Terrain Improvement (dev branch)

[Javi_KT 10]

I'm on Altis now. The game needs this system to improve the gameplay experience

[nodunit 397]

shouldn;t this be engine's job to add shadow into main texture where trees stand ?

Yes and no, actual shadows only render a certain distance for performance reasons and from afar can look strange whereas painting the shadow adds a bit of extra depth , especially for distance visuals. It's the same as placing an ambient occlusion map over a texture to give that extra touch.

[wiresnsnakes 1]

Yeah, thank you very much Nordkindchen. Really hope this will not be seen as "not so important".

I think it is if you being spotable in a second from a km and you rather play games with a lower scale and a bit less realism, where your harder to spot from far away, then the opposite.

I often read Arma and actially believed it would be simply realistic, if people complain they got shot from a km away in this series.

The real reason is often just the unrealistic low distant detail. A few hours drasticly showed me that.

It should be possible to move in some areas without going prone to remain unseen from a few 100m.

Thats why I hope Altis will have more micro-terrain. Stratis is hilly marcowise, so functional for vehicles, but micro-wise its flat and thats not functional for infantry.

BTW: The lightning still needs work:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130819/7ejisuu9.jpg

[antnxx 1]

I have to report That altis is really really ugly. It's like washed out colors and really crappy texture. Basically if you see the land then it seems like someone has smudged all the colors away with wet cloth. Anyway Altis textures are horrible.

[Simas 12]

I have to report That altis is really really ugly. It's like washed out colors and really crappy texture. Basically if you see the land then it seems like someone has smudged all the colors away with wet cloth. Anyway Altis textures are horrible.

I feel the opposite. The Altis mid-range looks and fits better than the Stratis one, but doesn't help with concealment tho.

[el_muerko 0]

I feel the opposite. The Altis mid-range looks and fits better than the Stratis one, but doesn't help with concealment tho.

Agreed, Altis looks amazing, enemies may stand out against some backgrounds but that's just how they look.

[jumpinghubert 48]

yes, altis looks amazing, but not its blurry midrange textures. From the air or in hilly areas you will notice it more than in the flat areas.

[Javi_KT 10]

Sometimes it looks like the texture of an old Flight Simulator. It´s so blurry. A change is needed.

[Smurf 12]

The midrange textures problem in Altis isn't big as in Stratis because you have more flat surfaces instead of hills everywhere, so you notice it less.

But is an issue and I'm glad that we have someone working on it and there are mods aware and also looking on it.

[Javi_KT 10]

In the flat zone of course but in a helicopter or in the mountains you can notice it easily. Until NordKindchen (A.K.A. The Great) doesn't show us the difference I think we don't see the change between each other.

I saw the same blurry mid-texture than Stratis.

[markocro 66]

it's a dream ! no flight simulators give such a detailed landscape!

first you need to add launch parameter -mod=@performance_test enabling the mod from menues did not work.

then I had hard time tweaking setting so detailed textures does not dissapear. usually helped switching to lowers setting, then to High (using combo-box, not manually each setting)

and now pictures, click to view 100% (btw original is 1920x1200):

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903257625023162699/48609DD3134FD130395C3A5F0B26CB1B37CEA527/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903257625023175298/B390B4F41C3E1676B3FA94E0C1C9CAE599552F80/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903257625023170877/469E826F1B3DBBB40430EB0A0BDE3891B89A97AC/

PS. I have old card GeForce GTX 275, 800+ MB memory, CPU: Core 2 Duo E8300

I have almost no perfomance hit (my avarage is 15 FPS ))

looks very good, thumbs up for this :)

[skyline 1]

@NordKindchen - Thanks for what you have done so far, your work is awesome.

[el_muerko 0]

I've flown around Altis a couple of times now and I don't see the blur you see, I see detail and prettiness and texture detail in line with the other assets on the island. The texturing of Altis seems far superior to Stratus IMHO.

[sproyd 2]

Okay I'm confused - how are people claiming that Altis is immune from the mid-range texture problem - I've been using bad benson's tex mod almost exclusively on Stratis and now switching to Altis its like an eye-bleed (mid-range only, long-range and short-range are fine). I'm on all maxed settings by the way (incl Ultra textures).

It looks like the graphic artists used the spray can feature on MS Paint to do the mid-range textures.

Is it possible for a procedural mod to cover Altis as doing a reskin is going to take a LOOONG time.

[xendance 3]

Okay I'm confused - how are people claiming that Altis is immune from the mid-range texture problem - I've been using bad benson's tex mod almost exclusively on Stratis and now switching to Altis its like an eye-bleed (mid-range only, long-range and short-range are fine). I'm on all maxed settings by the way (incl Ultra textures).

It looks like the graphic artists used the spray can feature on MS Paint to do the mid-range textures.

Is it possible for a procedural mod to cover Altis as doing a reskin is going to take a LOOONG time.

Nobody is saying that "it's immune". It's just harder to notice on the ground since the terrain is so flat.

[sproyd 2]

Well if you are saying that by looking at a texture on a sharp angle its less apparent then I suppose so but certainly looking anything over 45 degrees to straight on (90) its glaringly obvious? I am by no means a whinger I try and be positive as I can but this is one nit I have chosen to pick.

[NordKindchen 12]

Reskinning the island will take AGES at least the way we have to do it at the moment.

The system I suggested would however solve the problem much much faster.

[wiresnsnakes 1]

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130828/apirze88.jpg FXAA Standard and 2x AA

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130828/drtjj3yk.jpg FXAA off and 8xx

As you can see, it sucks to be a soldier on Altis.

To be honest: You see that especially FXAA increase the visibility.

The environment textures have one colourtone and there is no fine structure as you would have in reality.

But besides that there is just nothing that districts you.

If you want to increase realistic camo you have to make the soldiers blurry or you have to distort/pixelate the environment.

New textures will not really do the Job

1. The environment will still be flat with highres-textures.

2. the effect of textures is negated at flat angles. And at engagements the flatter angles are the usual case and are the ones that are important.

3. The lightning still handles the ground and units differently.

Anyway, the thread is about the aesthatics texturewise, but the ones that are about the visibility of units above 100-200m are dead.

Realism and gameplay doesnt seem to be important in this game.

Beware of my paintskills!

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130828/ptty7n2g.jpg

Anyway: There is many tech that makes farer things sharp, at the same time there is nothing that adjust the soldier. I played around with paint and the only thing that works is to blur the soldier/making him more transparent like the environment is or spray pixels on the ground.

I think its a generall a technical problem of the limited resolution and/or the fact that pictures on a display are 2D that makes a perfect solution difficult.

I never had this problem in any other game, cause the effective range of weapons or viewdistance was lower.

But still, I dont know why this wasnt solved in the last games or at least this game.

Edited August 28, 2013 by wiresnsnakes

[xendance 3]

Anyone know if it's possible to change the distance where the close up textures start to blend into the medium range textures?

I think the blend range is way too short, the engine still renders grass clutter up to distances where there's only the medium range texture visible. The close up texture could easily render to that distance as the grass clutter would hide the texture repetition quite well I think.

[Bee8190 10]

Noticed the midrange textures on altis and some places look ugly because of that on ultra settings. Is this known to BI / are they still working on that?

[-=seany=- 5]

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130828/apirze88.jpg FXAA Standard and 2x AA

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130828/drtjj3yk.jpg FXAA off and 8xx

As you can see, it sucks to be a soldier on Altis.

To be honest: You see that especially FXAA increase the visibility.

The environment textures have one colourtone and there is no fine structure as you would have in reality.

But besides that there is just nothing that districts you.

If you want to increase realistic camo you have to make the soldiers blurry or you have to distort/pixelate the environment.

New textures will not really do the Job

1. The environment will still be flat with highres-textures.

2. the effect of textures is negated at flat angles. And at engagements the flatter angles are the usual case and are the ones that are important.

3. The lightning still handles the ground and units differently.

Anyway, the thread is about the aesthatics texturewise, but the ones that are about the visibility of units above 100-200m are dead.

Realism and gameplay doesnt seem to be important in this game.

Beware of my paintskills!

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130828/ptty7n2g.jpg

Anyway: There is many tech that makes farer things sharp, at the same time there is nothing that adjust the soldier. I played around with paint and the only thing that works is to blur the soldier/making him more transparent like the environment is or spray pixels on the ground.

I think its a generall a technical problem of the limited resolution and/or the fact that pictures on a display are 2D that makes a perfect solution difficult.

I never had this problem in any other game, cause the effective range of weapons or viewdistance was lower.

But still, I dont know why this wasnt solved in the last games or at least this game.

Those soldiers don't look particularly far away to be honest, I can't see how they should be less visible than they are in those screen shots. Your also looking at them through a magnified scope. Also none of them are lying down. Unless you in elephant grass your always going to be pretty visible while standing up.

Another thing I notice that is quite odd for a thread about texture sharpness and bland distant textures: You have Ansio. Filtering set to standard. Turn this to Ultra...In fact, go into your graphics card control panel and set Anisotropic Filtering to as high as it will go for Arma3.exe (eg x16). Also what level of Texture Detail are you using, the maximum I hope?

Another thing I notice is that you have all Post effects switched off, that means no haze effect etc. These are things in the real world that also make seeing things in the distance difficult, not just ground clutter and texture sharpness.

I know (and agree)that the distance textures could use improving but your not even giving the game a chance with those screen shots.

Some areas are always going to be easier to be spotted, even in the real world. Altis has quite a few locations like this (such as in your screens) It's just a tactical aspect of the terrain you have to be aware of and work around. But you can help it some what by increasing Arma's gfx settings (if your machine allows of course).

Edited September 2, 2013 by -=seany=-

[NordKindchen 12]

Heres another comparisson shot.

And an update on the Altis situation. As Vanzant tested out even on Altis this kind of resolution is possible without a noticeable frameratedrop.

That means I will most likely do sth like this for Altis too.

On the other hand Altis is such a huge environment that it would take month to recreate. Therefore I would ask you guys for areas of interest which I could work on. This way more populated environments could be improved first and set into usage.

Greetings

[nikiforos 450]

Awesome news NordKindchen !!! Your work is much appreciated and needed:)

[Tonci87 163]

Damn that looks awesome!

About POI:

I would focus on the hilly areas without forests since you don´t notice the bad textures on flat terrain (unless you are a pilot)

But having only parts of the island highly detailed will lead to problems. I imagine the "borders" will be very easy to spot.

[Javi_KT 10]

Thank god we have you. Much appreciated.