Balancing?

[chortles 263]

Okay, Wolfstriked, I'll admit that I do find that odd, unless you were "targeting" the same area (gradually weakening it) over time with each grenade?

I'd happily trade it for TOH FM

Whereas quite a few people would be happy to trade that for 10 more frames per second... unless you believe that RiE was lying about that. :p

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I'd happily trade it for TOH FM

You displayed feature-blindness, I'm telling you which things you've missed to mention, not what'd you happily like more.

Tactical pace? Yes, nice addition along with prone sprint. But I find that I use it rather rarely.

And it's the default speed for me. Once again, neither your or my opinion of it matters in what you're trying to say, it's been developed.

??

Moving and effectively using handguns in the series prior to Arma 3 was like trying to cut a titanium bar with a rusty piece of aluminium foil.

Sure. Thanks, nvidia. But what benefit if different surface types are not simulated for vehicles (everything behaves like concrete, roads have 0 strategic importance as well as tracked vehicles).

Yeah, I'm sure nVidia took time and said "yeah, BI guys, work on something else, we'll fully implement that for you".

We have no idea how tracked vehicles behave, because we don't have a properly implemented tracked vehicles. Sure, surfaces could be simulated additionally from what we see now for the tracked vehicles, but are you really going to say, from the wheeled implementation so far, it's worth nothing because of that and that it's worse than what we used to have? Read through this and notice the potential.

Clouds were implemented in RV before A3, ctrl-c ctrl-v.

Ok, I agree, they were in ToH. What I won't agree on is that it took no effort to port it. If it were apparently that simple, we'd have one of the things you'd wanted. ToH FM.

I know a lot of promised improvements too. Have to see it to know whether it is one.

Alright, I'll give you that for the rain as they've stated they haven't started that yet. But the grenades, oh the grenades. While the implementation might be a bit raw at this point, it's not promised, it's something that's been developed and in alpha since day one. I dislike the raw aspects of it as well, but it's infinite times better than the grenades in default Arma 2. With separate keybinds and without the entire procedure that it took to throw a grenade in Arma 2. All it takes right now is some animation polish, hold-until-ready-to-throw, variable power, movement speed restriction and it will be classy.

don't stretch it that far, it's like 1 man-hour scripting job.

Right, so it's worthless, non gameplay affecting and we'll waive it right off because it isn't complex. They should have just not done it and let a mod do it, right?

Other pip stuff like proper MFDs, scopes, periscopes in armor? Oh wait, it's so low quality and inefficient, that no one uses it.

Yeah, no one finds it useful when you're first person locked and have to reverse, no one finds it useful that you can implement a UAV feed on the UI or an ingame TV screen. Periscopes are possible, try the gunner seat of the SDV. I don't plan to regurgitate why it is like it is, but denying it's existence isn't appropriate.

Anyway, thats just like, my opinion.

Yeah, and your opinion seems to be "they haven't done what I want to be in the game, so it doesn't count" and then everything they actually did, you proceed to dismiss. I suggest reevaluating your concept on how things are made and how much they take before you assume things like that.

There's also another The Dude quote which would fit as a reply quite nicely.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[chortles 263]

Not only is Sniperwolf572 correct that the periscope is on the SDV, but that's rather important because it -- and the equipped laser marker -- are what make the in-game SDV more than a mere four-person underwater transport craft...

[nodunit 397]

As as such I really hope to see such things extended to aircraft should the player decide to use PIP. It could allow excellent crew awareness, allowing the pilot and gunner to coordinate for better locating of targets and more.

[blu3sman 11]

You displayed feature-blindness

Let's not turn it into "glass is half full/half empty" debate. No doubt i did forget some things, my memory is not perfect.

I'm telling you which things you've missed to mention, not what'd you happily like more.

Once again, neither your or my opinion of it matters in what you're trying to say, it's been developed.

I think you're wrong here. The game has certain core audience with some expectations and long-awaited features.

You say, it's been done, and opinions don't matter. What if they implemented some crazy shit, that does not belong to Arma? Idk, like super advanced zombie simulation system:eek:. Time and resources spent, other important features scrapped. It's done, opinions don't matter?

Noone was expecting underwater stuff, instead we did expect essential basic things, important to core gameplay (weapon resting, wind, shooting from vehicles, armor simulation, basic FCS). I don't say it is bad and I won't enjoy it, but the priorities are strange.

Same thing with "3d scopes". Resources spent, but what's the result? Same as before + unrealistic cheaty peripherals let you scan area with huge FOV and zoom, making binoculars obsolete. Oh, but it looks soo nice:rolleyes:

I do not deny, that much work has been put in everything, but certain features just don't matter.

Ok, I agree, they were in ToH. What I won't agree on is that it took no effort to port it. If it were apparently that simple, we'd have one of the things you'd wanted. ToH FM.

We know excuse for ToH FM, "It takes 1 month + 1 physicist per 1 heli to implement it". Competent people did give answer to that.

Right, so it's worthless, non gameplay affecting and we'll waive it right off because it isn't complex. They should have just not done it and let a mod do it, right?

Um.. yeah:) I prefer to have mod for HALO and vanilla weapon resting, not other way around.

Yeah, no one finds it useful when you're first person locked and have to reverse

Armor drivers and commanders sure have something to say about it.:p

Yeah, and your opinion seems to be "they haven't done what I want to be in the game, so it doesn't count" and then everything they actually did, you proceed to dismiss.

I don't claim to be even slightly objective.;)

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I don't claim to be even slightly objective.;)

Ok, fair enough, but I think it's unfair towards the devs to outright dismiss the things they did work on just because they didn't work (or aren't at this point since they're not done yet) on the thing you wanted. There's still a long way towards final and a potential expansion to look forward to features, relevant to either one of us or not. We've had history of great features implemented across titles and expansion packs. A3 so far has to be the most feature-improved single release in the Arma series.

Oh, unmanned vehicles, we also forgot those. Hopefully they'll be different from the A2 implementation of fake crew.

[Mirudes 1]

Not true as I have destroyed many of those vehicles with grenades and then finished with bullets.

Which grenades and rounds would those be? That does matter in addressing SaMatra's remark about lack of "even lighter" vehicles and/or "low tier" AT...

The role of that "low Tier AT" is meant to be the newly introduced heavy sniper rifles (anti material).

[Masharra 10]

The role of that "low Tier AT" is meant to be the newly introduced heavy sniper rifles (anti material).

Newly introduced as into arma 3 or arma series as a whole?

[metalcraze 290]

There's still a long way towards final

No there is not. Going by several recent interviews BIS pretty much finalized everything, no new features are to be expected, they will just polish what's already in.

Meaning that he's very spot on with his complaints.

and a potential expansion to look forward to features, relevant to either one of us or not. We've had history of great features implemented across titles and expansion packs.

Sure, now we will have to wait for an expansion. And then probably a sequel or two.

A3 so far has to be the most feature-improved single release in the Arma series.

Cut out first aid module, simplified medic system, cut out weapon weight and collision, cut out dynamic spawning modules, cut out encumbrance, cut out blinding sun, cut out player suppression fire (but just to be fair - it was cut out in ArmA2 too either in 1.60 or 1.62), AI has been made worse (blindly rushing towards the objective and dying en masse vs. careful approach in A2), lots of "balance" issues.

At least we got a dozen stances while AI is still completely incapable of using a kneeling one unless told to do so, let alone new stances.

Oh, unmanned vehicles, we also forgot those. Hopefully they'll be different from the A2 implementation of fake crew.

Judging by how BIS scrapped almost every single gameplay/AI related promise they've made 2 years ago - wishful thinking.

If you think I'm dramatizing - you can go into the confirmed features thread and compare how much of gameplay/feature stuff promised there is actually in a game.

Improved graphics and new content != feature improvements.

Edited June 23, 2013 by metalcraze

[Sniperwolf572 758]

No there is not. Going by several recent interviews BIS pretty much finalized everything, no new features are to be expected, they will just polish what's already in.

Meaning that he's very spot on with his complaints.

Sure, now we will have to wait for an expansion. And then probably a sequel or two.

Cut out first aid module, simplified medic system, cut out weapon weight and collision, cut out dynamic spawning modules, cut out encumbrance, cut out blinding sun, cut out player suppression fire (but just to be fair - it was cut out in ArmA2 too either in 1.60 or 1.62), AI has been made worse (blindly rushing towards the objective and dying en masse vs. careful approach in A2), lots of "balance" issues.

At least we got a dozen stances while AI is still completely incapable of using a kneeling one unless told to do so, let alone new stances.

Judging by how BIS scrapped almost every single gameplay/AI related promise they've made 2 years ago - wishful thinking.

If you think I'm dramatizing - you can go into the confirmed features thread and compare how much of gameplay/feature stuff promised there is actually in a game.

Improved graphics and new content != feature improvements.

Nobody mentioned graphics or new content, we both have specifically concentrated on gameplay affecting features. Pay attention.

Ok, so they've stopped the feature creep. Are you going to tell me now that it's bad that they will polish all the partly implemented features we have in Arma 3 today? Do we need another launch like Arma 2 where AI didn't work at all? Do we want the new inventory system as is that has plenty of bugs in MP? Do we want to stay at the modding limited attachment system? Do we not want more improvements to vehicles and their PhysX implementation? How about server dependent MP performance that's utterly insane? Do we want all units to be mobile automatic handgrenade launchers?

Also did you miss out on all the features that have been given to you for free in paches for Arma 2? Buckshot implementation, improved engineers, video playback, the rewrite of the network prediction code that reduced the units jaggy movement?

In regards to the AI, I don't see any degradation, they're as stupid as they were in A2. If I place a group in the editor and shoot at them from 1.5km away, they hide behind objects until they locate me then approach and engage me via cover. If we fight in Agia Marina they lean out the corners to cover themselves.

Yeah, they cut out the first aid module, but what are you talking about the simplified medic system? They added FAKs that partially heal you and can be removed from missions, the medic is still a magical wizard except now he has to have an item to heal you fully. Cut out what encumbrance from A2? The non existing one where it made no difference if you were carrying all the things in the world or nothing and you'd still sprint the same duration but now you get tired much faster?

And by your claim that they scrapped the every single gameplay related promise one would think we're getting Arma 2 with new island and models. Fuck me. Yes you're dramatizing as usual.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Alwarren 2765]

Ok, so they've stopped the feature creep.

Speaking of paying attention: "Feature Creep" refers to keep adding features that delay or jeopardize the release. Adding essential features is not feature creep, it's implementation.

Are you going to tell me now that it's bad that they will polish all the partly implemented features we have in Arma 3 today?

I think the point is that it isn't the tie to start polishing if essential features like inertia or first aid system are still missing.

Yeah, they cut out the first aid module, but what are you talking about the simplified medic system? They added FAKs that partially heal you and can be removed from missions, the medic is still a magical wizard except now he has to have an item to heal you fully.

The point is they added FAK's that already make a medic less useful (even if they are no called Combat Life Saver - by Jove) and there is way too little punishment for being shot, so yeah, compared to the first aid modules this system is exactly what everybody was bitching about when Dragon Rising came out.

I am not for being overly pessimistic, but looking through the rose tinted glasses is not going to help, and if everybody that points out a problem is a whiner, then yeah, call me a whiner.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Speaking of paying attention: "Feature Creep" refers to keep adding features that delay or jeopardize the release. Adding essential features is not feature creep, it's implementation.

I think the point is that it isn't the tie to start polishing if essential features like inertia or first aid system are still missing.

The point is they added FAK's that already make a medic less useful (even if they are no called Combat Life Saver - by Jove) and there is way too little punishment for being shot, so yeah, compared to the first aid modules this system is exactly what everybody was bitching about when Dragon Rising came out.

I am not for being overly pessimistic, but looking through the rose tinted glasses is not going to help, and if everybody that points out a problem is a whiner, then yeah, call me a whiner.

So you're saying that feature creep means adding more features that delay or jeopardize the release and then that adding more features is not feature creep and will not delay or jeopardize the release? Color me confused.

Also did I not just point out a ton of problems above? The game and all the new features that WERE added are still buggy.

And for the record, I'm not calling anyone a whiner, you said that. I have utmost respect for everyone who discusses things on these forums. Also for those who can see the game for what it is (a buggy beta) and in turn not ignoring all the advances that did happen and pissing on the devs saying they did fuck all for the time the game has been in development.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[Variable 322]

Another "Balancing" victim: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?157363-New-sidearm-anyone-else-have-trouble-believing-its-9mm&p=2421107&viewfull=1#post2421107

---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

I have utmost respect for everyone who discusses things on these forums. Also for those who can see the game for what it is (a buggy beta) and in turn not ignoring all the advances that did happen and pissing on the devs saying they did fuck all for the time the game has been in development.

Respectfully, I think you are missing the point. The point is a discussion of whether the features that were added and invested upon contribute, or not, to Arma core gameplay. And if one feels that the game deviates from its main core, by implementation of features that do not contribute to that core, or even worse, go against it, one must protest.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Variable

[Alwarren 2765]

So you're saying that feature creep means adding more features that delay or jeopardize the release and then that adding more features is not feature creep and will not delay or jeopardize the release? Color me confused.

What I am trying to say is that the game should not be released in this state at all. There are some problems that are just going to be major game breaker IF they are retrofitted after release. I am concerned that things like the medical system (the same thing that was laughed down when Dragon Rising came out) are broken.

Also did I not just point out a ton of problems above? The game and all the new features that WERE added are still buggy.

Yes, all the more reason to be concerned.

And for the record, I'm not calling anyone a whiner, you said that. I have utmost respect for everyone who discusses things on these forums. Also for those who can see the game for what it is (a buggy beta) and in turn not ignoring all the advances that did happen and pissing on the devs saying they did fuck all for the time the game has been in development.

Not the point I was trying to make. While some maybe "pissing on the devs" as you say, it certainly isn't me, nor metalcraze. Pointing out what I think is an issue, or pointing to announced features that have gone missing along the way is not "pissing on the devs". Matter of fact is, this game has been in development for quite a while, and the lack of progress in a lot of areas cannot be just explained away with "the incident". As it looks to me, it's all because DayZ gets more attention, plus BIS is ready to go a long way off for the sake of balancing.

Yes, that worries me. A lot actually.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Respectfully, I think you are missing the point. The point is a discussion of whether the features that were added and invested upon contribute, or not, to Arma core gameplay. And if one feels that the game deviates from its main core, by implementation of features that do not contribute to that core, or even worse, go against it, one must protest.

I fully agree with that and you might be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'd also rather have a fully functional proper medical system akin to the first aid module, the M1911 be .45, proper flightmodel for the helos, vehicles not being set upright when they flip, etc. And I'll raise my hand with you in those protests. Am I speaking against such things? But even so I see no reason to spit on features such as diving, physx for vehicles which has enormous potential to make vehicles more in line to what they are in the real world and everything else that's here and good and needs to be improved. Are those features not in line with the core? Do the divers not exist? Are the ground vehicles in real life more like Arma 2 or Arma 3?

[chortles 263]

I don't believe that any of us was purporting that "the incident" -- or DayZ -- had everything to do with the lack of progress. Even before the incident, the prior project lead had that one interview (with GameStar.de?) that was basically walking back a bunch of the hyped claims from 2011 and 2012 with lines like "no progress in this area" or "we're not doing this".

[Sniperwolf572 758]

What I am trying to say is that the game should not be released in this state at all. There are some problems that are just going to be major game breaker IF they are retrofitted after release. I am concerned that things like the medical system (the same thing that was laughed down when Dragon Rising came out) are broken.

I am saying that too. Not even the devs are saying "let's release the game as it is". They're just setting themselves goals and deadlines. And they'll probably breach them aswell, not for a second am I assuming that Q3 is a realistic target. Q4 maybe. But those goals don't have to mean, as they did not in the past, that it's over. They've communicated very strangely in regards the weapon resting recently. We might see it in the final, we might not, but I'm certain it's one of the features that, when they've reached the goals for the 1.0, and it's not there, they'll say "Well, now we have all these features that we didn't deliver, which one can we bring to 1.1?"

Not the point I was trying to make. While some maybe "pissing on the devs" as you say, it certainly isn't me, nor metalcraze. Pointing out what I think is an issue, or pointing to announced features that have gone missing along the way is not "pissing on the devs". Matter of fact is, this game has been in development for quite a while, and the lack of progress in a lot of areas cannot be just explained away with "the incident". As it looks to me, it's all because DayZ gets more attention, plus BIS is ready to go a long way off for the sake of balancing.

Well, not you, but some others yes. I can pull out some quotes if you'd like.

And why'd you reference "the incident" anyway, nobody is saying that. Not even the devs, they'd rather not discuss it with the public. People are pushing it on them, from the E3 interviewers, to the community.

From what I've seen at E3, DayZ looks worse off and has strayed more from the path than Arma 3 regarding features and the "core" gameplay, but that's not the point.

[metalcraze 290]

Ok, so they've stopped the feature creep. Are you going to tell me now that it's bad that they will polish all the partly implemented features we have in Arma 3 today? Do we need another launch like Arma 2 where AI didn't work at all? Do we want the new inventory system as is that has plenty of bugs in MP? Do we want to stay at the modding limited attachment system? Do we not want more improvements to vehicles and their PhysX implementation? How about server dependent MP performance that's utterly insane? Do we want all units to be mobile automatic handgrenade launchers?

No - one thing is just not adding new features apart from mostly cosmetic ones which after 3 years dev time is bad in itself. Another thing is cutting out perfectly working features of A2 for the sake of "streamlining" and then slapping "balance" breaking the gameplay further to appeal to the mainstream crowd.

Also did you miss out on all the features that have been given to you for free in paches for Arma 2? Buckshot implementation, improved engineers, video playback, the rewrite of the network prediction code that reduced the units jaggy movement?

So fixes for DLC compatibility and bugfixes? Sure I should be grateful for BIS fixing years old bugs in their game many years later.

In regards to the AI, I don't see any degradation, they're as stupid as they were in A2. If I place a group in the editor and shoot at them from 1.5km away, they hide behind objects until they locate me then approach and engage me via cover. If we fight in Agia Marina they lean out the corners to cover themselves.

Try launching the proper mission. Like Infantry and Combined Arms showcase. And watch AI just getting slaughtered because they simply charge enemies without staying behind cover and concealment and waiting until it's clear. Jay Crowe himself said "we didn't like how long it takes for AI to navigate through areas so we sped it up" at E3 2012. In A2 AI does not rush enemies, it won't even move until it's 100% clear. Players themselves do that in MP.

Yeah, they cut out the first aid module, but what are you talking about the simplified medic system? They added FAKs that partially heal you and can be removed from missions, the medic is still a magical wizard except now he has to have an item to heal you fully.

Should I dePBO existing missions and remove FAKs myself? Or not use them on purpose? Before when you were shot in the leg only medic could've fixed this. With first aid module you required first aid to stop the bleeding before you die. With current medic system you can't bleed out, injuries are non existent and FAK easily removes any negative effects of having 3 bullets in your leg in just 4 seconds.

4 seconds long health regen with a single click of a button. Not even Dragon Rising has it that bad. And you are OK with stuff like this? With first aid module gone?

Cut out what encumbrance from A2? The non existing one where it made no difference if you were carrying all the things in the world or nothing and you'd still sprint the same duration but now you get tired much faster?

Encumbrance from very first alpha build of march 5. Where if you put on way too much stuff (like AT launcher, mg, backpack filled with rockets) you couldn't even run. Now you can put on ridiculous amount of stuff and run around without a single negative effect but slightly increased aim shake which, unlike in ArmA2, is completely negated the moment you kneel or go prone.

And by your claim that they scrapped the every single gameplay related promise one would think we're getting Arma 2 with new island and models. Fuck me. Yes you're dramatizing as usual.

Where's TOH FM? Where are deployable bipods? Where's AI being able to navigate buildings fine (Ivan claimed they can at E3 2011)? Where's improved AI pathfinding and other promised "evolution"? Where's JAVA? Where's improved medic system? Where's windage? Where's mumble link or any other improvement over VON?

And what's with sides mirroring each other. Devs said that in beta we'll see that they are not mirrored - and yet they still are.

It's certainly not ArmA2 with new content. It's ArmA3 which is made first and foremost with an aim to please arcade shooter player. It's the undeniable truth. Tell me it's not as you sprint up 85 degree slope with an AT, antimateriel sniper rifle and full backpack and suffer no consequences.

Rest of us will either have to accept this or move back to ArmA2 (which is a lot better game atm) or do not play it at all since we have no alternative.

[byku 13]

And what's with sides mirroring each other. Devs said that in beta we'll see that they are not mirrored - and yet they still are.

Well, they aren't. Mi-48 and comanche are hugely different, so does new APCs. Although.... i agree mostly with you.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Try launching the proper mission. Like Infantry and Combined Arms showcase. And watch AI just getting slaughtered because they simply charge enemies without staying behind cover and concealment and waiting until it's clear. Jay Crowe himself said "we didn't like how long it takes for AI to navigate through areas so we sped it up" at E3 2012. In A2 AI does not rush enemies, it won't even move until it's 100% clear. Players themselves do that in MP.

I'll fully reply to your post later, as I've got to go now, but I'll say that I played all the Showcases last night and with Infantry and Combined Arms these were my observations and experiences, no addons.

In Infantry the first group that supposedly killed the pointman hid in the little treeline in the valley and were engaging us, my squad, on contact, dropped prone and returned fire. We then advanced towards that treeline and were engaged by the AI group that advanced from the town through that treeline and had a little skirmish in it. My team healed up and we then got engaged from the north hill, the enemy was hitting us from above taking cover next to trees again, solved that with the GL. We then got engaged from the town and our medic died as he was running to heal someone. The enemy stayed in town and my guys stayed in the valley treeline while I flanked to the south hill and engaged the enemy in town scattered amongst buildings. My team advanced and were promptly eliminated by the mortar fire. The rest is just killing the two spotters with a few shots and mission over.

Combined Arms went decently as well, the enemy were in the camp, hiding behind hescoes, except one guy at the gate. As soon as we left the Ghosthawks, I broke formation and climbed the hill to eliminate the Marid in the base (I knew it was there due to the stream). Infantry around me advanced through the little treeline, stopping at the broken truck for cover and other teams went flanking left and right. I broke the formation again and went to the right near a little dugout with concrete where AMV ended up engaging from and a couple of soldiers were in that same dugout. The enemy mostly got eliminated due to the RAH-66 and AMV's positioning so it saw everything and enemy had no AT to engage it with. When we took the base, the AMV advanced in it planting itself next to the trucks, infantry was all behind hesco's at the base entrance. At first I was at the hesco's closest to the incoming reinforcements, but pulled back to the friendly infantry at the gate due to being engaged by the enemy GL's. The enemy advanced through the treeline and stopped to engage us as soon as contact was made, AMV once again ripped them to shreds as I picked off the few AT guys that were in their squads. Two enemy soldiers retreated and I had to hunt them down as friendlies were just sitting at the base. When they were killed, we advanced to the LZ meeting no infantry.

I got killed really fast in the Night showcase as the enemy outflanked me after I holed up behind a building at the first checkpoint thing and didn't try it again.

The Commanding showcase was pretty straightforward, I followed the plan that was voiced and took positions on the hill to the south, we set up an ambush and were in the hold fire, do not engage stealth mode. The enemy boat was apparently looking for us but at no point could he see us because we were behind terrain (I saw it because I'm a filthy cheater that uses the commander view at times). When the first wave of enemies entered the town, I let my team loose and they were minced meat in about 30 seconds, then I picked off the boat crew (It ended up with it's engines on and full right steering, going in circles unpiloted). Another group advanced over the north hill and as I didn't order stealth again, were promptly eliminated as they crested the hill. Some went through the bushes to the east but got lit up as I was advancing into the town on my own to look for survivors. One guy from the initial wave was apparently in the town as well and went to retreat, my team killed him just before I managed to as he left cover.

Other showcases are straightforward non-important stuff from what I can tell for the purpose of this exercise. The largest "fuck yea" moment? When I realized that you can no longer get range from the spacebar cursor.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[bad benson 1733]

Try launching the proper mission. Like Infantry and Combined Arms showcase. And watch AI just getting slaughtered because they simply charge enemies without staying behind cover and concealment and waiting until it's clear. Jay Crowe himself said "we didn't like how long it takes for AI to navigate through areas so we sped it up" at E3 2012. In A2 AI does not rush enemies, it won't even move until it's 100% clear. Players themselves do that in MP.

i agree with most of your points but it's just not true that arma 2's AI was better (without mods). it's a typical case of placebo. if you watched them closely in arma 2 you saw that they simple were super slow and uneffective around objects. that might create the illusion that they were more causious and stayed longer in cover but that's not the case. that got painfully obvious if the cover they were in would suck and not totally cover them up like big houses.

in fact they are much better around objects now. it just makes other weaknesses more obvious since they are done more quickly navigating out of groups of objects and can run right into your crosshairs faster, which they did a lot in arma 2 too.

it only makes sense. all that has been done is tweak the old AI. to a point now where they navigate urban areas better (excluding interiors of houses of course :rolleyes:)

FAK easily removes any negative effects of having 3 bullets in your leg in just 4 seconds.

and most importantly. you can do this over and over and over and over...

you will always get back to 75% health. this means you can infiltrate a base alone and get shot a 100 times as long as you kill 100 enemies and take their FAKs. there is no way of sugar coating this. it may sound minor to some people but just apply it to more actual gameplay situations and you'll see the impact.

if you just look at it as a mechanic then it's exactly the same as in that shooter "the darkness". in that you had to rip apart dead enemies and like eat their hearts or something to get health back. it's exactly the same. minus the cool effects:p

the missing 25% of health are just a lame way of trying to make the actual medic relevant. which doesn't work since you won't notice a difference to 100% anyways.

i refuse to believe that it's too hard or takes too many resources to make people actually bleed out and use FAKs only for stopping the bleeding. that then would be a perfectly fine system and would give the medic purpose. things don't have to be complicated to make sense.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Bad Benson
"don't" missing in last sentence

[metalcraze 290]

Sniperwolf572 your post actually shows well what I mean.

All your examples have "I did this, I did that, I broke formation to kill enemies first, I GL'ed enemies". Yes exactly, because if you don't take it upon yourself to kill as many enemies as possible before they can pose a threat to your team - your team will get slaughtered. Still when I played COmbined Arms showcase 4 of my squadleaders died in a row because they didn't have orders like the rest of the squad and kept moving to the objective which is the issue.

Commanding showcase is besides the point since it's enemies that are advancing.

[froggyluv 2130]

Well I've always said if BF3 gave me an editor and let me go wherever I want I'd like it - guess we sort of have that now :p

Personally I love the potentiality of PhysX, ragdoll, PiP but of course would also love to have a more fully realized CQB AI, weapon rest, tank interiors and more realistic Armour penetration all while being fully optimized across all cores and 99% GPU utilization -but it just ain't gonna happen. Call it resignation or realism, those requests may now lie outside the scope of what Bi now sees as the franchise. From a fan's perspective we may be pissed/saddened/outrage'ed etc..but from a business perspective BI sees that a far less demanding fanbase and game (insert any BI zombie based game here) simply makes more revenue at far less resource cost. In that very real and maybe harsh light (as well as the greek incident), I'm pretty happy to have the '3' at all. I'm fairly certain that there was a point in development when 3 was seriously considered to be put on the chop block and laid to rest for good.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well I've always said if BF3 gave me an editor and let me go wherever I want I'd like it - guess we sort of have that now :p

Personally I love the potentiality of PhysX, ragdoll, PiP but of course would also love to have a more fully realized CQB AI, weapon rest, tank interiors and more realistic Armour penetration all while being fully optimized across all cores and 99% GPU utilization -but it just ain't gonna happen. Call it resignation or realism, those requests may now lie outside the scope of what Bi now sees as the franchise. From a fan's perspective we may be pissed/saddened/outrage'ed etc..but from a business perspective BI sees that a far less demanding fanbase and game (insert any BI zombie based game here) simply makes more revenue at far less resource cost. In that very real and maybe harsh light (as well as the greek incident), I'm pretty happy to have the '3' at all. I'm fairly certain that there was a point in development when 3 was seriously considered to be put on the chop block and laid to rest for good.

That sums it up quite well. Mixed feelings to say the least. But mods will save the day as usual.

[byku 13]

...

... and that would be totally illogical from BIS side. Instead of creating awesome and realistic sim, unique and one of a kind, they would create something... generic? Abandoning the mil-fans, so Arma would be bought by people who thought that it was too tough before? Finally by creating something for the masses they would create something for no one. If someone comes here, it is not because they've heard it's "easier", "accessible" but because they heard that it is the "ultimate war SIMULATION", realistic, immerse and what will happen they will arive? They will discover that you can destroy tank with machine gun fire, wind doesn't affect bullets, using rockets is "tabing" and killing with sniper rifle from 2,3km is piece a cake.

Arma is community! They will finally get to know all the flaws, and instead of convincing their friends to join, they will point that it is not a sim... it's a military sandbox game, but not a sim, and if you're looking for a game(fast paced, "interesting") - you've got BF and COD. BIS - be famous! be unique! be brave!

Edited June 23, 2013 by Byku