MCC Sandbox 3 - Dynamic mission creating tool for ArmA 3

[shukari 28]

[...]

1. The BIS_fnc_sorrtBy isn't a game effective error - the zones array is set by the zones numbers so zone 1 is the 2nd element in the array and zone 10 is the 11th element, the BI function don't know how to handle nil arguments. Maybe we'll need to write our own. 

[...]

 

It is a game effective error, it spams the server to a crash... every second ~10 times that message. Log has more than 200k lines and 80MB :P

[shay_gman 272]

I don't use 2d editor - never liked it even if it will go 3d. Well it is fine if you enjoying more of military sim and less of the game-play, The dumb ArmA AI + open world leads to mostly exploits by the players rather then a challenge - the most common tactic I see is "stand on a hill and shoot them from a far" where if there was a dynamic tool I would just spawn artillery on their head or spawn AI group behind them as a punishment for not maneuvering,

 

On the other hand there are this big all over the map combat missions/mods which are nice in terms of game-play as you have a lot of things going on but very unrealistic as no war goes unplanned and even in total war you always know which side is the front and each mission is specifically designed and planned. You usually expect what you are facing and it is not like "wow they have a tank" Real Life combat is all about actions and reactions or in another words training and planning. That is why even in the more fluid part of MCC aka the mission and campaign generators a big part of it was to break down each campaign to missions, and each mission to task and give a proper briefing regarding the enemy size, assets, reinforcement, civilians population and more to keep it immersed.

 

So for me any mission that isn't dynamic have to be 100% planned to cover all the possible exploits and fuck ups that the players will do/create inorder get anywhere immersive enough to my taste and to create this kind of mission takes a lot of planning, testing and thinking of all the possible exploits. 

 

I'll give you an example: 

I was planing with a community and we had a mission to secure an HVT, The HVT was transit in a convoy and the enemy had a QRF (Quick Reaction Force) near by. The mission was to capture  the HVT and escort him the the exfil. The first part - capturing the HVT was spouse to be easy and the real mission should have been escorting him back while being tailed by the enemy.

The players sneak in by night to the ambush point, set up an ambush. The convoy arrived, the ambush was successful and in the first wave of fire most of the enemy vehicles, and units where down. The HVT was captured and the enemy QRF arrived as transport helicopter dropping more enemy units. The player managed to shoot down the enemy pilot and took over the helicopter and just flew the HVT to the Exfil point. From a hard, immersive mission it turns out to be an easy arcadish non realistic mission. 

Do you imagine in real life infantry flying a hostile helicopter with an HVT in it?!

 

Next day I introduced the AA CAS run to MCC to destroy air assets only - next time the players will capture an operational enemy helicopter two fast movers will pop up and destroy it. 

 

The example above happen  a very long time ago, in ArmA 2, and since then there are another ways to handle it as locking the helicopter, destroying the engine exc but this is just an example as players will always find the way to exploit the game. That is why nothing that isn't dynamic just isn't good enough for me. 

 

 

It is a game effective error, it spams the server to a crash... every second ~10 times that message. Log has more than 200k lines and 80MB :P

 

I tried to reproduce this error on a dedi and I couldn't. Can you help me pinpoint to the when does it start?

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

Do you imagine in real life infantry flying a hostile helicopter with an HVT in it?!

 

No, and you clearly understand that in this example, the players are the problem, not the mission. Most milsim communities will not allow this if the mission doesn't specify that one (or more) specific guy is qualified to fly this kind of chopper.

 

Not to derail the thread in a "GM vs editor" mission, my point is just that GAIA is also used in editor mission (and put to great use ! :) ) . Any RTS features should have a switch to enable or disable them.

[shay_gman 272]

No, and you clearly understand that in this example, the players are the problem, not the mission. Most milsim communities will not allow this if the mission doesn't specify that one (or more) specific guy is qualified to fly this kind of chopper.

 

Not to derail the thread in a "GM vs editor" mission, my point is just that GAIA is also used in editor mission (and put to great use ! :) ) . Any RTS features should have a switch to enable or disable them.

 

Oh no don't get me wrong i'm totally up to creating GAIA stand alone - just farting my thoughts on general discussion regarding the pros & cons of different game styles. I'm up to any game style that you people enjoy playing. 

[kremator 1064]

I enjoy MCC and I enjoy GAIA standalone too.  I am so glad that you guys are helping to make Arma3 awesome! 

[spirit6 51]

As long as I receive cookies and beer from you guys I do anyting.

[spirit6 51]

May be in the long term but, in my opinion, I'd prefer GAIA to stick to its commander role and not becoming a CTI general.

 

The beauty of GAIA (script version) is that it can be used in many ways ! In the community I'm playing with, we always play 2d editor missions. And in all those missions, nearly half are using GAIA !! :)

We sadly just recently started to stop using it because, after so many BiS patches, we had recurring issues (e.g. groups that started to be idle, or many groups patroling the same point).

I'd love to see a GAIA update as it's one of the best AI control mod out there ! :)

Funny. There are no messages of issues or bugs regarding the use of GAIA.  :)

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

Funny. There are no messages of issues or bugs regarding the use of GAIA.  :)

 

It's in the script version of GAIA thread.

cf https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/172933-mission-template-stand-alone-gaia-make-missions-fast-by-using-mcc-gaia-engine/page-8#entry2934330

 

As for the "all groups on the same spot", I've never been able to link it to a specific error message so far.

[S.Crowe 142]

The dumb ArmA AI + open world leads to mostly exploits by the players rather then a challenge

 

There are two ends to the spectrum: 100% scripted and 100% game master (GM). I think you designed MCC to lean more towards the GM side of things. As you mentioned, the problem with scripted missions is that the Arma AI is just not designed to handle complex scenarios. It can barely hold its ground in a firefight let alone a use complex field tactics. If you have a GM, they can at least keep things realistic.

 

I honestly get frustrated with longtime Arma players. In my experience, if you meet someone who has been playing Arma since Operation Flashpoint, they typically just exploit the shit out of the AI. They are so use to scripted missions + dumb AI that they throw away military tactics and take shortcuts because the shortcuts work. I have lost count the number of times I was in a fireteam or squad where I was the only one "really" watching my sector, and I am almost always the only one watching our rear. The reason I am the only one is because the Arma veterans know that that AI is not smart enough to create complex counter-attacks. They are so use to taking an objective and everyone just chilling till there next orders come in.

 

When I was a higher up in my old clan, I would hop on Zeus (MCC was forbidden in that clan), and at least make missions interesting. I'm sorry Blunts (our clan leader) if you are reading this, but most of the times they thought ALiVE was doing something awesome, it was really me.

 

GAIA, or any AI mod, can never  really replace a good game master. Note I wrote "good," because with great power comes great responsibility. I can imagine we have all played with someone as a GM that didn't understand immersion. I have some awful memories of games that were so frustrating because the GM would make AI appear out of thin air. I hate that shit. You need a good GM. Honestly, that's all I really want to do at the moment. I loved being a game master. I loved actually role playing the enemy. I would use MCC to setup my assets, and then I would move them around from the perspective of the OPFOR commander. Not some stupid AI who never does counter-attacks. Not some super GM who knows the position of every BLUFOR, and spawns enemies all over the place. I would make it as real as possible.

 

Another good aspect about game masters is that we can customize the mission based on the number of players. I have also lost track of the times i have played a mission that went horrible, and the mission maker apologized because the mission was made for a larger number of players. In honesty, I have made one or two horrible missions myself because of this issue. With a scripted mission you either make it for a set number of players, or you work extra hard to script the mission to scale based on player count. With a game mastered mission, you can adjust on the fly. If you expected 40 people, and 5 showed up, you might need to thin out the opposition.

 

What really frustrates me is that mods like ALiVE are seen as "best thing ever". While I have a lot of respect for these big mods, they typically only create the illusion of war: plop some units here, send some units there. In a scenario such as BLUFOR attacking a checkpoint.There typically is no response. There may be an OPFOR patrol 120 meters off, but is there any type of recognition of the attack? Nope! Does the OPFOR controlled city, which is 500 meters from the checkpoint, go on alert? Nope! Does OPFOR command send reinforcements? Nope!

 

GAIA tries its best to meet these scenarios, but like you said shay_gman you cannot script for every scenario. Even GAIA 2.0, or whatever, would not be able to fully replace a good game master.

 

Man I wish I could just sign up for being a GM in a clan. I love having my boots on the ground and being a soldier, but the time investment for training is just too much at the moment. At least with being a GM, you can spend 40 minutes prior to mission time setting up, and just enjoy.

[delta99 34]

I've done this and used it very successfully by playing a recon type roll. Once I spot units GAIA starts commanding its units onto the enemy positions. It is a lot of fun this way.

 

Yes. So you can for example put infantry units near by that will support you. Put AI mortars, artillery and CAS to support you when needed. Fully automated. I dont think this feature is most used but I found it fun :)

[sinny 18]

Maybe im blind, but i cant even find a download link...

[shay_gman 272]

@Stcrowe I can't agree more. :cheers:

 

You got it wrong when MCC tend to the GM side more. When we used to play, I really miss that part and i'm thinking about re-opening a clan again  :dancered: , we used to make missions in 10 minutes using MCC while the guys sorted their gear and groups. We had about 2-3 different mission a night, we skip the BS and we placed a start location more or less close to the AO and we considerate on the tactics (nobody likes to drive 20 minutes just because you made a great FOB in the airport. When I make the mission I considering opening MCC/Zeus in mid-mission as a crime - you open it only when you really really need it. 

I handle missions as riddles - I think of the mission I have and what should be the best way for the players to approach it as example: I leave a canyon leading to OA clear or adding disabling IED on the route to the OA to test the players ambush evading skill. Then I close MCC and join as a medic. Usually a mission consist of a few zones 3 or 4 with some zones near by with QRF/CAS or artillery (if there is in the mission) and then you just play while being surprised by the AI wonderfully conducted by GAIA as they utilize QRF or CAS if you got exposed to early. 

 

We never had MCC with micro management in mind, it is not Zeus, it was and still just a fancy UI to an AI master mind (used to be UPSMON and now GAIA) with a lot of side functions you can use or not if you really want to add some specific actions or atmosphere. 

 

 

 

Maybe im blind, but i cant even find a download link...

 

First post on this thread, Steam workshop, play with 6 or give us your mail address and we'll send you a CD :)

[maxvil 10]

Hello,

in my new Mission i want to put some IED (with the new Mini Game) into. Is it possible to create a trigger that show a hint if all IED´s are disarmed?

I hope someone  could help me.

[S.Crowe 142]

Correct me if I'm wrong shay_gman, but the IED is just a dummy vehicle. You can check for the variable (on the vehicle) "armed" and see if it is true or false. I believe is the IED has exploded, the vehicle will not be alive, so you can check for that too.

[maxvil 10]

thanks 

yes the vehicle is not alive after it has exploded. I've been testing with some triggers right now. I proof to check the variable.

[maxvil 10]

i get no true or false for the variable "armed". Could you tell me what i schould write in the Condition Field of a trigger? 

thanks

[shay_gman 272]

Yup stcrow you got it right but the armed variable is attached to an hidden object and not the object the player see. 

I'll explain: MCC spawns an hidden object attached to the object you used as the IED. So the real IED is a hidden object and the fake IED is the object you have placed. You can check if the real IED is alive.

Example in the init line of an object:

_null = this spawn {
   [_this,"medium",0,60,true,0,30,west] spawn MCC_fnc_createIED;
   sleep 10;
   while {alive (_this getvariable ["realIed",objNull])} do {sleep 1};
   hint "IED has been disarmed/explode".
};

You can check the function here:

https://github.com/shaygman/mcc_sandbox.Altis/blob/master/mcc/fnc/ied/fn_createIED.sqf

 

Apparently I messed up a little as calling the function should return an array with the 1st element the object and 2nd the real IED but I used execVM rather then spawn so it will not return a value as it will go into a loop,

I'll try to remember to fix it for the next release. 

[maxvil 10]

thanks shay_gman but the code you have posted dont work for me. I have changed the code because the " (qoutes) at the End of the hint messages are missing.

 

This is the code i have used:

_null = 0 spawn {[this,"medium",0,60,true,0,30,west] spawn MCC_fnc_createIED; sleep 10; while (alive (this getvariable ["realIed",objNull])) do {sleep 1};hint "IED has been disarmed/explode."};

If i Write it in an Init field of an Object an error pops up if the server starts.

 

Error in expression <_null = 0 spawn {[this,"medium",0,60,true,0,30,west] spawn>

Error position: <this,"medium",0,60,true,0,30,west] spawn>

Error Nicht definierte Variable in Ausdruck: this

 

Error in expression <_fnc_createIED; sleep 10; while (alive (this getvariable ["realIed",objNull])) d>

Error position: <this getvariable ["realIed",objNull])) d>

Error while: Nicht definierte Variable in Ausdruck: this

[shay_gman 272]

I've fixed it try again - changed the code. 

[maxvil 10]

thanks shay_gman

but it don't works with the changed code. I get these Error Messages:

 

Error in expression <,west] spawn MCC_fnc_createIED;sleep 10;while (alive (_this getvariable ["realIe>

Error position: <while (alive (_this getvariable ["realIe>

Error while: Typ Bool, erwartet code

 

I have put a Barrel on the Map and named it test, the Text "Hold  to Disarm" already shown but in the Interaction Menu is no entry "Bomb Defuse"

[shay_gman 272]

{} instead of this () - fixed it again. It's hard to write code while at work  B)

[maxvil 10]

@Shay_Gman

 

Works fine thank you very much,

 

Only the hint in your code is wrong. The . (dot) has to be before the " (quotation mark)

[hugodm9 30]

Hey Shay! Im using MCC Medical system and it's awesome!

In other note, i'm disabling MCC Logistics but i still can create a FOB from the interaction menu. I can't construct it but i still can place the area. I'm sorry for my english.

[assassins 11]

Hello))) Have some trouble today with MCC and ACE and Battleeye....

 

Look here:

 

 

 

battleye block all ACE .dll files and MCC interface in editor dont start.......And editor in Arma not preview)))) (at before).... what is it the problem?

[robert31178 100]

Not sure if this has been brought up, and I just plumb am not going to wade through 215 pages of stuff to look for it lol......sorry!!

 

Is there a way to get the mod to log whomever is in control out of MCC when they leave a server or get kicked from server? Time and time again my squadmates forget to log out before they leave our server, and a few times the "controller" has been kicked, and it locks MCC control out.