6.5 mm and recoil management in game

[ak1287 1]

The problem is not (just) the recoil, is that the weapon don't "fall" back in place after firing.

I think that hit the nail square on the head.

The problem and it's solution seem pretty clear to me. I don't necessarily think the recoil is horrible, although it could be toned down a bit. But there should be a reset after each shot. This would prevent people from just going full auto, balls-to-the-wall, since that would mean your position never reset.

The sequence, ideally, would be:

-Single shot;

-weapon resets to an approximation of your aiming area.

The 'difficult' part would be finding a length of time that is balanced for the reset. It makes no sense for it to be absurdly long, but it's also ridiculous to have it be something like .000005 of a second.

[Smurf 12]

The "kick" of the SVT is really big but help to visualize the idea:

@55s:

[Wolfstriked 11]

IIRC it fall back into place in past and they removed that to make it like it is now.

[chortles 263]

Here's my feedback on the recoil mod for anyone who's only reading this thread and not the mod's own thread:

Gave it a shot (pun intended) in Editor testing with the BLUFOR Rifleman with default loadout firing from atop the second floor open-air deck of the Military Cargo HQ just east of Stratis Air Base towards a target (thanks Bad Benson!) set up within Stratis Air Base approximately 240 meters away, since the RCO is zeroed to 300 meters...

TL;DR: With the recoil mod it feels less like I have to "actively" fight muzzle climb; when standing I didn't see all that much difference at extremely close quarters (such as "room clearing" the Military Cargo HQ's first floor) but at longer range (such as the aforementioned 240 meters) it seems like I'm better able to maintain a general sight picture when "scoped in" instead of having to essentially "sight back in" after each shot as if it were a stereotypical bolt action rifle in a stereotypical conventional FPS.

Scope sway seems unaffected and heavy when standing though, so aimed, compensated and timed single shots (preferably with breath held) are still the order of the day even at only a quarter-klick out.

[kernriver 4]

Mod is online to this address : http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?154338-The-Recoil-Fix-Mod-Alpha&p=2386981#post2386981

:)

Downloaded! Thanks Niko. :)

I'll try it later today when I get home from work and leave feedback in the mod thread.

I see people are pretty pleased with it so far.

[Inimical_rize 1]

Recoil managment can be helped by the user of the weapon, I know that when i joined the army, firing 5.56 after a small .22 was a huge shock to me, then through my career i went to 7.62 ssW and could manage he 5.56 increadibly well, at 100mtrs i could fire a setady rate into a dinner plate peice of paper with a 20-27round hit ratio. the. after 7.62ssW to the .338 l115a3 and the Spec Force X series i ckould compensate 7.62 better. Stance has a huge impact and should be adjusted accordingly in game.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Maybe they could increase sway to allow them to lower the recoil amount and still get the effect or spraying bullets.

[chortles 263]

This is officially starting to remind me of BF3 balance arguments. :lol:

Gotta say though, sway from what stance and with what conditions? As you hopefully recall from my Recoil Mod discussions and feedback, standing sway was very heavy with a RCO atop a basic MX.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Actually I think that setting full auto fire dispersion much higher and then lowering the recoil felt to what is in the recoil mod gives great effect.You wanna be more accurate then switch to single fire mode.If I recall correctly this has been debated and people felt that its better to have full auto and single fire at same dispersion so I guess the mindset is set.

[rasdenfasden 12]

Actually I think that setting full auto fire dispersion much higher and then lowering the recoil felt to what is in the recoil mod gives great effect.You wanna be more accurate then switch to single fire mode.If I recall correctly this has been debated and people felt that its better to have full auto and single fire at same dispersion so I guess the mindset is set.

Unless there are serious mechanical differences (like going from closed bolt to open bolt) when using full auto, there is no good reason to change the dispersion depending on fire mode. A single shot or short burst in full auto should be just as accurate. Anything else would be absurd.

Ideally recoil should become less predictable (like, going from "muzzle rise" to "muzzle pushes you in random directions") when firing extended bursts. Currently you can spray your entire mag out with surprisingly good accuracy. Then again, that might actually be rather realistic, considering Inimcal_'s post. Perhaps the smartest thing to do would be to make stance related sway and recoil more profound, coupled with weapon resting (a long overdue feature that has been in mods for ages).

Edited May 8, 2013 by RasdenFasden

[Wolfstriked 11]

But it just plain feels better.Test a R3F Famas rifle on full auto and with the newest recoil mod enabled(when it was at 0.45 feels better IMO).Need accurate fire then switch to single fire.Its not realistic but as it stands I doubt BI will change anything in this area.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

The recoil is way overdone, yes. I was just firing an M4 over the weekend and there was almost no vertical recoil. Shoulder absorbed almost everything. Granted this is a different round standard in game, but it is not that far from 5.56 mm.

[bigpickle 0]

Yes, I play Arma games since 2001 so I have an accurate idea how to manage rifle in game... that's because I know better that I want better.

totally agree, current recoil is system is so fictional H.G Wells himself would be proud!

When firing a weapon in RL the recoil forces the weapon back into your shoulder and effects the sight picture with a short sharp vibration and kick which instantly return to original aim point.

[maturin 12]

No, it doesn't return the barrel to the original aimpoint. If so, we would all be firing .50 BMG because recoil wouldn't matter. There will be human error in where the barrel returns to, which is why a perfect recoil system would have the barrel drop back down to a randomized point slightly differing from the original point of aim, although statistically trending up and towards the right to penalize sprayers.

[bigpickle 0]

don't slip hairs maturin, you know what i meant, when i say original aim point i don't mean dead on, but if your holding your weapon right its enough to avoid what we see in game currently.

[maturin 12]

don't slip hairs maturin, you know what i meant, when i say original aim point i don't mean dead on, but if your holding your weapon right its enough to avoid what we see in game currently.

Well no, I didn't know you meant that. Because original ArmA 2 recoil, which everyone is missing so badly, did return your barrel perfectly.

[Smurf 12]

Ok that work for single fire, but what about full auto?

[Second 0]

Rifle doesn't come down from recoil, that is my main problem with it. Even in prone position when i shoot rifle it doesn't come down. Movement of gun is slowish in recoil, but i dont' exprience that as big problem, i hate it if i have to fight the game in this matter when i'm supposed to fight against opponent.

I've double tapped targets upto 250 meters, with LMG i've shot double-bursts (2x2 shots) upto 400 meters. And i've shot fast flying birds down in dublees from standing position with shotgun, which requires quite fast ability to shoot fast successive shots at different targets with gun which's recoil is similar to 7.62x54 bolt lock. Recoil has never been this kind of problem as it is in ArmA3.

Infact i've never had any sort of recoil management teached to me and if i'm not using automatic fire with lightish rifle i don't think it's necessary. When i trained mostly with BB-gun i told to one experienced shooter that it doesn't teach me to manage recoil he said that "What goes up comes down", and he was right in my opinion.

[Nikoteen 24]

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZX7Ycol-yE

Looking ahead, what will your team work on towards release of the Arma 3?

We really need to focus on the basis of Arma 3’s gameplay, which is infantry. I would like us to refine the controls and fluidity of the game play further. We also still need to revise the equipment, which can be improved in some aspects and needs more balancing. Also, we will be looking at the grenades and handling of weapons: there is a big recoil enhancement going on, and some more cool stuff about which we can hopefully tell more in the near future.

Good news ! the dev are working on that important issue (after all, firing the rifle is the main activity in an Arma game :p)

[freemangl 1]

http://www.arma3.com/news/report-in-lukas-haladik-sandox-design#.UZX7Ycol-yE

Good news ! the dev are working on that important issue (after all, firing the rifle is the main activity in an Arma game :p)

any info shows will the beta have this big recoil enhancement?

[dragon01 902]

It should. I doubt they're to keep this from us for long.

[lev 21]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but one issue that has been bothering me is the difference in recoil when switching between ranged optics (RCO, ARCO, etc) and CQB optics (CQB version of RCO, ARCO, ACO, HOLO, etc). Recoil has a huge effect on short range optics but barely any noticeable effect on long range optics. Whether or not recoil is too high in general for the weapon system is one thing but it is totally wrong when the short range optics seem to have a huge effect while the long range optics suffer no problems at all on the same weapon system.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

I don't know if anyone else noticed this but one issue that has been bothering me is the difference in recoil when switching between ranged optics (RCO, ARCO, etc) and CQB optics (CQB version of RCO, ARCO, ACO, HOLO, etc). Recoil has a huge effect on short range optics but barely any noticeable effect on long range optics. Whether or not recoil is too high in general for the weapon system is one thing but it is totally wrong when the short range optics seem to have a huge effect while the long range optics suffer no problems at all on the same weapon system.

I actually find it to be the complete opposite to be honest. Recoil in scopes is near uncontrollable for me yet CQB sights are simple and very easy to control.

[profcupcake 11]

I think most of you are simultaneously right and wrong about this.

You're all very right about the way recoil works IRL, and subsequently its unnatural feeling in the game.

But I think you've missed that specific point: It's a game. As such, there should be a more difficult to control recoil system, there should be a bit of a kick off-target when you shoot. Since you can't adjust the exact position of your character, these things are required to 'separate the men from the boys', as it were. More experienced shooters would naturally be able to control their fire better than a rookie.

[Shagulon 1]

Anyone else notice that recoil is now really quite easy t manage. Even stood up with an LMG I can hit target about 150 yards away. Does anyone else thing that sway should increase with the weight of the weapon carried when is standing positions. Low crouch and prone obviously everything becomes more equal.

Recoil should also be a little more brutal with more powerful rifles in standing.

We need a point to selecting a CQB weapon like an SMG, but more weapons handle too well when standing and moving to need one.