the next it looks like it has absolutely no leaves at all.

And to rub salt in the wound, there seems to be no performance boosts from having the LODs in their most basic globual form. Still get shitty fps even when the trees around me look like they were made with paper. I hear tonnes of talk of arma being one of the best games for its graphics, great view distance etc. but I refuse to agree with that when they have LOD problems like now. Until that is fixed only the screenshots of arma will look good enough.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Yeah Arma looks great with full Ultra settings and 12,000/12,000 view/object distance, but good luck playing with 25 fps lol

This whole LOD issue comes down to pure and simple optimization on behalf of the art and programming team. They need to make the LOD transitions look consistent across all levels but also be optimized for maximum performance and right now I just don't feel that they are. The whole flickering issue is in my top 3 of most annoying, game breaking issues with Arma of all time right now and I SERIOUSLY will be disappointed if it never gets fixed.

[Tonci87 163]

We have never had a reasonable answer from the devs about how they have identified the issue, and how they intend to rectify it. It is a real atmosphere killer if I turn around only to see a tree/bush change LOD. WHY can't all the trees/bushes around me (50m say) already be in their highest LOD state?

Flying over a terrain is just plain crazy. It's like a wave of LOD changing pushing out from me. I have an SSD, 3.8GHz processor, GTX570 OC'd version and plenty of RAM, so the system 'should' be fine.

That would kill your performance with Arma as it is now. So unless some Dev pushes the magic optimisation button this will not happen. I think the next Devblog will be about optimisation and how the engine works, we might get some more insight then.

[-Coulum- 35]

That would kill your performance with Arma as it is now.

Maybe this is a dumb question but: would it? The only reason I am not sure is because when LODs morph (for no good reason), I see no difference in fps. Ie

there is no fps change at all even though the LOD is increasing. my only thought is that maybe LODs are actually dependant on your fps and will change to keep your fps constant - but that seems weird.

Like I mentioned in my above post, sometimes I find my self in a field of paper trees, yet my fps is still abysmal.

Regardless, you're right that the next devblog will be interesting.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Maybe this is a dumb question but: would it? The only reason I am not sure is because when LODs morph (for no good reason), I see no difference in fps. Ie

there is no fps change at all even though the LOD is increasing. my only thought is that maybe LODs are actually dependant on your fps and will change to keep your fps constant - but that seems weird.

Like I mentioned in my above post, sometimes I find my self in a field of paper trees, yet my fps is still abysmal.

Regardless, you're right that the next devblog will be interesting.

Definitely not. I run with settings that give a near constant 60 fps, only dipping with heavy AI and lots of action, and I still get crazy flickering.

Whatever the reason is, it's BI's fault and they need to get on it. Oh and one more thing, I can assure you going from a sprite tree to a fully polygon and textured 3D tree WILL have a toll on performance. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

[kridian 33]

I think it's time to utilize a better LOD technology. :confused:

I see similar topics in the CryDev forums.*

[ric 1]

I just watched a video of the new island fromz made and all i could see was the pop-up vegetation...very distracting :( we had the same problem in cliffs of dover except it was pop-up buildings :( , i really hope that it does get fixed it really is an immersion killer

[grillob3 11]

I notice that from last weekend to now LODs are extremely bad! Must be last update. :(

Actually i just changed "object quality" to ultra and mostly the bad LODs are gone. so my extra 15-20 fps ;(

Edited June 20, 2013 by Grillob3

[afp 1]

We have never had a reasonable answer from the devs about how they have identified the issue, and how they intend to rectify it. It is a real atmosphere killer if I turn around only to see a tree/bush change LOD. WHY can't all the trees/bushes around me (50m say) already be in their highest LOD state?

Flying over a terrain is just plain crazy. It's like a wave of LOD changing pushing out from me. I have an SSD, 3.8GHz processor, GTX570 OC'd version and plenty of RAM, so the system 'should' be fine.

True, I personally belive it's a flaw in LOD algorithm, it is not ok to recalculate all textures, especially the ones in front of you, at the same distance, only when moving mouse left-right a bit. It's a matter of angles and distances that can improve things a lot. Since I found out that this occurs in other games too (not that visible anyway), I think it may come from DirectX or other low level graphic component. It can be from ArmA engine too, I'm not sure. If it is from DirectX, maybe some discussion with DirectX supoort guys may solve it....

I'm afraid this LOD flickering never been treated seriously, even if it ruins the game...

Edited June 20, 2013 by afp

[kremator 1064]

OK, let's get this straight, Arma3 is a game not a simulation, but seriously there needs to be MAJOR work on the LOD stuff. Rather than spending inordinate amounts of time, working on new weapon this, new weapon that etc, please fix the LOD stuff. IF it is an engine anomaly then please let us know how to minimise it.

I can't take the game seriously if when looking at a scene (turning around etc) about half the trees change their LOD in front of me!

[nikiforos 450]

I agree with you Kremator. This must be fixed or at least minimize the extent of the problem.

[maddogx 13]

The LOD flickering issue is really old now, possibly as old as Arma itself. It's also one of my personal bugbears.

Hopefully the devs will finally do something about it before Arma3 is released. Suma did say he wanted to rewrite the whole LOD switching system, but that was a while ago...

[nikiforos 450]

Really old problem but it seems that nothing has been done to solve the issue.

Quite disappointing I must say:(

[down8 30]

The whole flickering issue is in my top 3 of most annoying, game breaking issues with Arma

My top 1.

[Zorg_DK 10]

It's a shame BI didn't put time into implementing tesselation. I'm sure that would have provided 100% smooth LOD transitions on vegetation.

[tortuosit 485]

My top 1.

For me it's also under the top 1. Especially flying is an ugly experience very often.

Edited June 20, 2013 by tortuosit

[kremator 1064]

Suma did say he wanted to rewrite the whole LOD switching system, but that was a while ago...

Correct ... we haven't heard anything back on this matter from Suma. Yes, it will be a huge amount of work, but surely the fact that the community keep bringing it up means that a) it's not fixed nor ever has been b) it is important to them.

Yup to a) and b)

[doveman 7]

+1. This is a major bugbear for me too.

[Tonci87 163]

+1 For me as well, followed by Bipods and wind

[maddogx 13]

Is it just me, or has the LOD flickering practically disappeared in the new dev branch update (beta content)? Even with object details on standard, LODs seem stable. :eek:

It's almost too good to be true.

EDIT: There's still some flickering in Agia Marina, but overall it seems much better than before. Progress.

[lordprimate 159]

I cant tell everything flickers at 11fps..

[-Coulum- 35]

Yep its definitely better now. Still not perfect as I still sometimes notice bushes morphing but the morphs aren't as drastic and are usually far away. Plus simply rotating a few degrees doesn't seem to cause any trouble.

Thanks BIS, keep it up.

However those short brown bushes are still horrible. One second they are pretty much invisible, just a few barren twigs floating around floating around and the next they are full of leaves and obstruct vision.

[grillob3 11]

The LOD flickering issue is really old now, possibly as old as Arma itself. It's also one of my personal bugbears.

Hopefully the devs will finally do something about it before Arma3 is released. Suma did say he wanted to rewrite the whole LOD switching system, but that was a while ago...

I remember that!

SUMA where is you new LOD system??? ;)

Sorry! just got arma 3 beta and LODs are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYY better!!! Big thanks! now i can use "Object quality" on standard and no LODs!Now is like alpha on "ultra" but i get 15-20 more fps!!! Nice BIS!

Edited June 21, 2013 by Grillob3

[ric 1]

I cant tell everything flickers at 11fps..

LOL thnx for making me laugh :) I might have to fire up A3 to see what you guys are talking about :)