Arma 3 Linux Version ?

[Deadfast 43]

Now you're just trolling, I've made three attempts to take this back on topic, and you've conspicously made zero effort at doing any material diligence. You are however right, for you this is tantamount to religious belief and anything especially facts like the Earth orbiting the Sun will be blasphemy. But make some mental effort to do your own diligence, learn to search Microsoft Technet and and MSDN, you'll learn that the Windows Aero compositer uses OpenGL and (shockingly) can confer as much as a 50% performance hit to OpenGL games and applications unless it's disabled ...

Hold it right there. You're the one coming up with these rather extraordinary claims, the burden of proof is on you and you only, don't try to deflect it onto others. So, sources please.

[hoak 0]

You really mean gratis??? And why the hell BI doesn'accept it?? The best game series ever ported on linux GRATIS??????? I can't believe it. Can you post the link about please?

Sure, there are several threads that discuss this here and on the Phoronix forums, this is one of the oldest that will get you to most (or give you the content to get you there).

Don't be so surprised; BI, even with all the success it's recently seen is still a very small company -- there's considerable risk and exposure to their IP in sharing it with an outside Developer; especially so as it their only IP. As well, this was only assumed and may not be the reason for BI not visibly following-up on the offer -- they may well already have had an in-house project along these lines for some time, and there may be extenuating issues of licensure etc...

As to the lack of BI participation in discussion of alternative and FOSS OS platform -- look no further then this thread to see the sort of petty sophomoric Windows vs. Linux diatribe that is perpetuated even in this thread, or look at a few other Linux threads to see how far off the charts it goes...

As to the Troll posts: if you're going to troll a thread considerably off-topic, only have a few posts on the forum, and are sincerely interested in the off topic subject matter you're challenging you should: 1) do so politely, 2) extend the same consideration you're asking for and answer questions that were asked first, 3) make at least a modicum of effort to stay on topic. If he's sincerely interested he can PM me any time, apologize, and I'll offer up the requite information -- I doubt that this will ever happen...

Edited May 19, 2013 by Hoak

[Simas 12]

As to the lack of BI participation in discussion of alternative and FOSS OS platform -- look no further then this thread to see the sort of petty sophomoric Windows vs. Linux diatribe that is perpetuated even in this thread, or look at a few other Linux threads to see how far off the charts it goes...

There is nothing to discuss, really. The reality is that for Arma to get on Linux - BI has to rewrite EVERYTHING. The graphics engine, the sound engine, even the tools (they are using MFC for GUI right now).

Now imagine they actually did that.. what would they gain? They will get their game on an OS that has 1% desktop market share..

As to the Troll posts: if you're going to troll a thread considerably off-topic, only have a few posts on the forum, and are sincerely interested in the off topic subject matter you're challenging you should: 1) do so politely, 2) extend the same consideration you're asking for and answer questions that were asked first, 3) make at least a modicum of effort to stay on topic. If he's sincerely interested he can PM me any time, apologize, and I'll offer up the requite information -- I doubt that this will ever happen...

So let me get this straight: you make an extraordinary claim, we ask you for a source, you fail to provide the source, you call us trolls and request an apology?

Edited May 20, 2013 by simast

[GottyPlays 10]

you'll learn that the Windows Aero compositer uses OpenGL and (shockingly) can confer as much as a 50% performance hit to OpenGL games and applications unless it's disabled ...

:j:

aha!

so that's why american mgee's alice runs like crap on my new pc! thanks pal! i will try to disable aero!

im not sarcastic eh

[mc-evergreen79 10]

My problem is that in this situation I would boycott the game because I swore to myself I would never buy a game without linux port anymore. But Arma is Arma and dayz is dayz! Both games are the best games ever made and the truth is that if they only had a port for mac, I would buy a 2000$ mac to play them. Anyway, please Bohemia, make it at least playable with wine!

[hoak 0]

There is nothing to discuss, really.

Then why do you insist in trolling with the incessant off-topic, hostile and petty digression? You were politely invited to take this out of this thread and discuss it privately -- if you're are sincere in your interest to be informed you'd have done so rather then this repeat demonstration of baiting, moral cowardice, and public ego remonstration.

The reality is that for Arma to get on Linux - BI has to rewrite EVERYTHING.

That is neither, 'reality', a fact, or even accurate: 1) the game engine is quite portable and portions of it have already been ported to other platforms, 2) only the render backplane has to be rewritten (if it isn't already), 3) BI has at least two third-party offers to do the work for them...

Now imagine they actually did that.. what would they gain? They will get their game on an OS that has 1% desktop market share..

This is just more of your petty sophomoric informal fallacies: if ported ArmA would have Linux game preeminence on a platform that owns over 87% of PC market-share and over 92% PC market-share licensure (Steam), a fast path to OSX and Android (a derivative the engine has already been ported to Android and more exotic hardware in the case of VBS).

So let me get this straight: you make an extraordinary claim, we ask you for a source, you fail to provide the source, you call us trolls and request an apology?

More informal fallacy; this is a forum with rules -- one of them is to post on topic, no where is it mandated that I must satisfy and educate your ignorance... You, are trolling and being self-indulgent, you were invited to do this privately so the thread could move forward on topic. I'm not 'requesting an apology', I'm demanding it as a prerequisite to my indulging your petty bullshit privately and tutoring you. You haven't referenced any of your own 'extraordinary claims'; but they're off topic and obviously no one gives a shit...

As well nothing you've said is a rational, cogent, and mentally organized objection to the premise of this thread, or what I've added to it:

While I can understand a GNU Linux port of ArmA III being a low priority at this time; Microsoft will be abandoning DirectX on Windows, eventually move what remains of Windows gaming to a walled Games For Windows Live garden that's everything awful about Apple and Google with none of the good. Then there's Steam's concomitant move to Linux which would make it prudent for BI to at least be taking a much more visible and serious look at alternative OS gaming platforms.

One of the Developers at Phoronix offered to port ArmA II, at no cost if I recall correctly and he has an outstanding reputation for doing exactly this sort of work. Perhaps if ArmA III has moved the BI code base forward substantially BI might feel safe enough to consider a Linux port of an older game like OFP, ArmA, or ArmA II just to get things moving... Heck, with a FOSS OS BI could fully integrate ArmA, DRM, Tools and Website in it's own custom OS fully standardizing the platform and obviating an enormous range of support costs, circumvent cheating and piracy in one fell handsome custom swoop.

What's more this last, i.e. the cost of an integrated game OS and game engine as an 'appliance' has already been defrayed by free and open projects like SuSE Studio, which would, in the long haul making developing future ArmA games not only more secure, uniform, and standardized but far less expensive then developing for Windows...

Even Matt Booty is iterating another version of Microsoft's message that PC gaming on Windows is not only not a priority, but will be in their parlance 'depreciated'. That the likes of Valve, Epic, Crytek, id Software and other key 3D render technology Developers get the message loud and clear that Microsoft not only doesn't want 'AAA' game franchises on the PC that compete with MexBox iterations of the franchise; Microsoft wants to deemphasis the PC as a gaming platform of 'any preeminence' in the foreseeable future...

Microsoft won't cater to 'traditional desktop PC gamers' with first-party strategy

by Andrew Yoon, May 22, 2013 5:30am PDT

Related Topics – Microsoft, PC, Xbox One

Remember when Microsoft used to make games for PC? With their Xbox business thriving, the company has long shifted focus away from PC gamers. That attitude will continue in the Xbox One generation, it appears.

At its Xbox One reveal event, the company announced 15 exclusives coming to the console in its first year. When asked if PC gamers could possibly get access to some of that content, Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms told us that "the Windows 8 gamer is certainly going to participate in some of that content," but not in the way you might expect or want.

Speaking on Microsoft's strategy on Windows 8 gaming, Booty said that "we have got everything from very, very casual games, like our very much improved and reimagined Solitaire, all the way to graphically complicated games like The Harvest."

But I interrupted him, pointing out that people could argue that The Harvest is not AAA-tier like Gears of War. I asked if he felt that, from a first-party perspective, Microsoft's focus on Windows 8 is on the lower-end.

"We're talking about console games, but there could be some franchises that also end up with a PC game," Booty responded. "When I think about more connected experiences across those platforms, it's things that show up within that family of devices where we've got Xbox Live, like Windows Phone and Windows 8," and "not what you might consider a more traditional desktop PC game."

Is it any wonder that Valve is working at break-neck speed and pouring billions $ U.S. into the Linux Steam platform and Source engine? It's not unreasonable to assume BI might see the wisdom in this as well, if not platform agnostic independence if they haven't already, and just aren't commenting for what should by now be rather obvious reasons.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Hoak

[Simas 12]

2) only the render backplane has to be rewritten (if it isn't already)

XAudio2 - Windows only

X3DAudio - Windows only

XInput - Windows only

DirectInput - Windows only

MFC - Windows only

.. only a couple of other libraries you forgot.

And of course, you keep ignoring the colossal amount of work needed to rewrite a DX10/11 game to OpenGL - and more importantly - to maintain both code paths in the future.

This is just more of your petty sophomoric informal fallacies: if ported ArmA would have Linux game preeminence on a platform that owns over 87% of PC market-share and over 92% PC market-share licensure (Steam)

Wait, what? Linux owns over 87% of PC market-share? What world do you live in?

a fast path to OSX and Android (a derivative the engine has already been ported to Android and more exotic hardware in the case of VBS).

Arma 2: Firing Range does not use or is a "derivative" of Real Virtuality engine. They do not share anything in common. Another example of you making an extraordinary claim without any source whatsoever.

And we are not talking about hardware here - the discussion is about another OS.

Even Matt Booty is iterating another version of Microsoft's message that PC gaming on Windows is not only not a priority, but will be in their parlance 'depreciated'. That the likes of Valve, Epic, Crytek, id Software and other key 3D render technology Developers get the message loud and clear that Microsoft not only doesn't want 'AAA' game franchises on the PC that compete with MexBox iterations of the franchise; Microsoft wants to deemphasis the PC as a gaming platform of 'any preeminence' in the foreseeable future...

How long have you been following PC as a gaming platform? The things you describe Microsoft did since 2001 - when the first Xbox came out.

Is it any wonder that Valve is working at break-neck speed and pouring billions $ U.S. into the Linux Steam platform and Source engine? It's not unreasonable to assume BI might see the wisdom in this as well, if not platform agnostic independence if they haven't already, and just aren't commenting for what should by now be rather obvious reasons.

You really don't get why Valve is investing in Linux, do you?

a) Windows Store is the biggest threat to Steam yet (hint: and not because the Windows store is "locked")

b) They want to build their own hardware - ala Steam Box (which can't run Windows out-of-the-shop because of high licensing fees).

Edited May 23, 2013 by simast

[chortles 263]

At last check, the point of the Steam Box concept (an admittedly nebulous thing) is that it can also run Windows, it just won't ship with it... which frankly makes even more sense than the idea of Steam Box being somehow Linux-exclusive.

I'm currently using a desktop of my own with Windows 8 Pro and Ubuntu 13.04 installed alongside each other, I have a wired Xbox 360 controller and a DualShock 3 (with both a mini USB cable and a USB Bluetooth receiver) and the video card would support a HDTV, so I'm already "compliant with the Steam Box concept" other than it not being made by Valve. :p

I can see a Linux version for a future Arma title, but not Arma 3 -- not when the Steamworks announcement suggested that Maruk was holding the devs to a deadline (which gave the thing a tone of "we are out of time") and "not having to maintain separate versions" was specifically a cited factor in the decision to go Steamworks.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Chortles

[hoak 0]

XAudio2 - Windows only

X3DAudio - Windows only

XInput - Windows only

DirectInput - Windows only

MFC - Windows only

.. only a couple of other libraries you forgot.

Are not libraries I forgot, they're Windows APIs and libraries that you don't understand. BI would not need to create the APIs; their analogues already exist in better form on Linux with better documentation and the amount of code required to port existing game assets to use them is small.

In the case of audio XAudio2 and X3DAudio are terrible APIs and are impossibly bad software post-processing and sub-mixing that ArmA Fans have been complaining about and pining for FMOD for years...

And of course, you keep ignoring the colossal amount of work needed to rewrite a DX10/11 game to OpenGL - and more importantly - to maintain both code paths in the future.

No, you don't understand what a render backplane is, or how it's written...

Wait, what? Linux owns over 87% of PC market-share? What world do you live in?

No, you do the waiting, and while you're: learn to read, write and think clearly, understand sentence structure and notice the noun in parenthesis (Steam). The only one implying Linux has 87% market-share is you. You might also make an honest effort at staying on topic -- but clearly those are three concepts that escape you entirely...

You really don't get why Valve is investing in Linux, do you?

Yes, I do; you don't understand how to ask an honest question. And for the record, Steam has no intention of building their own hardware, it will just be a target design that may not even be licensed...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Hoak

[Simas 12]

Are not libraries I forgot, they're Windows APIs and libraries that you don't understand.

DirectX is a Windows API. You are going in circles now.

BI would not need to create the APIs; their analogues already exist in better form on Linux with better documentation and the amount of code required to port existing game assets to use them is small.

Exactly, which is what we are discussing here. You were saying that all that is required for them is a port of their graphics code - I am pointing out that this is simply not true. I am also pretty sure you are not qualified to estimate the time and amount of work required to port existing audio and input systems to other (cross-platform) solutions.

In the case of audio XAudio2 and X3DAudio are terrible APIs and are impossibly bad software post-processing and sub-mixing that ArmA Fans have been complaining about and pining for FMOD for years...

Irrelevant to this discussion. Same as saying that PhysX is terrible and they should have invested in Havok.

No, you don't understand what a render backplane is, or how it's written...

Let's no go there, you will be surprised.

No, you do the waiting, and while you're: learn to read, write and think clearly, understand sentence structure and notice the noun in parenthesis (Steam). The only one implying Linux has 87% market-share is you. You might also make an honest effort at staying on topic -- but clearly those are three concepts that escape you entirely...

The title of this thread is "Arma 3 Linux Version" and we are discussing Linux market-share. How is that offtopic?

What is a PC desktop market-share of Linux? A simple question for you, can you answer it? The numbers are devastating to your arguments, so please don't mask Linux market-share as part of Steam platform coverage to make it sound more impressive.

And for the record, Steam has no intention of building their own hardware, it will just be a target design that may not even be licensed...

Irrelevant as the "target design" will run Steam as a game service and all Valve income is from steam game sales anyway (and not hardware sales).

[Deadfast 43]

I think we got to the point where any further discussion of this topic is a bit beyond the scope of this thread. The intricacies of the Windows API and the market share of various operating systems would be best discussed elsewhere, so let's stop while we're ahead, shall we? :)

[Dwarden 1124]

While I can understand a GNU Linux port of ArmA III being a low priority at this time; Microsoft will be abandoning DirectX on Windows, eventually move what remains of Windows gaming to a walled Games For Windows Live garden that's everything awful about Apple and Google with none of the good. Then there's Steam's concomitant move to Linux which would make it prudent for BI to at least be taking a much more visible and serious look at alternative OS gaming platforms.

One of the Developers at Phoronix offered to port ArmA II, at no cost if I recall correctly and he has an outstanding reputation for doing exactly this sort of work. Perhaps if ArmA III has moved the BI code base forward substantially BI might feel safe enough to consider a Linux port of an older game like OFP, ArmA, or ArmA II just to get things moving... Heck, with a FOSS OS BI could fully integrate ArmA, DRM, Tools and Website in it's own custom OS fully standardizing the platform and obviating an enormous range of support costs, circumvent cheating and piracy in one fell handsome custom swoop.

What's more this last, i.e. the cost of an integrated game OS and game engine as an 'appliance' has already been defrayed by free and open projects like SuSE Studio, which would, in the long haul making developing future ArmA games not only more secure, uniform, and standardized but far less expensive then developing for Windows...

citation? source? definitely not contacted me ...

oh btw. our games works on NIX via WINE ... (A1, A2, OA, TOH, only A3 sort has issues of due to WINE not yet fully supporting DX11) ...

to that heated discussion, MS clearly stated they not abandoning DirectX, they only canceled XNA program (most likely due to new Xbox console naming schemes)

[hoak 0]

The first citation was on your forums and can be found here from 2009 following Svartalf, one of the Developers at LGP that had contacted BI about the possibility of doing a port of ArmA... There was a thread that seems MIA where someone from Phoronix and Svartalf both posted indicating they'd received no reply from BI, with BI Fans speculating that it was because BI would be taking a risk sharing code and assets with an third-party...

It has also been indicated in many leaked Microsoft emails, and by second party reports from Developers that used to work on DirectX -- that DirectX it is no longer under active development... Of course there are stories like this one but if you've been a Parter with, or followed this company for more then a decade you know by now it's good to hedge your bets on Microsoft's mixed, vague, boiler-plate PR messages as very few leaks there are accidental...

Edited May 24, 2013 by Hoak

[Milyardo 10]

citation? source? definitely not contacted me ...

From what I remember it was Svartalf from LGP about the port of the Armed Assault, not ArmA 2, I don't think if free was part of that discussion or not(I doubt it if Svartalf was trying to contract the port for LGP).

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17492

oh btw. our games works on NIX via WINE ... (A1, A2, OA, TOH, only A3 sort has issues of due to WINE not yet fully supporting DX11) ...

Those aren't the only issues, AFAIK, BattleEye regressed a few months ago when BattleEye started using KiUserExceptionDispatcher.

[GottyPlays 10]

The first citation was on your forums and can be found here from 2009 following Svartalf, one of the Developers at LGP that had contacted BI about the possibility of doing a port of ArmA... There was a thread that seems MIA where someone from Phoronix and Svartalf both posted indicating they'd received no reply from BI, with BI Fans speculating that it was because BI would be taking a risk sharing code and assets with an third-party...

It has also been indicated in many leaked Microsoft emails, and by second party reports from Developers that used to work on DirectX -- that DirectX it is no longer under active development... Of course there are stories like this one but if you've been a Parter with, or followed this company for more then a decade you know by now it's good to hedge your bets on Microsoft's mixed, vague, boiler-plate PR messages as very few leaks there are accidental...

xbox 360 lasted almost 7 years, and the new xbox one mounts a dx 11.1 card, do the math

[hoak 0]

xbox 360 lasted almost 7 years, and the new xbox one mounts a dx 11.1 card, do the math

It does not 'mount a card' DirectX or otherwise it incorporates an APU that has some feature parity with AMD GCN 'cards' -- though it is not a 'card', is not the same architecture, and does not offer the same backplane or driver interface as the products from which it was derived...

:eek:

[Simas 12]

It does not 'mount a card' DirectX or otherwise it incorporates an APU that has some feature parity with AMD GCN 'cards' -- though it is not a 'card', is not the same architecture, and does not offer the same backplane or driver interface as the products from which it was derived...

The APU includes a GPU and the "driver interface" and "backplane" is identical to dedicated GPU cards.. stop blabbing. I am pretty sure you understand what GottyPlays meant. Xbox One will use DirectX 11 - quite shockingly considering they are killing the thing, no?

[chortles 263]

I wouldn't be surprised of parts of Microsoft are working at opposite ends to one another inadvertently or not-so-inadvertently.

[Dwarden 1124]

ye well my question was about Arma 2, as I'm not aware of any serious enough offer for actual porting to nix ... (yes, there was plenty of so so offers)

[hoak 0]

The APU includes a GPU and the "driver interface" and "backplane" is identical to dedicated GPU cards.. stop blabbing. I am pretty sure you understand what GottyPlays meant. Xbox One will use DirectX 11 - quite shockingly considering they are killing the thing, no?

Incorrect, it's a custom AMD part, with custom features -- the GPU core is not compatible with any of the E, A, and C series AMD APUs driver interface.

ye well my question was about Arma 2, as I'm not aware of any serious enough offer for actual porting to nix ... (yes, there was plenty of so so offers)

Dwarden, I think you are right, it has been so long since the offer came over the bow, I'd long lost track... But if there's anything out there still standing in the way of ArmA Linux offers it could be a great revenue opportunity for BI to get some preeminence on the Steam/Linux platform, leverage the enthusiasm and commitment of Linux Developers, renew and leverage the value the enormous ArmA asset wealth BI has via its Fans, Mod Developers and mod support sites, as well offer a good test and asset hedge against what may loom in the way of future licensing costs, limitations and restrictions that may prevail by developing exclusively for Microsoft.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Hoak

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

If a third party did end up porting Arma 2 and Arma 3 to linux, I'd have no more reason to run windows.

[eddieck 10]

If a third party did end up porting Arma 2 and Arma 3 to linux, I'd have no more reason to run windows.

Same.

[hoak 0]

For many just a port of the original ArmA to *nix would be the 'killer game' as far as the GNU *nix platform was concerned. It appears that few posting to this thread have been around long enough to experience the quality, depth, and sheer volume of content, mod assets and Fan created tools for ArmA that in many cases raise it to feature and aesthetic parity with ArmA 2, in some regards ArmA 3, and some even surpassing that...

As well, the many development forks in the BI Real Virtuality engine could benefit from concurrent Linux port work on the RV2 iteration of the engine and the kind of of source level exploration that comes out of a full-on port, even if these iterations of the engine are never ported. Few Developer/Publishers understand long term, deferred gratification and benefit that comes out of 'slow burn' support for a dedicated productive community the way BI does, so this would seem a perfect fit.

The win:win benefit of co-opting Linux Fans and Developers may be appear to offer small return due to the apparent size of the audience; but really productive talent has always been just a tiny minority of people that actually get real work done and in turn gets people excited and things moving en masse...

Edited May 26, 2013 by Hoak

[mc-evergreen79 10]

If a third party did end up porting Arma 2 and Arma 3 to linux, I'd have no more reason to run windows.

Same for me.

[xyberviri 1]

I can not for the life of me figure out this anti windows BS that the gaming community has developed over the years, everyone who "hates" windows complains about how many great games they wont ever get to play because there is no way to run it on their system.

You don't have to use windows 24/7, you can use it when you want to game, Some one that refuses to install windows on its own partition just to play games for windows because their system is too pure to have windows on it, should also go and just use dial up because analog is better than digital anyway.

You all forget the Win:Lose, you take an entire team which may or may not have the skill needed to make a awesome game in linux and you end up with a crappy game for both windows and linux, then what happens when "the killer gamer" is "dead" because of bugs.

You can Optimize or Compromise you can't do both.

this entire thread and all this going back and forth when the solution is simple: install windows on its own partition and setup grub to boot into 7 when you need to play arma, otherwise go back to recompiling the kernel in your spare time. All this time and effort spent tring to figure out ways to get around the fact that your not using windows to get it working. you could spend a couple of hours install windows, install ms security essentials,install your *nix favored browser and skip both java and flash and your done, infact your system is now already more secure than 99% of normal windows users.

If a third party did end up porting Arma 2 and Arma 3 to linux, I'd have no more reason to run windows.

I think that goes with out saying for pretty much any gamer.

Edited May 29, 2013 by xyberviri