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jblackrupert

Battlefield 4

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Check out the dislikes on the latest Battlefield channel video.

Voice in the video is one of the COD commentators who were invited to the preview.

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I think they have even more of that. Same written out PR talk. Coincidence the

also specifically mentions a "emotional relation" towards the characters from the 17m run and gun gameplay and EA using it as a main selling point during interviews? I am sorry but that's just pathetic... You are perfectly fine to give such statement after playing the whole cinematic campaign but after only this demo? Sigh...

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All those COD commentator videos also appear to be unlisted on Youtube.

Guess EA is aware of the reaction to them.

Several of them actually claimed what they watched was LIVE realtime gameplay

and some declared "Ships and subs for the first time in a Battlefield game!!!"

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------

eSports players with some opinions about EA/DICE and Battlefield direction.

Edited by jblackrupert

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All Most of that doesn't make sense :confused:

Obviously it didn't to you, that will explain what you said next.

At any rate, FL was not trying to belittle anyone,

FPDR I never stated he was trying to belittle someone. It was you I stated it to. This is the second time you've misread my post.

Edited by Haystack15

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Obviously it didn't to you, that will explain what you said next.

FPDR I never stated he was trying to belittle someone. It was you I stated it to. This is the second time you've misread my post.

The facepalm should be directed at your grammar because what you wrote doesn't really make sense.

I simply stated a fact - there was no belittling involved.

Let's just leave it there shall we ;)

Edited by BangTail

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Still doesn't give you the right to say developers who choose what they've chosen should be shunned.

Just lol. I'll shun whomever the hell i like thank you very much :)

Actually I'd use worse language but Im afraid you may spontaneously combust. Shunning is indeed a very serious sentence...in either the Amish community or certain parts of Indonesia and now hopefully I can bring the full brunt of it to force errant software developers back into the light. Thank you for reinforcing it's brutal nature.

Bad example to use... I don't watch any sports...

Whats there to belittle? You get in, grab a burger and eat. If you didn't like the way the food tasted, find something else.

Even if I've found something to belittle about, I don't go to other people and say their cook should be put in jail for choosing to cook with a wooden or plastic spatula than a metal one.

Don't care for politics too much as well...

You've missed the entirety of the point -it doesn't matter if YOU are interested in those exact topics -it was a rhetorical question for society.

My goodness, I've never stated you don't have the right to say if it is a bad thing or a good thing. However acting as if you're the programming police and saying people or developers whom choose scripted bots over AI is something that should be shunned for, is something you shouldn't do.

There is no authority in the world of programming, so quit trying to get those whom choose scripted bot punished socially.

The 'authority' are the consumers. No matter how much you may not like it -we're going to both praise and blame the product delivered and may also *gasp* criticise the latest developer trends!

Again, Skyrim is a different game from Arma. Causal Arcade vs Simulator.

Your grasp of the obtuse is riveting! Again this was a statement directed at the current trend of AAA titles ignoring the progression of AI.

So in terms Causal Arcade devoplers will rather choose scripted bots because they might see no need to use them in a causal game while when it comes to simulators, developers will rather choose to create AI.

A very understanding trend there.

The problem is that by not further developing their MP bots -BF3 actor bots are worse than ever -because the technology to further better them -ignored. Many simulators are also letting AI go by the wayside so no, it's not just BF3 that Im blaming. I've said my piece, no reason to continue this discussion tho feel free to respond should you wish.

@jackblackrupert

We are the only ones complaining about the direction of Battlefield and because this is an Arma forum we have don't play anything else.

Not really true, obviously I do prefer certain styles of games over others but I really enjoyed BF2 and probably would have like the futuristic one as well had I tried it. BF3 sucked for me :(

Edited by froggyluv

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One more from the EA sponsored COD Youtube commentator Whiteboy7thst

45 hours playing Battlefield 3 and he gets a video uploaded to the official Battlefield Youtube channel [set as private after all the thumbs down]

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/Whiteboy7thst/stats/176498715/ps3

Only 7 more months or so to go, should be sooo exciting!

Edited by jblackrupert

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The facepalm should be directed at your grammar because what you wrote doesn't really make sense.

I simply stated a fact - there was no belittling involved.

Let's just leave it there shall we ;)

And now you resort to insulting grammar, which goes to show, you don't know what the heck is going on, and should of stayed out it from the start. froggyluv understands it, so in terms It's not my grammar, it's because you can't read things that go beyond 5 sentences, let alone your own post...

I simply stated a fact - there was no belittling involved.

Wrong, but you also stated

At any rate, FL was not trying to belittle anyone

And If i read that sentence correctly, you basically said: "froggyluv was not trying to belittle anyone"

Unless the "FL" means something else, then please... elaborate on what it means. Or is it a habit of yours to randomly stick capital characters in your sentence? Because that doesn't say proper grammar aswell...

--------------------------

Just lol. I'll shun whomever the hell i like thank you very much :)

Actually I'd use worse language but Im afraid you may spontaneously combust. Shunning is indeed a very serious sentence...in either the Amish community or certain parts of Indonesia and now hopefully I can bring the full brunt of it to force errant software developers back into the light. Thank you for reinforcing it's brutal nature.

No problem. I think anyone would hate to be shunned in today's modern world.

You've missed the entirety of the point -it doesn't matter if YOU are interested in those exact topics -it was a rhetorical question for society.

The 'authority' are the consumers. No matter how much you may not like it -we're going to both praise and blame the product delivered and may also *gasp* criticise the latest developer trends!

Like I said, it's completely fine for you to say you don't like this game for such and such reasons. By all means call the game trash if it best fits your thoughts about it. I even said myself battlefield 3 wasn't a great game for me when talking to others about it. But putting all game developers in a ditch and burying them just because they chosen scripted bots over AI is something that shouldn't happen. The programming world is a free world and developers shouldn't have to be told to use this and this because its what some people would like.

Your grasp of the obtuse is riveting! Again this was a statement directed at the current trend of AAA titles ignoring the progression of AI.

Which there is nothing wrong with them doing that. There are plenty more working fields that are developing AI. The gaming industry isn't the only one lending a hand. It wasn't the one that created the topic too. So why should the be forced to keep pursuing it or be punished if they don't?

Edited by Haystack15

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Never had a BF title till BF3, and since I rebuit my machine a few months back I havn't bothered reinstalling. I found the experience too gimiky and totaly meh and not worth the EA/Origin hog of time and bandwidth. Add that impression to the fact that I now have A3 and the feedback from you guys sugesting BF4 is actualy BF3.5 i'll not get any closer to BF4 than this post.

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Once again froggyluv completely misunderstands how DICE works, they are in fact perfectly good developers who are earning their keep by doing exactly what EA is paying them to... the nature of what DICE is paying them to do is the problem. :p

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Never had a BF title till BF3, and since I rebuit my machine a few months back I havn't bothered reinstalling. I found the experience too gimiky and totaly meh and not worth the EA/Origin hog of time and bandwidth. Add that impression to the fact that I now have A3 and the feedback from you guys sugesting BF4 is actualy BF3.5 i'll not get any closer to BF4 than this post.

It's not bad if you stay off the 64 man servers and stick to the few decent maps they have.

Even Metro [!!!!] is fun if you play with just handful of people with Friendly fire on.

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And now you resort to insulting grammar, which goes to show, you don't know what the heck is going on, and should of stayed out it from the start. froggyluv understands it, so in terms It's not my grammar, it's because you can't read things that go beyond 5 sentences, let alone your own post...

Actually, I never insulted you, I stated a fact - your grammar was hard for me to understand.

Wrong, but you also stated

No, not wrong at all. I know what I meant and I was not trying to belittle you (maybe crossed wires on both sides)

And If i read that sentence correctly, you basically said: "froggyluv was not trying to belittle anyone"

Unless the "FL" means something else, then please... elaborate on what it means.

Why even bring this up when you knew perfectly well what it meant :rolleyes:

I'll post anywhere I like on this public forum.

If you're not comfortable with that, may I politely suggest that you leave (or simply stop telling others where they should or should not post).

Now in the interests of keeping this on topic, and as I said before, lets just leave it here shall we, there is no point in bickering :D

On Topic: I can't agree with you as far as Devs not being punished for their choices/implementations.

That is the nature of the beast, some people will be happy, and others will not.

The one thing that you can be assured of is that the unhappy punters will be the more vocal ones.

---------- Post added at 22:15 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------

It's not bad if you stay off the 64 man servers and stick to the few decent maps they have.

Even Metro [!!!!] is fun if you play with just handful of people with Friendly fire on.

I always find the 64 player maps way too chaotic.

Especially with the cheating etc.

32 or less has always yielded the best experience for me.

Edited by BangTail

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Actually, I never insulted you, I stated a fact - your grammar was hard to understand.

In which, I told you the reason why it was hard to understand. Which is why I suggested you stay out of it.

It would make sense to most people for someone to not respond to what they don't understand. If you're not like one of those people to do such, (Which there is no doubt in my mind you aren't) You would ask what it meant instead of trying to belittle the person by telling everyone to not take him seriously.

You came into it from a bad angle to began with. Then furthered yourself by saying you can't understand it when it wasn't directed to you from the start.

Now in the interests of keeping this on topic and as I said before, lets just leave it here, shall we?

If you wanted to keep it on topic, then you should of said something different from the start.

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In which, I told you the reason why it was hard to understand. Which is why I suggested you stay out of it.

It would make sense to most people for someone to not to respond to what they don't understand. If you're not like one of those people to do such, (Which there is no doubt in my mind you aren't) You would ask what it meant instead of trying to belittle the person by telling everyone to not take him seriously.

You came into it from a bad angle to began with. Then furthered yourself by saying you can't understand it when it wasn't directed to you from the start.

If you wanted to keep it on topic, then you should of said something different from the start.

My original comment was very tongue in cheek but unfortunately intonation can be difficult on the internet.

Since I can see you are going to continue with the puerile character assassination, I'll just add you to the ignore pile so we can all move on.

Cheers

Edited by BangTail

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Once again froggyluv completely misunderstands how DICE works, they are in fact perfectly good developers who are earning their keep by doing exactly what EA is paying them to... the nature of what DICE is paying them to do is the problem. :p

Hey man, plenty of good musical acts have done/are doing the same thing -selling out for money. It is and always will happen yet there will always be vocal critics who don't like. I understand it - I just choose to shun it :)

/frogs

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Hey man, plenty of good musical acts have done/are doing the same thing -selling out for money. It is and always will happen yet there will always be vocal critics who don't like. I understand it - I just choose to shun it :)

/frogs

Ditto.

Wanting to make a profit is fine in my book but compromising everything for that profit is absolutely unacceptable to me.

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Once again froggyluv completely misunderstands how DICE works, they are in fact perfectly good developers who are earning their keep by doing exactly what EA is paying them to... the nature of what DICE is paying them to do is the problem. :p

But how exactly do we know exactly if what the direction battlefield 4 is going to isn't the original DICE team? Is there an interview of one of their original team members about it? All I know they could be just doing the orders making another battlefield, with no specifics on what to do or add.

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It's not bad if you stay off the 64 man servers and stick to the few decent maps they have.

Even Metro [!!!!] is fun if you play with just handful of people with Friendly fire on.

The funny thing is that even Metro can and has been just fine at higher-than-console player counts, and the dividing line between "still fun player counts" and "Metro 64" is surprisingly high... though I'll admit that I'm uncertain as to whether "no explosives" server rules actually help or not, since then it can be GPMGs instead of "walls of explosions" acting as the new "lock down" method.

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But how exactly do we know exactly if what the direction battlefield 4 is going to isn't the original DICE team? Is there an interview of one of their original team members about it? All I know they could be just doing the orders making another battlefield, with no specifics on what to do or add.

Dude, EA.

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froggyluv, BangTail, it's not selling out if you were never in it for the art in the first place. :p Though I guess I mean Patrick Bach by that remark, considering what was previously said about the internal divisions/tensions within DICE... and:

Dude, EA.
This, you two.
It's not bad if you stay off the 64 man servers and stick to the few decent maps they have.

Even Metro [!!!!] is fun if you play with just handful of people with Friendly fire on.

The funny thing is that even Metro can and has been just fine at higher-than-console player counts, and the dividing line between "still fun player counts" and "Metro 64" is surprisingly high... though I'll admit that I'm uncertain as to whether "no explosives" server rules actually help or not, since then it can be GPMGs instead of "walls of explosions" acting as the new "lock down" method.

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froggyluv, BangTail, it's not selling out if you were never in it for the art in the first place. :p Though I guess I mean Patrick Bach by that remark, considering what was previously said about the internal divisions/tensions within DICE... and

Can't argue with that ;)

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Hahaha yeah that's what I ended up thinking after reading your and froggyluv's responses and what I meant by earlier replies that were basically saying "you guys are thinking about this the wrong way"... my quoting Slant Six was supposed to reveal what I meant, though Smurf's own response was more concise and to-the-point.

I mean, let's put it this way: why are you guys filtering your view of any game devs out there through your view of BI and your priorities as a consumer? Slant Six's quote should have told you that from a dev studio-with-associated-publisher standpoint, there isn't a direct game-player-and-developer relationship. DICE won't be shunned, on the contrary they'll be rewarded, and deservingly so, they've more than done their job well... what you have to realize is that, as Slant Six's quote should have told you, DICE's customer is not you the video gamer... DICE's customer is EA, and they do their job well. ;)

Oddly enough, now I'm left reminded of all the sheer Internet tears shed on these forums over a bunch of the changes in Arma 3 compared to Arma 2, the fears of "COD/BF"-ization, hell at least one self-admitted drunkpost bemoaning the lack of a "resistance force" against the "influx of casuals", and the accusations flung on these forums of BI having gone the way of DICE and EA... really funny in hindsight. :lol: Not least because of what Maruk has alluded to in the past about having had to grow as a publisher, and the seemingly-confused-and-indecisive-for-months official response to the DayZ phenomenon before the standalone announcement, the troubles behind Arma 3 development, his decision to 'request' that the devs "do all that we can to release by 2013", the Steamworks announcement, BI's own forays into social media... and I think for the first time really both learning and manifesting "what it means to be a not-so-niche-anymore developer-and-publisher".

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Hahaha yeah that's what I ended up thinking after reading your and froggyluv's responses and what I meant by earlier replies that were basically saying "you guys are thinking about this the wrong way"... my quoting Slant Six was supposed to reveal what I meant, though Smurf's own response was more concise and to-the-point.

I mean, let's put it this way: why are you guys filtering your view of any game devs out there through your view of BI and your priorities as a consumer? Slant Six's quote should have told you that from a dev studio-with-associated-publisher standpoint, there isn't a direct game-player-and-developer relationship. DICE won't be shunned, on the contrary they'll be rewarded, and deservingly so, they've more than done their job well... what you have to realize is that, as Slant Six's quote should have told you, DICE's customer is not you the video gamer... DICE's customer is EA, and they do their job well. ;)

Oddly enough, now I'm left reminded of all the sheer Internet tears shed on these forums over a bunch of the changes in Arma 3 compared to Arma 2, the fears of "COD/BF"-ization, hell at least one self-admitted drunkpost bemoaning the lack of a "resistance force" against the "influx of casuals", and the accusations flung on these forums of BI having gone the way of DICE and EA... really funny in hindsight. :lol: Not least because of what Maruk has alluded to in the past about having had to grow as a publisher, and the seemingly-confused-and-indecisive-for-months official response to the DayZ phenomenon before the standalone announcement, the troubles behind Arma 3 development, his decision to 'request' that the devs "do all that we can to release by 2013", the Steamworks announcement, BI's own forays into social media... and I think for the first time really both learning and manifesting "what it means to be a not-so-niche-anymore developer-and-publisher".

I didn't argue with any of that - I just don't like it.

In reality, the success of DayZ has put A2/A3 squarely in the spotlight and decisions have to be made.

In the case of A3, the serious consideration will always be the modding community. DayZ wouldn't exist without them.

Alienate them and the core of your game is gone - relegating it to the 'no flexibility' game models present in CoD and BF.

We'll have to wait and see how A3 is received.

Ultimately, as long as A3 has an editor and a good community base - I'm happy.

Devs do what they do - I think Froggyluv's point was simply that they will be held accountable for their actions - for better or for worse.

I'm certainly not limiting my criticism to DICE or EA but this is an EA/DICE thread so .....

Cheers :)

Edited by BangTail

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In reality, the success of DayZ has put A2/A3 squarely in the spotlight and decisions have to be made.
Pretty much this... somehow I believe that a bunch of the complainers or those accusing BI of selling out still have not truly internalized this (or still "hate" DayZ for the believed "mainstreaming of Arma")... we and BI are both living in the post-DayZ-reveal "era", and for BI there is no going back.
Alienate them and the core of your game is gone - relegating it to the 'no flexibility' game models present in CoD and BF.
I dare suggest that this depends on what you mean by "modders"... the brouhaha over Steam Workshop seems to involve specifically content modders, whereas even if they pull out wholesale the Editor's current state (so long as it's not subsequently restricted) basically guarantees that there will be a modding scene to hold A3 up high, to somewhat take their place... you'd just likely to see it move proportionally more towards mission creation and less "assets content" (i.e. units, vehicles, weapons)... but right now, with the Editor being what it is combined with a post-DayZ swell of outside-of-the-existing-community interest and this "influx" (despite being accused of being "casuals") lending their own word-of-mouth promoting and as importantly their own how-to instructions (i.e. tutorial videos) to help market Arma 3 for BI... Arma 3's position seems secure. (Those who fanboyed Arma for years only to see these newcomers be more effective marketing tools for BI/Arma than the long-time loyalists are free to take offense at my assertion if they like.)

Now, back to EA...

Devs do what they do - I think Froggyluv's point was simply that they will be held accountable for their actions - for better or for worse.
Oh, this is completely true... I believe his problem though is that he still views the situation incorrectly, that "should" =/= "will". To me it seems rather that the dominant faction in DICE clearly knows what side of the bread the butter is on, so to speak, and who their real benefactor is. They are indeed held accountable for their actions... by EA.

After all, fans and gamers are fickle and make demands, but contracts are contracts...

(I admittedly hope that this post was taken by you as having had serious and considered thought put into the composition thereof?)

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Dude, EA.

Okay... but it still doesn't tell me if all the features we're not liking about in the new titles in the series was a decision of the DICE team or all part of EA.

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