In the future apparently human beings are not subject to inertia or weight.

[NacroxNicke 11]

Please, all people, go to the editor, put yourself in the map, go to controls and put Mouse sensivity to the max (and mouse smoothness empty), go prone and start spinning on the ground.

Go back and reply.

[johncage 30]

way ahead of you. actually i have mouse sensitivity set just below half and i'm still spinning around like a top.

i'm fine with cursor aim, but please when prone, have it set to deadaim or restricted in some way. in 3rd perosn you don't even see your character move its arms, just legs. that's some supreme upper body strength right there.

[PN11A 2]

serious question, why does this matter? I rarely find myself in a position trying to do a 180 while prone. Is this a pvp thing or something?

[chortles 263]

Wouldn't be surprised if BI only did up one "soldier size" so that they would only have to do one set of animations for that soldier size, what with only two mo-cap actors that we know of (Smookie and Rocket) doing them.

[ak1287 1]

serious question, why does this matter? I rarely find myself in a position trying to do a 180 while prone. Is this a pvp thing or something?

I think for most people, it's an immersion thing; also, yeah, it could be a PVP thing.

Myself, I don't care that much: I know this isn't the finished product, so I'm not going to start running around with my umbrella yelling 'The sky is falling.' I can see the complaint, and understand that it happens, but I can't bring myself to really get upset about it. If that's the price I have to pay to get past Arma 2's clunkiness, I'll pay it.

[NacroxNicke 11]

Just let me make it clear, the new move system is great, it even makes AI looks more smarter, some things needs to be tuned to make it more balanced, like combat-pace running speeds while crouching, or side-move while in prone (it's too slow compared to all other animations).

I think the main grip that most of people is worried about, is the speed of combat that now has taken place, it's no-near like COD, but it's faster than ARMA 2 and before, so in CQB now you better have speed rather than a good position with good cover arcs. Speed situations are very dangerous, that's why in COD there is a frag fest in every corner, and that's why there is people that think that ARMA 3 will become like that, but all depends of the situation really. If there is a massive TDM with no respawn, it's highly unlikely that some guy will go downroad zigzagging while shooting without ironsights, the problem is that now zigzagging has become very effective and you can change between directions very fast without penalties, helping to the gun-running mentality, but I'm really aware that it's nothing really unchangeable, heck, I even remember that before every gun has their "dexterity" value for that.

[chortles 263]

I think the main grip that most of people is worried about, is the speed of combat that now has taken place, it's no-near like COD, but it's faster than ARMA 2 and before, so in CQB now you better have speed rather than a good position with good cover arcs.

I cannot help but believe that "faster than ARMA 2 and before" (though not COD) is intentional... which, if that's the case, would make complaining about the direction (as opposed to the amount) a moot point.

Speed situations are very dangerous, that's why in COD there is a frag fest in every corner, and that's why there is people that think that ARMA 3 will become like that, but all depends of the situation really. If there is a massive TDM with no respawn, it's highly unlikely that some guy will go downroad zigzagging while shooting without ironsights,

I pretty much agree with this that "it all depends on the situation really"; as others have said, respawn/no respawn (or inconvenience-of-getting-back-into-the-action) does affect player behavior, and I dare suggest possibly moreso than "moving like a shooter?" The marketing hype and word-of-mouth seems to say "moves like a shooter but more hardcore" anyway... :p

Truthbetold though I think that "shooting without ironsights" has been pretty much a mental image/stereotype about COD, especially considering that as I said before (in another thread?) the majority of COD multiplayer footage I've seen specifically is "maneuver around with sprint/jog til you spot an enemy, and if you have the initiative/time then aim down sights" (which unlike Arma 3 forces walk speed)... reminds me of Arma 2. :icon_twisted::lol: "The COD limitation" is that this is all taking place at CQB distances, whereas Arma 3 is fundamentally different in this respect, cover is still important, fire arcs are still important, the AI is more tactical at times than some COD players... in my case, I once played an Insurgency session where I ended up doing both 'traditional' outdoors hundreds-of-meters combat against OPFOR AI infantry and at one point ended up inside a guard tower in Camp Rogain popping up from cover for "peek shots" at individual OPFOR infantry.

(Disclosure re: that Insurgency -- 15-second respawn, but in my case maybe it was because I never set a rally point, but I only respawned back at Stratis Air Base, so each time my character was killed I'd keep having to wait for a pickup if my group's Ka-60 or MH-9 was still off-base.)

In that sense, the difference from COD remains strong; technically all someone has to do to create "COD style CQB-only TDM" -- emphasis on CQB-only -- is to "magically" wall off Agia Marina, Camp Rogain, Stratis Air Base, Kamino... basically any "built up area" on the map... because without that walling off Arma 3's full potential for combat ranges completely surpasses COD.

[dayglow 2]

Prone spin, side strafe, etc are unrealistic movements that exist in games simply because they can't animate and creat controls for the myriad of movements people can do in real life. No a person can't spin 180 while prone, but someone can roll on their back and shoot between their legs, roll on their side and do a tuck maneuver, or many different actions to quickly face/shoot somewhere which would be impossible to animate and create controls for. Same for strafing vs turning hips and moving in real life.

To put real world restrictions on the movement in the game while being impossible to do the countless things that someone can do would cripple the movement and controls. There has to some give so that the smoothness and feeling of movement approaches real life. Past installments of the series have always lacked in smooth movement and control. I think Arma3 is going in the right direction in bringing the feeling if being able to move smoothly to the game. Can a twitch player take advantage of it? Some what, but I think proper teamwork and tactics will defeat a run & gun fps'er every time.

[Fuse 1]

I think proper teamwork and tactics will defeat a run & gun fps'er every time.

Is there any game where this isn't true?

[dnk 13]

I think the main grip that most of people is worried about, is the speed of combat that now has taken place, it's no-near like COD, but it's faster than ARMA 2

No, it isn't. It's actually a bit slower for some of the paces. There's a video in this thread I made comparing the two games. The results:

Crouch:

4% faster in A3

Run:

5% slower in A3

Tactical Pace:

30% slower in A3

Sprint:

5% faster in A3

[-=Grunt=- 10]

I believe it's just the speed of the animation. Character/avatar animations in ArmA 3 seem to be faster than ArmA 2's so it gives people the impression that running is faster.

[Leon86 13]

the movement speed is fine, the turn rate however is unlimited, that's not good. The easiest way to fix that and keep the "direct feel" to mouse control is to decouple view, body and aiming direction. Not sure how much work something like that would be, maybe not that much, aiming deadzone does something similar.

[Wolfstriked 11]

For me a fix would be no sprinting on large inclines and same with going down.But different to A2 is that you can still run up and down steep inclines while in A2 you get forced to walking speeds.

[pd3 25]

The solution to the turning/aiming speed issue is to add a proper inertial/physics system, I personally would prefer non-shoulder aimed weapons to have a deadzone as nobody turns their body perfectly relative to their weapon otherwise, we're not bloody robots or mechs.

Honestly, I think it's pretty embarrassing that BI would go for the easy buck like this.

Yeah, I get that people found A2 to be "too clunky", but adding a proper inertia/physics simulation to weapon handling would limit the speed slightly, AND ideally if the mouse is moved quickly, result in "over aim". Which is going to happen proportional to the speed you're moving.

At this point I highly doubt BI is going to implement something like that, although they really should. This game plays like counterstrike as it is and that's just sad.

If there's not even a way to implement something mod wise that could be better than what currently is in operation for A3 aiming wise, I think I'll probably end up giving this one a miss, along with any subsequent iteration that continues this trend.

Sad to say considering A2 is one of my all time favorite games, but maybe this is just how the mil-sim genre dies, with a bunch of duncey millennials crying that simulations aren't "fun".

This is pretty much my bit on this subject, I apologize for the late reply.

[Mac 1]

Its a shame but judging by how close we are to beta I doubt that we will see this in A3

[2nd ranger 282]

Sadly Marek said at E3 that they tried adding inertia, but that it was more frustrating than anything else, so looks like those slowing down/direction changing animations you can see in the animation viewer won't be used. Like many other issues it's probably due to the old animation system itself. I imagine it just felt too clunky.

Edited June 18, 2013 by 2nd Ranger

[chortles 263]

Sadly Maruk said at E3 that they tried adding inertia, but that it was more frustrating than anything else, so looks like those slowing down/direction changing animations you can see in the animation viewer won't be used. Like many other issues it's probably due to the old animation system itself. I imagine it just felt too clunky.

Link/source on this?

[pd3 25]

Sadly Maruk said at E3 that they tried adding inertia, but that it was more frustrating than anything else, so looks like those slowing down/direction changing animations you can see in the animation viewer won't be used. Like many other issues it's probably due to the old animation system itself. I imagine it just felt too clunky.

It's doable, unless they hit some critical snag in their engine, which I wholly doubt.

the bigger problem that they probably don't want to admit to is that it will significantly increase the system requirements for the game if each weapon has an "always on" inertial physics system.

If Trespasser could do a very rudimentary version of this back in 1998, there's no way it couldn't be done now.

I personally think it has more to do with not upsetting those suffering a case of dunning kruger than anything else.

Okay I lied, I didn't think anyone would actually reply.

[chortles 263]

It's doable, unless they hit some critical snag in their engine, which I wholly doubt.

Ironically, the infamous clunk and notorious lack of "polish" of the prior games is exactly what leads me to find "hit some critical snag in their engine" perfectly believable.

the bigger problem that they probably don't want to admit to is that it will significantly increase the system requirements for the game if each weapon has an "always on" inertial physics system.

In fairness, "significant" is subjective... but if it was "too significant/too much a climb", then that's a valid reason too, especially with all the pressures on "optimization" as-is.

[pd3 25]

Ironically, the infamous clunk and notorious lack of "polish" of the prior games is exactly what leads me to find "hit some critical snag in their engine" perfectly believable.In fairness, "significant" is subjective... but if it was "too significant/too much a climb", then that's a valid reason too, especially with all the pressures on "optimization" as-is.

Simply put, you wouldn't need "animations" as it were to achieve this unless there's something seriously f-ed and hard coded into the engine that doesn't allow for certain things.

The entire model for an inertial system hinges upon the dead zone model though, basically requiring routines dedicated to calculating the speed at which the weapon is moving, which would still simulate a "negative acceleration effect", because you couldn't simply stop your aim on a dime.

Think of it like a rubber banding effect, twitchy children are going to hate it regardless because their hand movements would not directly translate into the desired motion. These new players don't like having to think, it's really no simpler than that.

The area in which it would cause the most problems is probably multiplayer as that would result in a hell of a lot more relative information being sent to and from server to host.

So long as this remains an issue though, it might as well be Quake 2 I'm playing. A2 provided a sense of danger that didn't involve being circle strafed or any other hokey FPS trope that is common to the genre.

[chortles 263]

2nd Ranger, did Maruk say that in a video?

Simply put, you wouldn't need "animations" as it were to achieve this unless there's something seriously f-ed and hard coded into the engine that doesn't allow for certain things.

I'll just note that the point of my remark was to suggest that I'm actually predisposed to believe that "there's something seriously f-ed and hard coded into the engine that doesn't allow for certain things."

As far as the rest of your reply, let's just say that the current deadzone implementation would not help, and if your idea of an inertial system is dependent on Arma 2-style aiming deadzone... then yeah, that's another reason that "it's not happening".

[aoshi 1]

then people complained of stiff controls, and then complained the controls very responsive

Edited June 18, 2013 by aoshi

[Masharra 10]

then people complained of stiff controls, and then complained the controls very responsive

I doubt you will find a post of me complaining of stiff controls. so keep your people talk to yourself

[pd3 25]

Ugh: http://tlbclan.com/board/threads/16684-Battlefield-3-Players-I-strongly-Recommend-you-Get-Arma-3

"I will say this Arma 3 is everything Arma 2 is and is not and Arma 3 completly Raises the bar on Team Based War, Even A season BF 3 Veteran Will be able to pick up on the game as they have dumbed down the Simulator to allow as they put it F.N.G to buy and play this game the game is also not FX intensive if you can Run Arma 2 which is really old like BF 2 old you can run Arma 3 vic versa same if you can run bf 3 you can run ARMA 3. the battles are so intense that Your heart just races when you hear that Whip and crack of a bullet zoom by you."

Confirmed for apes.

These are the kinds of people flooding our community.

I would say that I'm pretty much finished with BI, as I think a lot of people should as well.

Kind of sad to see this company lose their way so badly, but I guess I'll be on the lookout for another upstart that cares about filling a market niche instead of selling out to the aforementioned. Considering how close to beta this game is, and considering the time constraints/price point (33 bucks), it has shovelware written all over it.

aoshi, it isn't as if they're changing their minds, we've simply had a pretty heavy influx of, well, what I would consider genetic detritus polluting the design philosophy of this game.

[R0adki11 3945]

then people complained of stiff controls, and then complained the controls very responsive

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