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Longinius

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 16 2002,15:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Obviously it isnt working very well since there are plenty of people out there who can't speak Swedish...<span id='postcolor'>

I am originally from Västerĺs, one of the most immigrant cities (or at least was) in Sweden. I have never met a person who doesn't speak Swedish.

Your problem is that you take the situation in Malmö and try to apply it as if it was the general situation. It is not. I don't know why Malmö is the way that it is and I wouldn't move there even if somebody put a gun to my head, but that doesn't make it representative for Sweden in general.

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"I am originally from Västerĺs, one of the most immigrant cities (or at least was) in Sweden. I have never met a person who doesn't speak Swedish."

Well, to give you an example that is even documented, the father of the murdered Fadime couldn't speak Swedish. He had been here for some 10+ years. I don't know of any more examples in the press, but I am gonna look around. Then I have encountered numerous peoples here in Malmo who I know have lived here for several years, that needed interpretors to translate for them. Commonly their child.

"Your problem is that you take the situation in Malmö and try to apply it as if it was the general situation. It is not."

I didnt say every part of Sweden is like this, but Malmo is, and its a part of Sweden.

"I don't know why Malmö is the way that it is and I wouldn't move there even if somebody put a gun to my head, but that doesn't make it representative for Sweden in general."

It is the way it is because of failed integration. And no, it isnt representative of Sweden in general at the moment, but unless something is done you will see more and more places like Malmo.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 16 2002,15:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, to give you an example that is even documented, the father of the murdered Fadime couldn't speak Swedish. He had been here for some 10+ years. I don't know of any more examples in the press, but I am gonna look around. Then I have encountered numerous peoples here in Malmo who I know have lived here for several years, that needed interpretors to translate for them. Commonly their child.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, if the child can speak Swedish, what is the problem. As long as the generation that grew up here knows the language, I see no problem.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is the way it is because of failed integration. And no, it isnt representative of Sweden in general at the moment, but unless something is done you will see more and more places like Malmo.<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree. For instance in Stockholm the situation has vastly improved the last ten years. Rinkeby & Tensta are no longer the shitholes they were and are becoming normal and respectable areas. Sure there are problems, but things are much better and they are improving all the time.

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Well I only skimmed through the last 3 pages but I decided to give my opinion (being the opionated, naive, 17 yr old I am)

I lived in Germany 2 years. This is because my Stepfather got a 2 year assignment there with OSIA (On-Site Inspection Agency) which is branched off the CIA. Anyway I lived in the American Consulate housing complex in Frankfurt. All American. In Germany. I liked it as it was easier for me to make friends and feel at home. I atteneded an English-speaking International school.

So lets look over that. I lived in Germany. I went to English speaking schools. I lived in an all American neighborhood where non-americans were not allowed. Also, for my shopping needs I went to Rhein-Main air base. Again, all American...

So my situation was very similar to those in the IC. However mine was because of the American military/government, and the IC is because of religion.

And sure, some people came to Germany and lived on base or in the american housing complex and never got out into Germany. Isolated themselves for however many years they were there. Never spoke a word of German. But some people, including myself, did go out and have a fun time in Germany, and learn German. So you can do either. So I think Longius is over reacting.

RalphWiggum I think brought up the relation to hicks and blacks. He said something about idiot republicans trying to stop Affirmative Action.

So I'm going to pretend the Muslims are blacks and that the country is America. Haha, that would be funny. They have created themselves a "ghetto" voluntarily!

I think I forgot my point.

Oh and I'm against Affirmative Action. I think it did what it was supposed to do, but is useless and discriminatory now.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 16 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But there are several jobs that do not require you to be able to speak Swedish that good<span id='postcolor'>

You mean "speak Swedish that well". tounge.gif

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i just woke up and it's still non-flame...damn i need to flame...

This whole thing seems funny cause US has been experiencing an increase in housholds that does not speak English as primary language. But at the same time, immigrants are complaining that their children are speaking too much of English.

so it seems like kids are learning "mother-tobgue" no matter what. Sooner or later, those kids will speak Swedish anyway. so integration will happen despite IC.

and I don't think all muslim population will goto IC. some will opt for Swedish education system, and think many will.

and speaking of Affirmitive action, I'd say that those who think it is reverse racism to think more. Blacks has been abducted from their home from AFrica, and was forced to live here. they lost their heritage, and had to endure hardship in every aspect of life.

and to make it worse, racial divide exists along with socio-economic disparity. most black are still under lower spectrum of economic state. and affirmative action tries to bring that gap smaller so that there are little difference, thus reducing racially motivated thought process.

it's unfortunate that it considers race as factor in its action, but it's also unfortunate that that's what they were discriminated upon and has not been able to recover much.

and you think this is racist free era? puh-leeze! why don't you get dragged down the road because you are a black guy?

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Well about affirmative action I'm in the same boat with Longius. I want equal rights. Not reverse racism.

And that "abducted from their homes" argument is always annoying. Americans didn't kidnap anyone from their homes. Americans bought slaves from the Portugese. And for chrissakes, that was 200 years ago. Lets pretend their was no slavery. Then all the black Americans now who are decended from slaves would still be Africans and be shit poor.

Personally, I'd rather have the best person for the job then the less qualified person just because the company needed to fill their black quota.

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While I understand the idea behind affirmative action, I think it is wrong in its core. Instead of treating the disease it is treating the symptoms. Instead of giving the minorities a possibility to an adequate education it is about hiring less competent people just because they are part of an ethnic minority. That only widens the gap between the minorities and the majority and it provides fuel for racism.

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reverse racism is something those upset guys decide to call it. I'd say it's giving back what was unfairly taken.

let's face it. they were africans, and they were born there, but they ended up in america anyway. and i don't think most of them decided to go through colonial era;s equivalent of INS to get here, nor they had chance to say good bye to relatives unless they were also abducted. so they were placed in US against there will most of the time. i see this as abduction.

and yes, Africa is poor, but thanx to colonial powers.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Personally, I'd rather have the best person for the job then the less qualified person just because the company needed to fill their black quota.<span id='postcolor'>

the problem is that just because he is black, despite being qualified, he wouldn't get the job. affirmitive addresses the issue and wants to make sure that applicant with sufficient background gets to qualify. behind one scene of all those "not-qualifying-blacks-taking-jobs" is 100 balcks who did not get the job despite their qulification.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ July 16 2002,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">let's face it. they were africans, and they were born there, but they ended up in america anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

"They" aren't the ones getting the jobs. It's the black Americans now. 200 years later. Most black kids I know aren't in any hurry to go back to Africa.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 16 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">While I understand the idea behind affirmative action, I think it is wrong in its core. Instead of treating the disease it is treating the symptoms. Instead of giving the minorities a possibility to an adequate education it is about hiring less competent people just because they are part of an ethnic minority. That only widens the gap between the minorities and the majority and it provides fuel for racism.<span id='postcolor'>

I'd say affirmitive action gives that chance of equal education. If there are not enough minority leader in society, how can you expect them to come back to the minority community and contribute to it?

to integrate into a society as an equal you need to be provided chance of equal thing. and still in minority neighborhood, those chances are less than that of white community. black CPAs? puh-leeze. they recieve such a delapidated education from beginning that going to college itself is a big investment.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (residuum @ July 16 2002,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ July 16 2002,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">let's face it. they were africans, and they were born there, but they ended up in america anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

"They" aren't the ones getting the jobs.  It's the black Americans now.  200 years later.  Most black kids I know aren't in any hurry to go back to Africa.<span id='postcolor'>

and you expect them to move back to Africa?

after taking their roots away, how could you expect them to return there?

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