Walrus AI / Patch 1.04 - 1.05

[norritt 1]

Hello everyone,

I've purchased CC a while ago and had started to play the campaign to a certain point. As a fan of the original CC I think it's an overall great game, though the catastrophic Walrus AI (I played version 1.03) did start to spoil the fun at some point, because I was starting to spend more time on manually moving around one walrus after another, than doing anything else. Yesterday I read about the patches 1.04 and 1.05 - which I didn't install yet. Has anyone tried these and seen any improvements to the Walrus AI in comparison to 1.03?

P.S.: I have a non steam version so the Steam-Only Walrus AI mod is no option for me.

[wraith2021 1]

i have 1.4 installed, walrus AI is improved, but sometimes done by cheating. if a walrus gets stuck it sometimes yanks it back on course. I think patch 1.3 was a good patch, I'm hoping that once 1.5 is taken out of beta stage they might have improved things.

[norritt 1]

Hey wraith,

thx 4 the info. I'll might give 1.04 another shot then and hope the devs will even further improve it in 1.05.

[species1571 64]

They have improved a lot since release. I never noticed walruses cheating, but in 1.04 I did notice that mantas after a few seconds of being in a position where they couldn't find their own way back to the carrier when set to dock, would just dock anyway, even if they were on the other side of the island, but I haven't seen this in 1.05. They still do stupid things like a walrus on the approach of a bridge, just sit there and wobble back and forward, or a manta set to dock, turning around and flying a course around a mountain, but these are more rare now.

[species1571 64]

I did notice that mantas after a few seconds of being in a position where they couldn't find their own way back to the carrier when set to dock, would just dock anyway, even if they were on the other side of the island, but I haven't seen this in 1.05

Correction, this is still happening in 1.05, I have seen it today.

[wraith2021 1]

I had a walrus set to dock, and it got stuck on a rock on the beach, after a few seconds of it being stuck there it just yanked it back into the carrier. Also there is a slight improvement between units not bashing into each other.

[Tontow 1]

I really wish they would just open up the Pathfinding AI for modding..... Just rip out the pathfinding AI into a c++ .dll file that users can work with.

The other reason to do this is so that we can add units that move differently. IE: subs or space ships or hover craft or planes with no hover mode.

[species1571 64]

Correction, this is still happening in 1.05, I have seen it today.

That's the same thing I'm describing with mantas. Never seen it happen with walruses. I really think they need to let walruses under AI just pass through rocks and trees the same as they can with bushes, as this now seems to be their main problem, apart from getting stuck at bridges.

[norritt 1]

It would be perfectly okay for me if the walrusses did some "cheating" at some point by passing through objects as long as I can just send them anywhere and be sure they don't get stuck on the way (this shouldnt get unfair though like passing through defensive build structures/walls). In V.1.03 I even saw walrusses blocking each other on an open street (it was a convoy of all 4 walrusses). At some turn one started to drive offroad in circles and then went back and forth blocking the following vehicles. So the only way to solve that, was driving them manually to a save spot near the target area one by one. And since you usually have to destroy multiple targets to capture an island I had to do this like 5 or 6 times (multiplied by 4 walrusses this makes 20-24 times driving across the same island).

So from my experience there are workarounds for general pathfinding by just setting enough waypoints but what is really messed up (or at least was in V1.03) is the convoy behaviour.

[Bansheedragon 1]

I have played this game since Beta, currently running 1.4 non-steam version, and can honestly say I dont see much improvement on the Walrus AI, if any at all.

Most of the time its ok at best, but far too often I seen them stopping every few meters and then rocking back and forth as if they dont know where they should go.

I seen it happen even on short stretches of straight road with flat terrain and no obstacles.

It is especially bad when I have the others just follow me, I can get 1 to follow me, but the other 2 are acting like confused headless chickens.

Its extremely frustrating when you expect them to follow you, only to suddenly find yourself alone in a firefight against multiple enemies when their support means the difference between victory or defeat.

I think its a great game and a great tribute to the original, but the terrible Walrus AI is seriously diminishing the enjoyment of the game, and even hampering gameplay progress.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Bansheedragon
Spelling/typing errors

[rob04 10]

I agree about the need for improving the walrus AI. I get annoyed at watching my walrus continuously slow down and speed up when it is travelling on straight, level ground with no obstructions. I get annoyed when I see it constantly ram into certain objects instead of going around them. Another thing that annoys me is when I order a walrus to dock and it plots a stupid course that takes it away from the carrier. In spite of these annoyances, I would not prefer to have them go through solid objects (as a cheat) because this would not be realistic. I want as much realism in the game as possible. I think the best solution would be if BIS would improve the AI once and for all. It doesn't have to be perfect because when the player is not controlling a walrus, the carrier's computer (the friendly AI) is controlling it and I don't think that would control it perfectly anyway. I don't think it would control a walrus as good as a player. As I said, I agree that the walrus AI should be improved to be better than it is.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Rob04

[atroublestarter 3]

I'm hoping that once 1.5 is taken out of beta stage they might have improved things.

LOL!!!

[npjnpj 1]

About this walrus and manta AI thing: My viewpoint is that it should stay as it is, apart from a bit of pathfinding optimisation. True to the spirit of the Amiga and Atari ST originals, the AI was never meant for greater purposes, it was just a matter of having the units move into a position until their presence is required, then you take over.

I don't think I'd like the AI to be so sophisticated that I can practically lean back and watch the game as if it were a movie. I'd only feel half as involved as I do now. As I said, apart from a few tweaks the AI's mainly fine as it is. Please don't let it fight my battles for me.

Perhaps it might even be best to remove any AI command options apart from point to point navigation and docking. That way nobody would feel something was missing or wrong.

Edited June 24, 2013 by npjnpj

[jureidinim 10]

About this walrus and manta AI thing: My viewpoint is that it should stay as it is, apart from a bit of pathfinding optimisation. True to the spirit of the Amiga and Atari ST originals, the AI was never meant for greater purposes, it was just a matter of having the units move into a position until their presence is required, then you take over.

I think thats all everyone is really complaining about - that the AI just does stupid things during its pathfinding. I agree that for this game, the combat is ok as is - if you want it to be better then thats what the manual control is for - although it can take some tweaks in that area too (follow command, etc.)

ARMA 3 goes BETA this week i believe. I'm hoping after that there may be some dev-time given to improving this game. Its a real rough gem that deserves more.