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g_rider

Everyone gets a trophy syndrome has come to ARMA

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DayZ itself is anything but dumbed down. If anything vanilla game needs some stuff from it - it had bleeding and injuries that could've been healed only by specialized equipment or your buddy (blood transfusion) - something vanilla A2 didn't have and something A3 doesn't have either (using a magical 1 click-heal medkit instead). DayZ is not easy and dying in it is a lot more cruel than boring respawn missions many people play.

The problem however is that DayZ brought really really bad players who don't understand and don't care about what ArmA is and considering how hardcore DayZ is I'm really surprised it let those people in.

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no offense but the way they implemented blood transfusion is really stupid and anyhting but "hardcore", it's basically just a 2 man operated medkit.

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Veteran have always had 3rd person and crosshairs enabled by default as far as I can remember.

Veteran default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A2 OA = 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A3 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

Expert (A3 Elite) default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A2 OA = 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A3 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs enabled

Only thing changed since OFP, A1, A2, A2OA are the crosshairs being enabled on Expert, wich is now also just called Elite in A3.

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Veteran have always had 3rd person and crosshairs enabled by default as far as I can remember.

Veteran default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A2 OA = 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A3 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

Expert (A3 Elite) default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A2 OA = 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A3 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs enabled

Only thing changed since OFP, A1, A2, A2OA are the crosshairs being enabled on Expert, wich is now also just called Elite in A3.

This is pretty much all wrong.

Veteran default had no 3rd person and especially no enemies on the map. You had to change the settings on Veteran to allow these.

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 AM ----------

Not sure where this is from (besides in this thread) but is encapsulates my sentiments of some of the dumbing down. While if you could put today's setting side by side of former difficulty settings before the changes it would be even more obvious to the less experienced here.

Edited by Placebo

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On my vanilla A2:OA install, Veteran definitely did include 3rd Person.

If there was any "dumbing down", it happened in a patch between when you stopped playing vanilla A2 and when I started. Not in A3.

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I just fired up my copy of OA and checked the Veteran difficulty settings (I play on Regular and have customised that for my uses, Veteran is untouched) and it seems 3rd person is enabled by default.

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On my vanilla A2:OA install, Veteran definitely did include 3rd Person.

If there was any "dumbing down", it happened in a patch between when you stopped playing vanilla A2 and when I started. Not in A3.

Fair. But when AI, A2 and A2AO vet included no 3rd person on vet default at one time.

Now your other point about A3 is lacking as you can see a further dumbing down of the settings from current A2OA and A3.

I've been here 12 years. No current wiki out there documents the lessening over the years of veteran towards cadet. But it did happen and apparently continuing to happen, and hence the Thread Title. Anyone chiming in and disputing the difficulty setting changes over the years don't know what the discussion I hopefully put forward is about and further more it's longer term affects on the game and it's community.

I would like to add: If you're (not necessarily everyone who is reading this) arguing without facts, history of personal experience, or even know what the syndrome is that I've put forth, what does that exactly make your contribution to this thread?

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I just fired up my copy of OA and checked the Veteran difficulty settings (I play on Regular and have customised that for my uses, Veteran is untouched) and it seems 3rd person is enabled by default.

No, wait, it gets better. I just completed a brand new install of ArmA (1) and Crosshairs and 3rd-Person are also both enabled by default on Veteran there too.

But really, is it entirely fair to start introducing easily-verifiable facts at this late stage in the discussion?

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It seems someone just can't accept fact that 3rd person view was default in BIS games...at least ten guys already check their previous titles.

Maybe I should reinstall my OFP so we could convince him...

I too remember that crosshair was in veteran, always turn it off as I shot better without it (point shooting)

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what does that exactly make your contribution to this thread?

Rational and unaffected by nostalgia?

If you think the series has gone so far down the toilet, you should probably do us all a favour and and leave it forever, rather than try to argue a point by essentailly saying that we're not worthy of being part of your elite thread.

No, wait, it gets better. I just completed a brand new install of ArmA (1) and Crosshairs and 3rd-Person are also both enabled by default on Veteran there too.

To be fair, crosshairs should be enabled for everything anyway, at least in Arma 3.

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Veteran default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A2 OA = 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

A3 ==== 3rd person enabled Crosshairs enabled

Expert (A3 Elite) default settings:

A2 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A2 OA = 3rd person disabled Crosshairs disabled

A3 ==== 3rd person disabled Crosshairs enabled

These setting were checked just now, today, before I posted, by the way. I opened all the games and defaulted their difficulty settings.

So the above is the current ArmA default difficulty settings.

I myself remember no change, altough a recent patch could've changed the default settings to these for sure. Not going to argue against that.

Edited by AlexVestin

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Is there anything stopping us from making servers without 3rd person, crosshairs, enemies on the map and such? I'm just curious. Are we forced to use these new difficulty settings?

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a recent patch could've changed the default settings to these for sure. Not going to argue against that.

That is one of the points of the thread that has to be understood before taking on the concepts of "everyone gets a trophy syndrome".

---------- Post added at 03:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 AM ----------

Is there anything stopping us from making servers without 3rd person, crosshairs, enemies on the map and such? I'm just curious. Are we forced to use these new difficulty settings?

Nope.

But the point is now it is very difficult to find servers like above. Before you could just pick a veteran server and unless they changed the default settings of veteran you would have that experience. And if you haven't been around long enough you would know that expert settings used to rid the hud display of sholder fire locks ect. so veteran was the way to go for many.

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That is one of the points of the thread that has to be understood before taking on the concepts of "everyone gets a trophy syndrome".

---------- Post added at 03:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 AM ----------

Nope.

But the point is now it is very difficult to find servers like above. Before you could just pick a veteran server and unless they changed the default settings of veteran you would have that experience. And if you haven't been around long enough you would know that expert settings used to rid the hud display of sholder fire locks ect. so veteran was the way to go for many.

I see.

They're changing the norms of public play due to the influx of new players, i guess. I don't like that myself.

But since nothing is stopping me from having a good time without these new settings on locked/custom servers with like-minded people... i'm quite fine with it. People who enjoy these settings will probably leave if they find themselves on servers with 1st person only anyways, for example.

I've always supported all kinds of gameplay in ArmA. I believe there should be something here for everyone. (Not the ones wanting to get spoon-fed, that is.)

But one important thing is also how Vanilla should be of course, which is what the new players are going to see. And third person is probably a very important factor in that matter.

Tricky situation this. I'd like to hear some words from the devs about this.

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No, wait, it gets better. I just completed a brand new install of ArmA (1) and Crosshairs and 3rd-Person are also both enabled by default on Veteran there too.

But really, is it entirely fair to start introducing easily-verifiable facts at this late stage in the discussion?

I don't. Servers that I've hosted and help host the default files had difficulties over the years different than that they are now. All of which is a slow process which is hard to notice at a glance. I've never really looked at client side difficulty settings and compared. That could be entirely different than what you get from buying a paid server and it's default settings that you use and see there. I really don't know.

Whichever it is, the syndrome is here and is evident to many via my PMs and emails not just today but in the last year or more. I don't see there being any benefit arguing this point. I myself regret it.

On a more serious note, just in the last couple years I've washed out (various pilot check rides) so many young people to better prepared younger foreign (foreign to USA/Canada, usually former colonial Africa or Northern Europeans) students not affected by this syndrome. I see this as clear as day brother. Worrying to say the least.

How is this relevant?

Well, in my estimation its taking root to what was the premiere military sandbox game that I loved so dearly. It's one thing to see so many youths falling behind in the real world but in my favorite game, well that's just too much to take. Hence, the belittling sarcasm that I've used which to some of you would be very surprised how well it works on some to shape up and fly right. But using even that tool (sarcasm) is misidentified by many in here, which is further evidence of the dumbing down syndrome. ie belittling sarcasm misidentified as insults and trolling. Unfortunately for some they well never have the life improving events where belittling sarcasm did wonders into motivating youths to improve themselves more than when everyone getting a cadet/recruit trophy labeled Veteran has ever did.

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How is this relevant?

Well, in my estimation its taking root to what was the premiere military sandbox game that I loved so dearly. It's one thing to see so many youths falling behind in the real world but in my favorite game, well that's just too much to take. Hence, the belittling sarcasm that I've used which to some of you would be very surprised how well it works on some to shape up and fly right. But using even that tool (sarcasm) is misidentified by many in here, which is further evidence of the dumbing down syndrome. ie belittling sarcasm misidentified as insults and trolling. Unfortunately for some they well never have the life improving events where belittling sarcasm did wonders into motivating youths to improve themselves more than when everyone getting a cadet/recruit trophy labeled Veteran has ever did.

Sorry to break it to you, but sarcasm does not translate well through text. There is no tone or body language for us to interpret what you say as "sarcastic" so don't try to use it in text because it more often than not comes off as insulting. Secondly, I think your attitude stinks. You condescending attitude towards anything that you do not perceive as "veteran" or "elite" enough to suit your tastes is quite obnoxious. Referring to everyone that you perceive as less "veteran" than you in such a way comes off as very elitist and is an attitude the ArmA community does not need. That being said, I can understand if you do not like things such as third person, cross hairs and the like and that's perfectly fine. However ArmA doesn't need to cater to just your tastes. Some people like that stuff, some people don't. Don't think that you're better because you have a certain preference. If your preferences aren't being catered to by public servers, then simply find a group of like minded individuals and play on private servers. Private servers constitute 99% of my ArmA game play because I can ensure that my own preferences are catered to without imposing on others.

And please, drop the "Gen 0" monikers, its quite immature to automatically think of those that are younger than you to be inferior. More naive, less mature and less perspective? Sure. However, don't pretend you weren't young at some point.

I have no problem with ArmA appealing to a wider audience and attracting people who would normally play faster paced 'twitch' FPS games. As long as they have a good attitude then I welcome more people into the ArmA community with open arms.

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Thinking of it. It is great that ArmA has potential to appeal to every shooter fan out there. As long as everyone gets to play how they want, since it is a sandbox game. So what if some CoD fans find their way here? So what if they enjoy playing with 3rd person and crosshairs? There is no room for elitist behavior in this community, there is no "better" way of playing ArmA. The point of the game is that it is sandbox, and that you can play the way YOU want.

As long as it doesn't bother me in my sessions, and as long as the configs are widely configurable and modding is fully supported. It don't see the problem. The game has opened up for a wider audience, while keeping intact for the old ones. And i think it is great, because it makes the game even more sandbox.

If a game like ArmA can appeal to all kinds of shooter fans, my faith in PC gaming is restored. Because then we have a successful, fully-modable, PC-exclusive game that appeals to both shooter fans, and mil-sim fans. And this is certainly a notch up from the mind-numbing "press a to win", DLC spewing, non modable games most gamers are used to these days. So it could increase the bar of what gamers expect from future games.

Edited by Winfernal

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Hence, the belittling sarcasm that I've used which to some of you would be very surprised how well it works on some to shape up and fly right. But using even that tool (sarcasm) is misidentified by many in here, which is further evidence of the dumbing down syndrome. ie belittling sarcasm misidentified as insults and trolling. Unfortunately for some they well never have the life improving events where belittling sarcasm did wonders into motivating youths to improve themselves more than when everyone getting a cadet/recruit trophy labeled Veteran has ever did.

That's the lamest excuse for acting in such a way I've ever read. And, weirdly, it's the fault of other people being dumbed down for not "getting" it. This is a process of identifying genuine problems that could affect the stability and performance of the ArmA game, and this is how you respond, sarcasm with a retro lame excuse. I'm not surprised you wish you'd never started it, it is a shameful exercise.

Anyway, options. Maybe they need a reshuffling for appropriate realism levels, maybe they don't, either way, they can be set. Its hardly everyone else's fault that public casual servers aren't set up the exact way you wish them to be.

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This is a process of identifying genuine problems that could affect the stability and performance of the ArmA game, and this is how you respond, sarcasm with a retro lame .

Are you in the right thread. Nowhere is performance and stability being discussed or a topic of this thread.

All you've done is project onto me your assumptions and confusion.

---------- Post added at 05:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 AM ----------

Sorry to break it to you, but sarcasm does not translate well through text. There is no tone or body language for us to interpret what you say as "sarcastic" so don't try to use it in text because it more often than not comes off as insulting. Secondly, I think your attitude stinks. You condescending attitude towards anything that you do not perceive as "veteran" or "elite" enough to suit your tastes is quite obnoxious. Referring to everyone that you perceive as less "veteran" than you in such a way comes off as very elitist and is an attitude the ArmA community does not need. That being said, I can understand if you do not like things such as third person, cross hairs and the like and that's perfectly fine. However ArmA doesn't need to cater to just your tastes. Some people like that stuff, some people don't. Don't think that you're better because you have a certain preference. If your preferences aren't being catered to by public servers, then simply find a group of like minded individuals and play on private servers. Private servers constitute 99% of my ArmA game play because I can ensure that my own preferences are catered to without imposing on others.

And please, drop the "Gen 0" monikers, its quite immature to automatically think of those that are younger than you to be inferior. More naive, less mature and less perspective? Sure. However, don't pretend you weren't young at some point.

I have no problem with ArmA appealing to a wider audience and attracting people who would normally play faster paced 'twitch' FPS games. As long as they have a good attitude then I welcome more people into the ArmA community with open arms.

I understand. Still asserting the syndrome is here however lacking my forum skills are from inexperience. But to clarify Gen Zero wasn't a sarcasm but a daily reminder in my work. The Bieber remarks and such were the sarcasm.

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If the devs decided to go "not-so-hardcore" for the difficulty setting defaults, I'm pretty sure that that's because public play isn't what the hardcores are into anyway. :p Hence feeling that they could take a chance on accommodating "people who would normally play faster paced 'twitch' FPS games" because they figure that those long-timers not willing to play with said newcomers or with said 'easier' default settings will simply go for private servers with more customized and difficult settings.

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I understand. Still asserting the syndrome is here however lacking my forum skills are from inexperience. But to clarify Gen Zero wasn't a sarcasm but a daily reminder in my work. The Bieber remarks and such were the sarcasm.

Fair enough. You may want to consider being less belligerent when you post. What you say has more weight when you rely on your arguments or your concerns instead of ad hominems to convey your point. Far be it from me to say that you shouldn't discuss something that you feel is a concern (even if I disagree), but it is better when everyone remains courteous in discussions.

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If the devs decided to go "not-so-hardcore" for the difficulty setting defaults, I'm pretty sure that that's because public play isn't what the hardcores are into anyway. :p Hence feeling that they could take a chance on accommodating "people who would normally play faster paced 'twitch' FPS games" because they figure that those long-timers not willing to play with said newcomers or with said 'easier' default settings will simply go for private servers with more customized and difficult settings.

Correct. This is what i think too. No one is doing serious events on public servers anyways? And private servers are fully-customizable with both configs and missions.

There are lonewolfs and more casual players in this community too. It is great that their playstyle is more appreciated.

Oh, and by they way:

DayZ's success was because of it being the first successful, hardcore, realistic zombie sim. And it came at the right time. No one is to be blamed for this. Gamers in general wanted something like this, and so they received from an A2 mod. It's not Dean Halls or BIs fault that ACE isn't seeing the same success.

Edited by Winfernal

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Sorry to break it to you, but sarcasm does not translate well through text. There is no tone or body language for us to interpret what you say as "sarcastic" so don't try to use it in text because it more often than not comes off as insulting. Secondly, I think your attitude stinks. You condescending attitude towards anything that you do not perceive as "veteran" or "elite" enough to suit your tastes is quite obnoxious. Referring to everyone that you perceive as less "veteran" than you in such a way comes off as very elitist and is an attitude the ArmA community does not need. That being said, I can understand if you do not like things such as third person, cross hairs and the like and that's perfectly fine. However ArmA doesn't need to cater to just your tastes. Some people like that stuff, some people don't. Don't think that you're better because you have a certain preference. If your preferences aren't being catered to by public servers, then simply find a group of like minded individuals and play on private servers. Private servers constitute 99% of my ArmA game play because I can ensure that my own preferences are catered to without imposing on others.

And please, drop the "Gen 0" monikers, its quite immature to automatically think of those that are younger than you to be inferior. More naive, less mature and less perspective? Sure. However, don't pretend you weren't young at some point.

I have no problem with ArmA appealing to a wider audience and attracting people who would normally play faster paced 'twitch' FPS games. As long as they have a good attitude then I welcome more people into the ArmA community with open arms.

I understand. Still asserting the syndrome is here however lacking my forum skills are from inexperience.

To clarify Gen Zero wasn't a sarcasm but a daily reminder in my work. The Bieber remarks and such were the sarcasm. Gen Zero is nothing as you described it which could mean you don't understand the concept. Really it's not a knock on the younger as a knock on the older who mislead the younger which is unfortunately being deemed to have sinister motivations. My experience also has been that the ire is often misplaced especially when it's pointed out.

I don't have a problem with new and more people here either. If you're proposing that I do by asserting your belief system to this thread to somehow contrast in a moral relevancy from mine I'd just point out that all you've done is project an assertion onto me which never helps.

But I do hope this helps. Take the Gen Zero abbreviated definition that was laid out and assert the concepts into the below statement; you should see it really wasn't directed to you and anyone here but BIS.

My thread was and is directed to BIS and what BIS has done. Or more correctly, what BIS

hasn't done to stop this trend over the years.

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My thread was and is directed to BIS and what BIS has done. Or more correctly, what BIS

hasn't done to stop this trend over the years.

An interesting question is. Where would we be with ArmA 3 or ArmA in general without DayZs success? Did this trend start before DayZ was planned even?

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An interesting question is. Where would we be with ArmA 3 or ArmA in general without DayZs success? Did this trend start before DayZ was planned even?

I think we know with the success of the A2OA DLC there was going to be a ARMA III with DLC. But to have all the details of development trends and decisions would require a position I'm not in to answer.

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