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almanzo

AI accuracy: To good, to bad or good as it is?

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I made a mission to play with a friend the other day, and he wanted to play as a sniper. I made a mission where we approached from the airport to the largest town. There are two hills between those places, ideal for sniping and with good overview of the town. The AI skill level was at standard, mission difficulty at regular.

We spotted, by using scopes, a few infantry 700 meters out. We opened fire, and within 5 seconds the AI responded and where hitting us shortly after.

I feel this is a bit overpowered. First of all, they where able to pinpoint our location based on a few shots from a very far distance. I have played for a long time with an experienced group in ARMA II, and we usually spend much more time locating enemies who fire at us at much shorter distances than the AI does, even though we where behind cover.

How do you experience the AI accuracy, do you think they are to accurate? How do you feel about their ability to spot you?

My response is that accuracy at long ranges is way to high, and that their awareness is way to high too.

I wan't to gather as many points of view as possible before making a ticket.

Tweaking the AI in these regards isn't a big deal as I've come to understand. I expect this to become better, but it's quite useful to have more points of view before poining it out.

Any thoughts?

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Lowering the AIskill has a lot of effect on both accuracy and spotting distance. so just put it lower until you find the sweet spot.

I assume that the AI works pretty much the same as in older games, where if you hit an AI he will automatically know your position, and that information is automatically shared with his group, so you may want to take that into account. Overall i think it is better balanced than ArmA2, with increased engagement ranges and lower accuracy by default.

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I think they are indeedd to accurate, I think they achieve this with superior recoil management. Their shots land extremely close to each other even if they fire full auto.

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Some tweaking needs to be done, as they are too accurate in some situations and not accurate enough in others.

One thing to remember however is that we are now fighting well trained soldiers, no more Takistani's who can't hit a barn door, these modern dudes are just as good as you. So from that point of view I do not mind that they can hit me as easily as I can hit them.

Not a fan of how ridiculously quick they can spot me though. In situations where I would have no idea where the fire is coming from, the AI would easily detect it.

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The AI accuracy at the moment seems fine to me. My only (Fixed typo lol) complaint is that they spot too quickly.

For example: I'm sitting on top of a hill (Using the "high prone" stance) 600 meters away using a suppressed M14 EBR... I shoot the windshield of an Ifrit and it automatically spots me even though it didn't even hear my shot or see any sort of muzzle flash.

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The AI accuracy at the moment seems fine to me. My online complaint is that they spot too quickly.

And too slowly at short distance.

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Neither. It is too static. it needs to be dynamic based on battlefield factors. Ie. fatigue, stress, knowledge of the target etc. The ai shouldn't only be spitting out rapid inaccurate shots, but neither should they only be making slow accurate shots. They should be switching up depending on the situation they are in.

I assume that the AI works pretty much the same as in older games, where if you hit an AI he will automatically know your position, and that information is automatically shared with his group, so you may want to take that into account. Overall i think it is better balanced than ArmA2, with increased engagement ranges and lower accuracy by default.

Yep if your within 700 mtres and hit one, him and his squaddies automatically gain info on your position - I really wish this was taken out. It makes it a bad thing to actually hit an ai if you don't have solid cover nearby.

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Lowering the AIskill has a lot of effect on both accuracy and spotting distance. so just put it lower until you find the sweet spot.

I assume that the AI works pretty much the same as in older games, where if you hit an AI he will automatically know your position, and that information is automatically shared with his group, so you may want to take that into account. Overall i think it is better balanced than ArmA2, with increased engagement ranges and lower accuracy by default.

The default skill setting in the editor is at 10 percent or something with the fireteams, it was really low. I did lower it down to 0%, but with little effect. (Am I right when having the slider all the way to the left is the lowest skill setting?)

And of course, AI with scopes should be more accurate at long ranges, but as it is now, even AI with holo or iron sights are able to land shots way too accurate. When fireing at that distance, you need to estimate range, adjust for unprecise range adjustments, in addition to having a small target. I have no chance hitting a target without scope at 700 meters. The AI does...

But I agree, reaction time and awareness is the biggest issue. The comfusion that appairs when you recieve incomming fire and don't know from where is stressfull. The whole point of ambushes is exactly to comfuse and suprise... If the AI instantly knows where you are and are able to return fire within seconds, ambushes are really not useful. Same with long range engagements. When you are allmost 800 meters away from someone and you see them, you have a huge advantage. Not so much in ARMA III.

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The default skill setting in the editor is at 10 percent or something with the fireteams, it was really low. I did lower it down to 0%, but with little effect. (Am I right when having the slider all the way to the left is the lowest skill setting?)

I meant the aiskill option in the difficulty settings, though they both have do pretty much the same, and both are taken into account. The one in the difficulty settings should be used to make the game easier/harder, the one in the mission editor is to give different units different skill levels.

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Too accurate for me at this moment.

And too slowly at short distance.

Yeah. I aggree on both.

Overall I think is good AI for the early stage of the alpha, but need to be tweaked.

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Mission makers can manually edit the AI's behaviour to be set to a high level so they're 'smart' but then specify that their accuracy be much lower, more in the reasonable range, in the init.sqf file. Reference these two BWiki pages. https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill For the overall skill, I'd recommend somewhere in the .70 - .85 range, and then use https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array, specifically using aimingAccuracy to put it somewhere in the .25 - .35 range.You'll find the AI performs much more favourably this way, being smart and aggressive while not shooting like they're all Match grade marksmen

Edit: Oh, and as a user make sure that your difficulty settings DON'T have super AI on.

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Mission makers can manually edit the AI's behaviour to be set to a high level so they're 'smart' but then specify that their accuracy be much lower, more in the reasonable range, in the init.sqf file. Reference these two BWiki pages. https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill For the overall skill, I'd recommend somewhere in the .70 - .85 range, and then use https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setSkill_array, specifically using aimingAccuracy to put it somewhere in the .25 - .35 range.You'll find the AI performs much more favourably this way, being smart and aggressive while not shooting like they're all Match grade marksmen

Edit: Oh, and as a user make sure that your difficulty settings DON'T have super AI on.

yep, in the init of all my missions I am starting to put:

{_x setSkill ["aimingaccuracy", 0.15];_x setSkill ["aimingshake", 0.15];_x setSkill ["spottime", 0.15];} forEach allUnits;

Then in my profile I have skill and precision set to .99.

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What BI should do is just adjust for even more increased spotting distance, and lower accuracy by default. Pretty much everyone agrees that the default accuracy is too high. And while it can be changed, it shouldnt have to, and since this is the alpha this is the time to change the default settings.

Unfortunately i couldnt find a decent issue about this on the bugtracker, and i am not entirely sure if it belongs there, but it definitely requires attention.

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Does the AI's accuracy get effected by suppression?

Because in ARMA 2 getting suppressed means that your character starts breathing more and this makes aiming harder but I have no idea if this affects the AI. Many times in arma 2 they've just instantly turned around and killed me.

Its funny though since AI in arma can be incredibly accurate at long distance but very slow in close range. I think AI accuracy should be effected by:

- Distance

- Auto and single shots

- Suppression

- Fatigue

- Injuries

- Stance

- Weapons recoil

- Scope/non scope (or other attachment)

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I think the AI is excellent as far as engagement distance goes, but at long ranges they are too precise. I am reminded of the first Arma 2 patches and the OFP AI.

At short distance so far they´ve been rather fast for me, way, way, way faster than anything I´ve seen in A2. But my brother has a beefier rig than mine (all sliders in gfx on Ultra, to illustrate), while my own system where I am finally installing A3Alpha at this very moment is of 2008 vintage.

However, I think the AI needs tweaking, not just in the accuracy departement.

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And too slowly at short distance.

This has always annoyed me. You have AI that instantly know your position and can lay down accurate fire consistently from huge ranges even when you are just peeking your rifle out from behind a rock.

But then...

Get a AI in close quarters and they can just look at you for 2-3 seconds without doing anything... what the hell.

It ruins engagements as in the escape from Stratis mission it was easier to just avoid AI completely than try and sneakily engage them. My friend and I had eyes on 4 enemy AI and we decided who was taking what two enemies and the second the first shot hit the rest of the AI instantly turned around and landed a shot on both of us... Ruins half the fun.

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This has always annoyed me. You have AI that instantly know your position and can lay down accurate fire consistently from huge ranges even when you are just peeking your rifle out from behind a rock.

But then...

Get a AI in close quarters and they can just look at you for 2-3 seconds without doing anything... what the hell.

It ruins engagements as in the escape from Stratis mission it was easier to just avoid AI completely than try and sneakily engage them. My friend and I had eyes on 4 enemy AI and we decided who was taking what two enemies and the second the first shot hit the rest of the AI instantly turned around and landed a shot on both of us... Ruins half the fun.

Not always true. I was just taunting an AI outside of a window ( he tried to shoot me but window was bugged bulletproof) so I quickly entered the house and into his room where he turned a rapid quick 180 and shot me dead. So far they seem quicker than Arma 2 Vanilla. Strong CPU helps as well.

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Does the AI's accuracy get effected by suppression?

Because in ARMA 2 getting suppressed means that your character starts breathing more and this makes aiming harder but I have no idea if this affects the AI. Many times in arma 2 they've just instantly turned around and killed me.

Its funny though since AI in arma can be incredibly accurate at long distance but very slow in close range. I think AI accuracy should be effected by:

- Distance

- Auto and single shots

- Suppression

- Fatigue

- Injuries

- Stance

- Weapons recoil

- Scope/non scope (or other attachment)

This. Currently some of those things do effect the ai (stance and weapon recoil as far as I know). But the rest should all have an effect as well. I think it is unfair to totally nerf the ai's accuracy altogether. It needs to be decreased and increased based on the situation.

Ie. an ai sniper that is undetected and in cover should not suffer from a 0.1 precision. On the other hand, a fatigued ai using ironsights who is underfire/suppressed should be less accurate than 0.1 precision and really shouldn't be able to hit anything more than 25 metres away.

I think simply making the ai more accurate or less accurate is not the answer because we will always get situations where the ai should have been better or should have been worse. Their skill must be dynamic in order for them to appear human, because a humans abilities are also dependent on the situation they are in.

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Its funny though since AI in arma can be incredibly accurate at long distance but very slow in close range. I think AI accuracy should be effected by:

- Distance

In. (Passively)

- Auto and single shots

Not really sure, AI doesnt really seem to do full auto anyway.

- Suppression

In.

- Fatigue

In.

- Injuries

In.

- Stance

In.

- Weapons recoil

In.

- Scope/non scope (or other attachment)

Weapons influence engagement range.

The arm sway is handled the same for AI as for players as far as i can tell, and has been since OFP. (Except for suppression, which was added in ArmA2)

The problem is that they can handle it too well, and thus their default accuracy should be changed.

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Hi, on the ArmA & ArmA2 the main problem with the AI, was... that they were aware too fast of your possition just by hearing a single shot from your rifle; they should limit the engagement ranges at the max range of each.

- 400m for basic infantry/AR.

- 500m for Adv. Marksman/x4 scoped ARs.

- 600m for Basic Sniper/x8 scoped 7.62 rifles.

- 800m to 1200m for H.Sniper x8/x12 12.7 rifles.

And giving 'em a change of hit of the 65% at those max ranges; making 'em want to get close to the "perfect engagement distance", being this, half of the max recommended distance, 200 for 400, 250 for 500, 300 for 600 etc.. . The problem wasn't their accuray but their awareness; by the comments... seems that this problem has agravated now on the ArmA3.

IRL, they recommend you to never shoot at targets beyond 100m with a 5.56, 200 to 250m with a 7.62; this is for have a short distance between your possition and the targets possition, to flank faster, the shorter the distance that you're at... the less distance that you'll have to run for flank effectively and in time, aside... to magnify the damage of the weapon; this case the 5.56 but it works too for the 7.62. In fact they tell you to wait to be at like 80m to shoot with a 5.56 if you want to kill the target, you can land effective bursts and also automatic fire at that range, but you're tripping if you think that you gonna hit something at 200m shooting in Full Auto or even burst, you only gonna waste ammo. The ArmA & ArmA2 didn't reflected this reality, seems that the ArmA3 neither does it.

Now that they don't spect to fight vs big structured armys but againists small groups with guerrilla tactics... they seem to want to produce kills instead wounded, that's why they are changing the 5.56 LMGs for 7.62 ones, even IWI is chambering the Tavors to 7.62 because of this. They should reduce the engagement ranges for the AI to make suppression fire at the max range of the weapon (400m for the basic AR, i.e) and let the effective fire for half the distance, if they want to make the AI behave as IRL the trained units do. Let's C ya

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Weapons influence engagement range.

The arm sway is handled the same for AI as for players as far as i can tell, and has been since OFP. (Except for suppression, which was added in ArmA2)

The problem is that they can handle it too well, and thus their default accuracy should be changed.

Ai doesn't seem to suffer from arm sway now if you watch from their perspective. This also mean they are not effected by fatigue or injuries. Recoil is a factor in ai shooting but it does not effect accuracy as much as it effect ROF - they simply fire slower to get their shot on target, rather than spray and miss. Suppression is no longer present for ai or players.

Overall ai is more static and aimbotish now than it was in arma 2, though I am sure BIS don't mean to leave it this way.

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Ai doesn't seem to suffer from arm sway now if you watch from their perspective. This also mean they are not effected by fatigue or injuries.

Thats new then, because it used to be in. I stand corrected.

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Am I correct in assuming the precision sliders have no effect in multi? The difficulty options are seperate from the sp ones right?

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Am I correct in assuming the precision sliders have no effect in multi? The difficulty options are seperate from the sp ones right?

Yes, server decides.

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