Arma 3 Alpha lacking Arma 2's immersion and fear factor.

[jmac6888 1]

"Slowing sprinting speed" is not enough. There are many more bigger issues with realism discussed in this and the other thread. BIS remains silent.

No way they could miss such thing as having zero inertia running with NLAW that also seems to have zero weight.

Insta self-heal medkits are something that's straight out of Dragon Rising too.

Better to complain now than to realize it's too late in one or two months. Because people in this thread are not the only ones that complain. If we wouldn't complain BIS could consider that "this is war" on the loading screen that will supposedly make you kill your neighbor and his dog the moment you see it is the only problem with the game that people have.

I really don't think you are giving the BIS dev team any credit. They are not that stupid and they will look at all these issues and queries. It's fine to state that this seems to be an issue and its been logged to be fixed.

How many times does it need to be said. This is an ALPHA...................................Take a step back, take a breath, have a cigarette. The world as we know it isn't going to end because the ALPHA version of arma 3 isn't 100% realistic.

BIS are not going to come out and say any specifics on this topic yet because AGAIN its not their main point of focus at this time.

It's all about stability right now. If the game wasn't stable you would be complaining even more than you already are because you wouldn't be able to play it full stop.

[fujix 11]

Dunno about you guys but I get scared shitless in a firefight in A3 compared to A2 and run for cover and barely peak out. Might have to do something with AI having uber aimbot :D

But immersion is definitely better in A3 overall. Sounds are much much better (lol @ ppl that say sound in A2 was better...what a joke), radio chatter and movement is much improved. I enjoy the infantry firefights much more in A3. Might wanna tone down the recoil a bit tho to A2 levels :)

But yeah on the grenade issue I agree that they are thrown way to fast. Make it take a little longer. Read a suggestion somewhere that you can ready the grenade by pressing G, then you can throw it with the mouse buttons.

[chortles 263]

But yeah on the grenade issue I agree that they are thrown way to fast. Make it take a little longer. Read a suggestion somewhere that you can ready the grenade by pressing G, then you can throw it with the mouse buttons.

Jay Crowe also told Gamespot that the grenade throwing is WIP, it was just left as-is (I guess "the way it was by the deadline"?) for the stable alpha's initial release.

[johncage 30]

the grenade animation is missing the part where they take it out of the pocket and pull the pin. probably would be best if grenade is an item you can equip. same with chemlight, tools, etc.

[TFM_Callas 1]

I love all this moaning about realism and how "OMG this is turning in to CoD!" is becoming a regular statement. This is WAY more realistic then the initial ArmA 2 release. I mean there is a few issues such as grenades being thrown too quickly and the Radio being clunky and annoying like A2 was but how many times does it need to be said that this is an Alpha. Things aren't finalized and I'm sure if its as obvious to you as it is to me then it will be obvious to the devs too.

Being as judgmental and critical about a WIP game is just comical to me. You have all these people getting into a fit about how this tiny little detail isn't as polished as it could be. Did anyone actually play ArmA 2 on release? It was clunky as hell, but it had potential. Thats the thing with ArmA 3. At least they are getting the kinks out in alpha rather than at release. Not to mention that ACE will release and then all your realism worrys will be put to rest. So please, take a deep breath, get up from the computer and go get some fresh air. All will be right in the world.

[chortles 263]

The complaints seem to be less about the current state (due to all the WIP/alpha/so on disclaimers that people can throw at them... like you just did) and more about the baseline that the devs chose to start tweaking from and the inferrences that the complainers draw from that choice of a baseline while stuff like "ACE" (as a whole suite, not just content) and ACRE remains "wait for a mod, BI isn't making any change from Arma 2 here", and thus where the devs choose to "make this different from Arma 2" in regards to their vanilla/unmodded states...

No offence but it sounds like you are a person that may have problems finding yourself immersed in a good book or movie? There is nothing wrong with that, we are all different so I hope this won't comes across in a wrong way, I'm just curious...

/KC

Sorry for replying so late, but this is generally true for me, actually, though interestingly enough a good story -- whether as a book, electronic text (book form not required!) or even a comic -- can and will get me to stick around to try and read up all-the-way-through-in-one-sitting.

I don't recall the last time, if ever, that a video game (or a so-called "simulator" :rolleyes: ) ever did that, unfortunately -- frankly, no Arma game has ever approached that -- and I suppose that with the above exception there's a generally insurmountable "fourth wall" between me and whatever media I'm consuming or interacting with, if you get my drift? To that extent, any concern over loss of "immersion and fear factor" due to setting, gameplay or whatever basically doesn't ring any bells in my head.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Chortles

[Masharra 10]

Being as judgmental and critical about a WIP game is just comical to me.

Isnt now(until release) a better time then after it is released?

Heck one could argue that the game is still WIP after release. *arma 2 release

Silence, they say, is the voice of complicity.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Masharra

[Alwarren 2765]

Being as judgmental and critical about a WIP game is just comical to me. You have all these people getting into a fit about how this tiny little detail isn't as polished as it could be. Did anyone actually play ArmA 2 on release? It was clunky as hell, but it had potential. Thats the thing with ArmA 3. At least they are getting the kinks out in alpha rather than at release. Not to mention that ACE will release and then all your realism worrys will be put to rest. So please, take a deep breath, get up from the computer and go get some fresh air. All will be right in the world.

I am sorry but I disagree. The Alpha's explicitly stated purpose is to collect feedback. What you propose is a wait-and-see attitude that might or might not evolve into a game that I might or might not like. NOW actually is the time to point out what you think is broken. We didn't have this chance at Arma 2's release, and just because Arma 2 was pretty horribly broken at release (yes, I got it pretty much at day one) doesn't mean this process has to repeat.

Relying on a mod isn't going to work either. I want the core game mechanics to be right. This isn't about realism as in backblast or overpressure. This is about TRON-like change of direction and zero-time acceleration that might not even be changeable via a mod.

And it doesn't even matter on what side of the fence you are. People that do not speak up now have no rights to complain once the game is finished. That was the actual point of the alpha..

[metalcraze 290]

Being as judgmental and critical about a WIP game is just comical to me.

Yes people should just stay silent and wait until the game is released and only then whine. When it's already too late. Oh but ACE mod is a magic cure that will fix everything.

Why even make alpha to collect feedback if disagreeing with design decisions = silly moaning of a bunch of "hipsters"?

[deepfried 1]

I think the "immersion / fear factor" thing is all down to the map, its in Greece so the lighting is very bright and the colours are washed out, there isn't much tree cover, and there are no cities... compared to Chernarus you feel like you're exposed on a desert island which I suppose for many isn't a relatable scenario.

[nodunit 397]

How pretty a place is doesn't make it more or less tense, Far cry 1 (better since it didn't have regenerating health and had to use medpacs to heal along with no knife perks that make things too easy) and 3 are perfect examples of this (crysis 1 no since you had the nano suit)

Ask if Iwo Jima didn't have a fear factor. It's about you as the player getting into it and right now there is no particular direction to really set the feel. In the past we'd see multiplayer and other missions as extensions of the single player, a part of a bigger story whereas Arma 3 at the moment has no story.

Personally I'm happy with how bare of cities Stratis is, one of my peeves on Cherno was that there weren't many places to get "lost". Generally there was a road leading to civilization everywhere, never giving a feeling of isolation after getting used to it in North Sahrani, though it also has the nice tropicalish feel from South Sahrani which I also enjoyed so I could just be a bit biased.

Edited March 22, 2013 by NodUnit

[Alwarren 2765]

Why even make alpha to collect feedback if disagreeing with design decisions = silly moaning of a bunch of "hipsters"?

My point exactly. Getting called a fanboy/elitist/whatever every time someone points out something that might not be the best solution or may have been better in Arma 2 is getting quite old.

[dnk 13]

Eh, I just miss Sahrani. Such geographic/cultural range was nice, being able to transition from this Mediterranean type climate to a middle easternish dry one to a large port city to swiss alps and Canadian rockies all in one map... Now we get more realistic monothemed ones. Eh. Progress?

On that note, WHERE ARE THE RIVERS?

Such a pet peeve of mine to have a milsim without rivers, brooks, streams, etc, just mountains and dry gorges since forever.

I do wish we had more cities, but I think the full map should be more interesting.

[EuroSlave 1]

Lemnos is a dry island. I hope the full map does include some streams. I can't remember if I saw any during my travels. I know there are geothermal springs ...

[KeyCat 131]

But immersion is definitely better in A3 overall. Sounds are much much better (lol @ ppl that say sound in A2 was better...what a joke), radio chatter and movement is much improved. I enjoy the infantry firefights much more in A3.

It was not a joke from my side... Maybe the soundscape experienced in A3 Alpha differ between different sound HW/drivers?

As I said before unless I crank up the volume and risks damaging my hearing when firing there is no/very faint ambient sounds like footsteps, wind, bullet wizhes, bullet cracks, near bullets hitting ground or other structures, etc. All of this I can clearly hear in A2 and makes the environment/firefights much more "alive". For me this is a big part of the immersion factor that is not there in current A3 Alpha when I'm playing it.

Maybe it would be good idea to list sound HW and drivers to see if there are any patterns... I'm using the built in audio on a old Gigabyte X38 MB and it's based on the standard Realtek ALC889A High Definition Audio using driver version 2.69, and using regular stereo headphones.

Edit: I do agree that the radio traffic is better in A3.

/KC

Edited March 22, 2013 by KeyCat

[jegornl 1]

I think the "immersion / fear factor" thing is all down to the map, its in Greece so the lighting is very bright and the colours are washed out, there isn't much tree cover, and there are no cities... compared to Chernarus you feel like you're exposed on a desert island which I suppose for many isn't a relatable scenario.

Agreed!

[ak1287 1]

Isnt now(until release) a better time then after it is released?

Heck one could argue that the game is still WIP after release. *arma 2 release

Silence, they say, is the voice of complicity.

There's testing stages for a reason, though.

Alpha stage is for stability purposes. Beta is for mechanics. I can understand wanting to get the drop on a mechanical fix for the beta, but wording it in such a way as 'Y ARMA COD NOW' is just plain stupid.

[System98 10]

It was not a joke from my side... Maybe the soundscape experienced in A3 Alpha differ between different sound HW/drivers?

As I said before unless I crank up the volume and risks damaging my hearing when firing there is no/very faint ambient sounds like footsteps, wind, bullet wizhes, bullet cracks, near bullets hitting ground or other structures, etc. All of this I can clearly hear in A2 and makes the environment/firefights much more "alive". For me this is a big part of the immersion factor that is not there in current A3 Alpha when I'm playing it.

Maybe it would be good idea to list sound HW and drivers to see if there are any patterns... I'm using the built in audio on a old Gigabyte X38 MB and it's based on the standard Realtek ALC889A High Definition Audio using driver version 2.69, and using regular stereo headphones.

Edit: I do agree that the radio traffic is better in A3.

/KC

I feel (actually hear) it differently. I hear clsoe footsteps, ambient sounds and even distant, directional gunfire just fine. IMHO ArmA III sounds way better than ArmA II. On my 5.1 Hi-Fi System (attached to PC) the guns sound very realistic and the whizzes and cracks from nearby shots make me take my head down even in RL. Even on my headset with Stereo (when I play late at night) it sounds a lot better than ArmA II. Maybe there is something wrong with different hardware/driver settings? I'd take the ArmA III sound effects over ArmA II ACE any day.

My sound system:

Soundcard: Creative X-Fi Gamer

Driver: Latest

Speakers: Teufel Concept E Magnum 450 Watt 5.1 System

Headphone: Sennheiser RS 120 II

[KeyCat 131]

Thanks for chiming in Shadow, seems like it indeed are differences between HW so maybe more people can list their experience and what HW/drivers they use helping dev's to see patterns and nail it...

/KC

[bad benson 1733]

BIS are not going to come out and say any specifics on this topic yet because AGAIN its not their main point of focus at this time.

It's all about stability right now. If the game wasn't stable you would be complaining even more than you already are because you wouldn't be able to play it full stop.

oh do tell us more! how do they work at BI? do animation artists also code MP and everyone is always working on the same thing simultaneously?

well i better hope that smookie and vespa fix the MP crashes i suffer from soon so they can get back to working on animations....:rolleyes:

[Make Love Not War 10]

Alpha stage is for stability purposes. Beta is for mechanics.

It's the other way around. Beta is feature locked and for debugging only. Considering full release is slated for Q3, Alpha has to be finished by the end of Q2 at latest. That gives BIS precious little time to implement additional features and suggestions, so, as others are pointing out, better make your voices heard NOW.

[dnk 13]

Lemnos is a dry island. I hope the full map does include some streams. I can't remember if I saw any during my travels. I know there are geothermal springs ...

Point was that there has NEVER been a river in an ArmA release because it doesn't seem to be in the engine's abilities, which is a massive limitation. I know I've seen ponds above sea level, so it might be doable, but apparently no one's thought it important enough or good looking enough to implement.

[ak1287 1]

It's the other way around. Beta is feature locked and for debugging only. Considering full release is slated for Q3, Alpha has to be finished by the end of Q2 at latest. That gives BIS precious little time to implement additional features and suggestions, so, as others are pointing out, better make your voices heard NOW.

I think it's actually more accurate to say that both stages are going to be used for both purposes. It's entirely possible to tweak a mechanic in beta, but it's a lot harder to fix a game-crashing bug.

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting getting your voice heard; I think there's a distinct problem with the way a lot of people have vocalized them though.

[johncage 30]

I think it's actually more accurate to say that both stages are going to be used for both purposes. It's entirely possible to tweak a mechanic in beta, but it's a lot harder to fix a game-crashing bug.

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting getting your voice heard; I think there's a distinct problem with the way a lot of people have vocalized them though.

you're wrong. beta is very advanced into development. you won't be seeing any major changes to features. as for how people vocalize their problems, who cares, this is a game is rated m for adults, and that extends to the forums. people with fragile sensibilities don't belong here.

[ak1287 1]

you're wrong. beta is very advanced into development. you won't be seeing any major changes to features. as for how people vocalize their problems, who cares, this is a game is rated m for adults, and that extends to the forums. people with fragile sensibilities don't belong here.

That's assuming that the mechanics don't already exist, and just aren't implemented/being tweaked currently. The order of importance is/should be: game crashing bugs > feature completion > beta testing > stability fixes > release. I'll be more worried once I see a 100% stable alpha build with the movement still the same.

As for your second point, the game is rated M for Mature; that is the component that seems to be lacking.