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lee1hy

BI must be provides the basic ANTI-TK system, not a script

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When one player has already killed a friendly unit, he turns to enemy side

This is not a good solution at all, considering that having an enemy unit present in your base might set off unwanted triggers that the mission maker intended for other purposes.

I too hate the cheaters/hackers pissing on our beloved game but it's a rather delicate issue to deal with. It's one that can't be sorted by wearing hockey gloves at the recording studio mixing table. :j:

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In my second example, i was already one step further. I said "neutral" side, under the precondition that a player can kill such a guy without punishment. If the teamkill was by accident, this guy can put his weapon away and enter a (occupied) vehicle. It's just a constructive proposal, not a answer for the teamkilling-problem.

I just want to remind you, since the game is contributed through Steam, you may get banned (and lose real money) when you kill a teamkiller (or repeat fire at a distance), just because the teamkillers are still listed at the friendly side.

Edited by Mirudes

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They would need to make indies not be considered friendlies still, which seems to be quite the issue for them

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If they need to create a new class, according to idiots who started team killing and cheating, they have to do it.

And in my opinion, the alpha is the time to test it.

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I don't think BIS needs provide any anti teamkill measure. It simply isn't their problem to resolve.

The Arma games are based around the editor and creating missions and mods. It's up to the creator to design, create, then implement rules via scripting. Total freedom is what makes arma such an interesting and amazing series.

Every mission is different and requires it's own special set of rules to meet the desired concept. It's much better to create your own, or modify an existing anti team kill script created by the community. Any built in anti team kill method would simply not compare to the customization and rules you can set up via scripting.

Why not look into an anti-teamkill script, learn how it works and use that as a template to suit your own special needs.

From a server admin point of view. I dont want the BI engine to control who plays on my server and who doesn't.

Nor do I want it to decide how players will be punished.

Any Anti TK script should be defined in the mission by the mission maker using whatever parameters are required for that particular mission.

I don't want a coop player who accidentally crashes a helo with a squad in it to be banned/kicked or punished unless the admin decides it is the correct response

I dont want a pvp player to be penalised just because another player runs into his line of fire.

look at the bigger picture folks, its a lot bigger than some of the tunnel vision viewpoints in this thread

Quoted for truth.

Although I do like the idea of a module in the editor that is customizable...

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This thread was moved from the common A3 Alpha forum to the ARMA 3 - ALPHA MULTIPLAYER forum. The given example about the editor is no more current, because it was related to singleplayer-missions, but is still right. Same goes for mods, everybody loves mods and nobody want to miss it.

But we don't have to start the discussion always at point zero again. It just doesn't makes any sense to repeat, how good the old times was. Because it was not all good. I remember a time in A2, when multiplayer was impossible due to the TKClan.

In clear words: MP is a corefunction in A3 and it has got to work. Public. Until BIS tells the customers they have to be in a clan and play on pw-protected servers.

The ArmA2 cheats are highly sophisticated, and they get optimised for A3 right in that moment. There are actually cheats for anonymous teamkilling, or worst case, they blame a innocent player for that teamkill. Who is going to tell me now, that TKilling isn't a BIS issue?

If not BIS is going to fix it, we probably have Steam to take care about this problem. I don't know the arrangement between BIS and Steam, but they will surely talk about unofficial mods in the multiplayer then. So much about future Mod-capability@Steam.

About the server admins:

Most of them have my full respect, but as always, there are some black sheeps. When you still leave all the capabilities to the server admins, you will get cheating server admins. They will start to use "unconventional" tools. They have godmode on their servers, and allow their homecheaters to act at will. They can open backdoors and inject dangerous code to clueless gamers. They could probably force players to pay some money because otherwise they get a global ban.

Edited by Mirudes

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Proposal:

Certainly, it's the teamkiller who has to be left outside. When one player has already killed a friendly unit, he turns to enemy side (or whatever) and can not enter the same vehicle like the other players again. That one teamkiller have to put the equipment and the weapons down. Or Teamkiller, take a walk.

I'm also NOT agreeing that Bohemia should add auto-kick/ban on a per server basis. However maybe a global count of TK and destoyed friendly equipment could generate a user-friendlieness rating that inturn can be used to filter access to your server (by setting a simple slider).

I also do think Bohemia could maybe provide more pre-set punishment hooks ingame that we can use to script with. So as with everything, let Bohemia give us the tools, and leave implementation to us :) This would make your suggestion possible as per below example:

(example scenario that would be possible whith the correct hooks available)

- 1x TK (or multiple at once in case of vehicle crash) = Warning in chat

- Every executive TK in 10min from last punishment in same Game game round = 5min extended punishment

Punishment:

- Drop all items from inventory, including clothes to add to the disembarrassment factor

- Remove option for player to add items to inventory (so no reloading or pickup etc...)

- Remove option for player to enter vehicles

- When Punishment periode stops, sactions will be lifted, however inventory will not be reverted to persios state, plr will need to rearm ar crate.

- When player collected more then 20min executive punishment, move player to OPFOR to serve as unarmed cannon fodder :p

Edited by kamaradski

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When you have scripts running for this purpose, you have a weaker protection. Just because of the human factor (reaction time and so on). And the more scripting is invoked, the weaker it becomes. Because of complexity.

You must set routines in that game for teamkillers and cheaters, where no server-admin have a influence. Some idiots have to be removed instantly, without any human intervention.

An honest question; whats wrong with a script? Why doesnt an anti-TK script work?

I have a good example here, why scripts can be wrong: As we all know, the TKClan loved to blow up full Blackhawks for maximum teamkill. The result was a script, when one player placed a satchel at base (or near a Blackhawk), the player was automaticaly kicked. But occasionally, when the (non-teamkilling) players uses the standard-menu, the satchels are placed accidently at the chopper.

Due to the amount of players, let there be some neewbees, due to players with a higher ping and due to some lag, probably due to some smaller cheats, the menuitem "Get in" is somehow fuzzy. The player had choosen the right item, but after it was used, there was another menuitem activated and executed. For example your switch to pistol or At-Launcher, reloading, Gear-dialog pops up, things like that.

I have often accidently put a satchel next to teh chopper. Server-admins (or mission makers) using scripts against teamkills, and the player is punished because he hit accidently the wrong menu due to lag or netcode.

[snip]I don't want a coop player who accidentally crashes a helo with a squad in it to be banned/kicked or punished unless the admin decides it is the correct response[snap]

Did you mention that the pilot of a crashed chopper receives negative points for the passengers who actually died in that accident? YES, things like that make it unnecessary difficult.

That is not a natural law. It's a bug since Ages. It is a result of incompetence. Why? Because it degrades a normal player down to the level of any f*cking teamkiller or cheater.

And it's time for the developers to take position now. Is BI on the side with us, who have supported this game for so long - or does BI sympathize with this scum?

As a customer I feel punked. Since a very long time. It's enough now.

Wakeup, Bohemia Interactive Studios.

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Nothing in the above can't be resolve by a script, the same way BI should resolve it according to OP. I don't see how getting it done via script is unacceptable when BI solution would be prone to exactly the same issues

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You must set routines in that game for teamkillers and cheaters, where no server-admin have a influence. Some idiots have to be removed instantly, without any human intervention.

Yes, you are right - no scripting is needed. Now figure out, what I am talking about.

This is the first thing that can be fixed with the next Alpha-version: Count teamkills as teamkills and kick those players on the fly.

That is the basic level where you can start at.

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OP is right. BIS must provide as many features as possible in the official version of the game if they want to hold the average player, and also so as to not split the community with over-modded servers (not saying those don't have a place).

Arma has NEVER been for the 'average player'. Sorry, but you're experiencing exactly why you're NOT the target audience of this game.

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Have they solved the problem with teamswitchers in ArmA3?

Do they have a concept how it can be achived?

Without sideshow-BattlEye?

Without the interrogation of the community?

Without user-scripts?

Here is my concept: When you leave the server - can not longer connect to this PvP-mission again.

Problem solved. Next.

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Have they solved the problem with teamswitchers in ArmA3?

Do they have a concept how it can be achived?

Without sideshow-BattlEye?

Without the interrogation of the community?

Without user-scripts?

Here is my concept: When you leave the server - can not longer connect to this PvP-mission again.

Problem solved. Next.

No, I don't want this.

You keep thinking that ArmA 3 is an average run of the mill game. I don't want forced team-switch prevention as that can ruin some missions I design. If I want team-switch prevention, I'll script into into the client-side initialization of my mission. I'm not saying BIS shouldn't/couldn't at least write these scripts and provide them to mission designers, but I don't want this forced, ever.

Same with team-kills. Script in your own solution (or have BIS provide one that mission designers can include), but nothing should be forced.

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Being a ArmA-Mission maker with great scripting know-how doesn't make automatically a trustworthy person out of you.

When you know how to make things like these, you possibly also know how to steal ArmA-keys?

Please tell the normal ArmA-player how to tell the difference.

It is now up to Bohemia Interactive Studios to rework some of the before mentioned groundworks before they can even think about further development.

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There are already several anti TK scripts, whats wrong with them?

Also, and i know that this has probably been said 100+ times during the Alpha, but ArmA is not "Medal of Battlefield: Modern Warfare revelations xxx" friendly fire is an essential part of the game, its up to you what you and how you do it. Of course it's annoying in public servers, but hey Simulations aren't quite the preferred game for Public MP.

Cheers

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Being a ArmA-Mission maker with great scripting know-how...

When you know how to make things like these, you possibly also know how to steal ArmA-keys?

So what you're saying here is that everyone who has ever contributed to this community is untrustworthy and a thief?

Thats real nice, mr I joined a month ago...

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as Mission-maker my self i dont like to see a Forced Anti-TK system,

but I would have nothing against a Anti-TK Module by BIS as long as it remains optional, to the end mission maker & Server Admins have the job to prevent TK/cheating if the mission needs it.

i dont Realy know how for example a Wastland with a Bandit faction that have FFA rules and a Forced Anti-TK system would look like, but i imagine it would Destroy the mission or at last forced the MK to redesign the mission wich is a absolutely No-Go.

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There are already several anti TK scripts, whats wrong with them?

^this

I cant see the problem, its already out there and being used so why should BI waste time on making it a feature when you just go DL a script and run it on the server/mission.

And like rAMMY mentions, a forced TK system would cause issues in missions its not suppose to be in.

Im having a hard time seing how Admins cant do this themselves and BI "have to provide" it.

This is exactly why we have the community, with so many skilled people.

To do stuff like this so BI can focus on the more important stuff.

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There are already several anti TK scripts, whats wrong with them?
Here is a another posting of mine in another thread, "The ultimate thread about Arma 3 anti-cheat discussion". I believe it belongs to here, because it wasn't mention yet:

Every (AntCheat-) script that is running, eats processor capacity. It is consuming the power of the main processor. No matter where - if it is on the server or a the client. The overall performance and the net-transfer will suffer. While kicking a teamkiller with a negative score is a nothing.

:butbut: B-b-but you can't kick teamkillers in DayZ, right?

[snip] friendly fire is an essential part of the game, its up to you what you and how you do it. Of course it's annoying in public servers, but hey Simulations aren't quite the preferred game for Public MP.

Cheers

I could even agree with that. But at first you have to clear up the basic level.

It is more worse because the A3Alpha was released without any (BattlEye-) protection. That game becomes unplayable in MP (for example) due to criminals who wants to steal your A3 license. Here it is very important to have a short reaction time.

Cheers, mate

Edited by Mirudes

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But having negative score doesnt equal TK tbh. You can just as easy get it from accidents.

And dont get me wrong, but everything is scripts....

It wouldnt matter if you slap a TK script into a server, as its build to do exactly that, have a million scripts running at the same time.

I cant see your point tbh, 1 script, if well written, will not have any kind of impact on performance what so ever.

You make it sound like the engine isnt build for this exact purpose, while it infact is.

1000 or 10000 scripts will have an impact, but we are talking about 1 single script here, nothing else.

It is more worse because the A3Alpha was released without any (BattlEye-) protection. That game becomes unplayable in MP (for example) due to criminals who wants to steal your A3 license. Here it is very important to have a short reaction time.

Sorry but thats complete and utter BS, you cant steal an Arma III License, its bound to your Steam Account, so people will have to steal the Steam Account from you, and thats far more difficult then using a simple registry key logger...

So if it gets stolen, its the entire Steam Account they need, not just a simple key like Arma II.

Thats one of the reasons BI choose to become "Steam Exclusive" like they did. Once the game is accepted on the account, its locked forever.

Edited by Byrgesen

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Being a ArmA-Mission maker with great scripting know-how doesn't make automatically a trustworthy person out of you.

When you know how to make things like these, you possibly also know how to steal ArmA-keys?

Please tell the normal ArmA-player how to tell the difference.

It is now up to Bohemia Interactive Studios to rework some of the before mentioned groundworks before they can even think about further development.

What does a mission script have to do anything with stealing cd keys?

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The Artificial intelligence (AI, Bots) are very dependent to the processor performance. If you have ever played ArmA before, you would know that the AI have blackouts for that reason.

When you tell the players, scripting works in ArmA, how comes that it doesn't work?

When you are satisfied with all your scripts, why do you play on closed servers?

Do you believe that Steam will care about your negative score, when you gets banned, because it was a accidental helicopter crash?

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The Artificial intelligence (AI, Bots) are very dependent to the processor performance. If you have ever played ArmA before, you would know that the AI have blackouts for that reason.

I realize this, but what does AI performance have to do with TK scripts?

Its 2 different features and they have next to nothing to do with each other, so i dont get it.

When you tell the players, scripting works in ArmA, how comes that it doesn't work?

Im not saying it all works, im saying the entire game was build around this feature.

Ofc all scripts doesnt work yet, its very early Alpha build and i can promise you NOBODY has ever said everything works in Arma III.

When you are satisfied with all your scripts, why do you play on closed servers?

Because we dont have AC yet, and how exactly did you come up with this "When you are satisfied with all your scripts"?

Im saying BI doesnt have to do this, because people in the community will do it and BI knows it.

Do you believe that Steam will care about your negative score, when you gets banned, because it was a accidental helicopter crash?

First of all, you will never get banned for accidently crashing a chopper.

Second, Steam better care how they handle this, or it will damage theyre image.

Third, we dont even know if its gonna be VAC, BE or something else, thats gonna ban people yet..........

So what exactly is it you are trying to tell us?

I dont understand what you are trying to explain and how it has something to do with a TK scripts and who has to provide it.

Again we are talking about 1 script running server side, that doesnt have any impact on performance, if written well.

I still believe it can be done by the community and BI doesnt have to provide this kind of feature, they got much more important stuff to do.

Correction:

It has already been done by the community for the Arma series, it works and it has options so you can costumize it for your needs.

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[snip] we dont even know if its gonna be VAC, BE or something else, thats gonna ban people yet...[snap]

Yes, it always was a dirty business and will ever be.

It seems like you have a full-time job here!

So much effort just to prevent a basic ANTI-TK system? :confused:

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Yes, it always was a dirty business and will ever be.

It seems like you have a full-time job here!

So much effort just to prevent a basic ANTI-TK system? :confused:

No not to prevent mate, im just trying to understand why BI have to provide it and why the community isnt good enough for you :)

But im pretty active on theese forums yes ;)

Edited by Byrgesen

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