Mig-29

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ July 12 2002,05:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I happen to believe that Socialism would be nice too. In fact perfect. Until you introduce humans into the equation, then somewhere along the line, something goes horribly wrong.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, it's called greed and ambition. <span id='postcolor'>

Absolutley not! If one man works harder than another he deserves his rewards. Most people happen to cherish the freedom to improve themselves and their circumstances through ingenuity and entreprenureship.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 12 2002,05:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Absolutley not! If one man works harder than another he deserves his rewards. Most people happen to cherish the freedom to improve themselves and their circumstances through ingenuity and entreprenureship.<span id='postcolor'>

In a perfect world yes.  Indeed in a capitalist societ that is how many achieve great things...however many also achieve greatness by stepping all over those who have less power and by decieving and misleading those who support their affluence....something we are seeing now.  I doubt there will be many more "Enrons & Worldcom's".  More then likely investigations are all paper tigers right now because any more such companies popping up would cause economic disaster.  Most of those companies who were manipulating the books are probably quietly but quickly trying to put their house in order.    Anyways both socialism and capitalism theoretically have much to author.  The best form of government I believe is one that balances capitalism with careful usage of socialism where capitalism is not in the best interest of a country's residents.    Case in point...all the deregulation of industries all over the U.S..... The result...increased costs for consumers instead of the promised lower costs.  That's why we got California going after energy price gougers and other shady capitalist practices.   Theoretically pure capitalism is a grand and noble thing...but in the real world, corporations can not always be trusted to do the right thing.     Thus the need for government controls for critical services, in other words, some type of socialism.  We are already seeing the obvious need for that emerge in medicine especially with prescription drugs for the elderly (here in the US)....like it or not socialism is being forced upon Americans because there are few other choices sometimes.  Socialism is not a dirty thing...only the abuse of socialism is. I think too much big government poking it's nose into my business is a bad thing...but sometimes government has to do it's job to protect it's citizens.

I think the American health care system needs to be socialized more...and when it gets too bloated it will be privatized again...and when that gets too excessive cost-wise it'll go back to socialized again....ect.. ect...  

You use what works at the time, and if it doesn't work you move on to something else.   That's the way good government works.  It's flexible.

So in other words learn the difference between communism and socialism.  Socialism does not mean a lack of freedom.  If done right it means greater protection from capitalistic abuses in critical areas of public welfare which equals to more freedom and security.  Sometimes it's needed, sometimes it's not.  But it's not inherently anti-freedom, or anti-democratic or anything.  

Anyways long live capitalism and socialism.  May they both thrive together in this world!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ July 11 2002,08:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I happen to believe that Socialism would be nice too. In fact perfect. Until you introduce humans into the equation, then somewhere along the line, something goes horribly wrong.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, it's called greed and ambition. <span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. Charming race, aren't we?

[OFPman 0]

ooooo, i can picture how fast the mig29 with be ^_^

[Guest]

Please keep the discussion limited to the Mig-29. We have a lovely Offtopic forum where you can discuss communism and other such topics, and that's where I'll move this thread if it continues to stray offtopic

[Scorpio 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OFPman @ July 12 2002,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ooooo, i can picture how fast the mig29 with be ^_^<span id='postcolor'>

it will be the same speed as the F-16

[SpetsnazWarriorX 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ July 09 2002,21:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpetsnazWarriorX @ July 09 2002,22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I never quite saw the use of SAMS in OFP... Still don't. Explain to me a good scenario someone's had with SAMS and planes. I think only flight sims recreate this effectively, but I could always be wrong...   ALSO: Why is it that the 'fighter' planes in OFP never perform any evasive manouevres? i.e. you're on their six, and all they do is turn in a wide circle, or just carry on straight - even if the AI skill is set to highest. Is there any way you can get them to perform sharp turns or loops? Or even launch some AAs/fire cannons at you? It would seem rather more appropriate for the F-16 to want to jink left and right, in order to appear on my Hawk's six, instead of sluggishly turning wide    The choppers seem to be intent on shooting down my plane if I go head to head, or if I just happen to be turning slowly. Either way, just a little point I wanted to... erm... point out  <span id='postcolor'>

The game engine wont accomodate it as you well know.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, I didn't know     [Whoa! Keep away from a topic for less than one day, and look how it piles up with political and sentimental crap!    ]

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ July 12 2002,00:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, whatever. The SS got imprisoned or shot, the NKVD got medals and pensions.

Personally, I'd be ashamed to be associated with any organisation with such a past, but that's just me. My dad was an ordinary Polish Soldier who just barely survived Siberia, so my particular dislike of Communism is hard wired.

I doubt anything I can say will change your mind on the subject.<span id='postcolor'>

So are all Christians evil because of the Crusades, or the Spanish Inquisition...? You can't paint a whole group as evil because one particular faction belonging to that group committed evil acts.

Communism isn't evil.

Stalin was evil.

Do you see the difference?

[desantnik 0]

Thank you Fubar, my father worked for the Navy, the Soviet Navy, does that make him a babykiller? I dont think so, its not communism thats the problem its the human factors. Beria killed my Grandma's father who was a kolkhoz worker does that make all the people in the NKVD evil? not really I just blame Beria who was shot anyway but moving on with the Topic at hand....

[Guest]

You can't say that I didn't warn you.

Moving to Offtopic where you can continue your discussion

[Stag 0]

You should have locked the damned thing down.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (desantnik @ July 12 2002,09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thank you Fubar, my father worked for the Navy, the Soviet Navy, does that make him a babykiller?<span id='postcolor'>

Nope. Your father and your mother, I'm sure are very fine people. However, the Communist regime which you seem to be so proud of failed to do anything to prosecute those people who perpetrated the atrocities I've brought up. The modern Catholic church is quite rightfully ashamed of the things that were done in its name in the middle ages, The modern Communist party however, try to explain its not their fault.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (desantnik @ July 12 2002,09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont think so, its not communism thats the problem its the human factors.<span id='postcolor'>

I wholeheartedly agree. but it seems that some political systems are open to greater abuse by humans than others. where has Communism really worked?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (desantnik @ July 12 2002,09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Beria killed my Grandma's father who was a kolkhoz worker does that make all the people in the NKVD evil? not really  I just blame Beria who was shot anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry I don't know what a Kolkhoz worker is. The loss of your Great-Grandfather only goes to prove the Russian people didn't fare much better than Poles under Communism. Nope. it doesn't make every single member of the NKVD evil. I even know of one incident where an SS man in a death camp was tried by a Nazi court for failing to obey orders, because he knew evil when he saw it.

As for the rest of the NKVD: When they weren't massacring other people, of course, weren't those the people  who were always immediately behind an attack ready to kill any Russian Soldier that wavered? The same soldier who was sent into an attack without even a rifle?

I'm going away for a week now, so  you should get a bit of peace. But I'll leave you with this. When my father was released from Siberia, after the Nazis attacked, he was in danger of dying of starvation anyway, he was in such a bad way. Ordinary Russian people, who didn't claim to be any particular political party shared what little they had and managed to keep him and thousands of other Poles alive. Maybe that was true Communism at work, but it never had much of a chance once Stalin, Beria and all of their little helpers got control. Russia dumped it as a state organisim. Why did they do that, if what they had was so wonderful?

[Scorpio 0]

lol, this topic has been moved to the centre of hell

[Vepr 0]

hey Scorpio, I like you'r TOW banner so Im using it too

Do you have all pics you need? I've got over.. 263 and lot's of cocpit too..

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Now this is were we shoot the person who asked why the afterburners were red, lol. Heres something to do, go read the works of Marx and Lenin. Does it at any point say anything about the extermination of a species of people? Go and read Hitlers Mein Keimpf (my suffering or troubles or something). Does it talk about the extermination of a race? By now I think we are starting to see something here. When you become a nazi, you knwo that you stand for killing. When you become a communist, you believe you are there to help oppresed people. Im 13 and a socialist. (crazy world). I must admit that I have not seen a single communist or socialist that has been a total success. If stalin had started wearing an arm band with a swastike on it, changed the name of the NKVD to the Gestapo and renamed the Red army the Wehrmacht, I doubt there would have been very much defrence. He might as well have thrown away the works of Marx and started buying books done by Hitler for all the good it would have done. If someone somewhere somehow managed to get a succesful socialist state working, I believe it would be the state around. But the odds of that at the momnet are as about the same as George Bush joining Al Queda. Until someone works out how to delete greed, lust and all those other nasties that provent a good govermnt from forming, we probably have to stick with the unfair back stabbing money hungry capatilist way of life. Better that than have some in a black uniform round you up for some petty reason. Back to the plane, I hope it is out soon. I know that it is not realistic the MiG-29 flying at the same speed as the F-16, but then, any faster and it would be too fast. Bring it on. Now bring on your aguments against my topics! Why am I spouting crap?

[Vepr 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Im 13 and a socialist<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go and read Hitlers Mein Keimpf <span id='postcolor'>

Dude, grow up

Keep the topic to how great Scorpios Mig-29 model is

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ July 12 2002,17:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why am I spouting crap?<span id='postcolor'>

It's the world we live in. Actually, I agree with just about everything you say, except for the bit about the guy who asked the question in the first place; Shootin's too good for the likes of him!

I never read Marx or Lenin, or Mein Kampf. Just related to someone who had first-hand experience of what seems to be a fairly consistent result of what is after all, just theory.

Think about it; If human nature was such that pure socialism was a practical system, we wouldn't actually need it.

Now I really am gone!

[desantnik 0]

I am not necessarily proud of the soviet govt just my Motherland, it would have made no difference if it was under the Czars or under Stalin. Its just the tradition and the fact that my family activily contributed to the defence of our land. Wardog I agree with you on what you say and I am sorry about your family trials in Siberia because I know what thats like. The government I could have cared less about but the people are what really matter to me. My grandfather went into battle with the words Za Rodinu on his lips not Za Stalina. Yes I admit that the Soviets have committed atrocities and I am not covering those up but it looks like the Slavic People as a whole suffered most during the last century and I just proud that we survived. No communism is just a theory so it wouldnt really work as in the the end the whole country was supposed to be an anarchy system without the government( read that in a book about Lenin) not a dictatorship., in my opinion the Soviet Union was just an experiment that became stagnant and failed when the poeple who started it appointed themselves leaders.

hopefully Russia will rise with democracy and not under communism.