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Low CPU utilization & Low FPS

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I think Arma3 is the "World Record" holder with complains due "ffs, fix the Engine for acceptable FPS"

I´ve never saw this much amount of "pissed" customers related to the Frameissue. And i play Videogames since the AtariVCS2600 (had every Console, uncountable Games played and so on...)

This should be rewarded with a Trophy or Medal or something like that^^

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I think Arma3 is the "World Record" holder with complains due "ffs, fix the Engine for acceptable FPS"

I´ve never saw this much amount of "pissed" customers related to the Frameissue. And i play Videogames since the AtariVCS2600 (had every Console, uncountable Games played and so on...)

This should be rewarded with a Trophy or Medal or something like that^^

Lol, so true :) Maybe Guinness will be interested :D

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And honestly i think the size of Altis does excellent frame drops too, i think if the player should have the choice how big the island should be (mean that before start a mission something like choose a section or specific sections of the map where u want to play, man that would be great) it would be less complains about dropping frames (when i compare Altis/Stratis and constant framerates, Stratis wins easy)

But the devs decided to put the giant rock into water, biggest Map in Games history is a nice trophy, we players gain ridiculous drops specially on Altis. Would like to know if the size of Altis isnt a try to compensate little things^^ things like frames^^ (Map is big, Frames are weak)

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I have an AMD FX 6300 running at the stock clocks (3.5GHZ and 4.1GHZ turbo) and an Geforce GTX 760 with 2 GB of GDDR5 ram running, once again at stock clocks. I also got 12GB of 1600MHZ ram. My PC is essentially right on the dot for so to say "average" consumer performance it is essentially an entry level gaming PC. For me, while playing the game its essentially frames = low when alot of activity is happening and frames = high when not. It doesn't matter how much I tinker my settings or anything I could be blaring the game on ultra or squinting at it on low, the frames will not change it period. You could change the GPU max frames ahead or the overall view distance and all that jazz in the settings but overall it will not make much of a difference. The reason why this is happening is simply because the game is indeed unoptimised and that's just the flat out answer no matter which way you cut it. For example, when you set your view range to 1500M is doesn't render 1500M in the direction your looking. Instead the game renders essentially in a big circley box majigger with the circumference being your view range. So look at it this way, you aren't only rendering that town your looking at, your rendering that town over the hill, the enemy squad patrolling the mountain range on the edge of your render distance The tank battle happening over the ridge, the guy firing an AT launcher on the other side of town, EVERY single building, flower, wall and enemy in the town your assaulting and oh did I mention the game actually properly renders stuff when you look at the ground (seriously look at the ground while playing and watch the frames soar and maybe if you take some mushrooms the game will be running at the same frame rate when you look back up). Go ahead tinker around with the settings, try overclocking your GPU/CPU but no matter what you do ArmA 3 will only run best walking around in the forest with small squads of enemies attacking you AKA the singleplayer which I felt was only made that way so Bohemia can go like "No the game is completely optimized just look at the singleplayer!" Overall what i'm saying is that small little controlled battles are fine right now. But as one final note, in the words of the "Battlefields" mission description which was one of the largest battles possible in Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Assault which is now ArmA: Cold War Assault "Note: This mission is reccomended for 1GHZ or faster PCs" which I guess since Bohemia is just using a more modern version of that games VR engine it translates to "Note: 5GHZ or faster PCs recommended for large scale battles" in ArmA 3. Long story short with my complete bullshit aside we aren't gonna be seeing decent frames until a 4770k is considered trash.

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Arma3 cant even hold constant Framerates with an Intel Hexacore @ 4,4Ghz + 2*R295X2 (Quad Crossfire) i´ve build such an Extreme-Rig for a customer on Monday. Did a test with Crysis 3 too, ~45FPS average there, of course in UltraHD 3840x2160,IngameOptions: SMAA High&16:1 HQAF. Who needs Crysis in solid fps on UltraHD when a human can get Arma3 in FullHD, stuttering like a cunt on crack..

You cant force the Arma3 Engine to execute better performance until the Engine will gain an massive update. In my opinion this will never happen.

Edited by LSD_Timewarp82

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http://imageshack.com/a/img743/1293/b550e3.jpg (872 kB)

My actual Rig:

Computer Type: PC/Desktop 
System Manufacturer/Model Number: Custom-Build 
OS: Windows-8.1-RTM-Pro-WMC-x64 
CPU: Intel Core i7 3770k @4700MHz 
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V 
Memory: G.Skill 16G(4*4G) DDR3-2400 Quad Channel [TDX] F3-2400C10Q-16GTX (10-11-11-28-2T)
Graphics Card: 2x Gigabyte GTX780-Ti-GHz-Edition-3GB in 2-Way-SLI 
Sound Card: OnBoard Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio 
Monitor(s) Displays: Asus VE278Q 27" Wide Led Black Full HD 2ms | Dell S2409W 24" 5ms 
Screen Resolution: 1920x1080 
Keyboard: Roccat Isku | Logitech G13 | XBox 360 Controller wired | Logitech Dual Action GamePad 
Mouse: Shogun Bros. Ballista MK-1 | Cyborg R.A.T. 7 Infection | Zalman FPSGun Mouse | Logitech G9
Mouse-Pad: Roccat Siru
PSU: Corsair AX1200i 
Case: Thermaltake Level-10 GT LCS 
Cooling: EK H3O HFX 240mm Liquid Cooling Kit + IC Diamond 7 Carat, CPU Thermal Paste-Grease-Compound 
Hard Drives: - Intel 520S 240GB/SATA3/R 550MBs,W 520MBs/25nm/3.5"Kit/5yr - Samsung 840 EVO SATA3 500GB - Seagate Barracuda SATA3 1TB 7200RPM 64mb Cache - Seagate Barracuda SATA3 1TB 7200RPM 64mb Cache - Seagate Constellation SATA3 3TB 7200RPM 64mb Cache - Seagate FreeAgent USB 2.0 1TB - Seagate FreeAgent USB 2.0 2TB - Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex USB 3.0 2TB
Internet Speed: ADSL2+ ~15MBit/s DL | ~1MBit/s UL 
Browser: Google Chrome 
Antivirus: Windows Defender 
Other Info: - Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick - Plantronics GameCom Commander 7.1 Headset - Logitech X-210 Speakers

I did a tiny upgrade:

- 2x Gigabyte GTX680-SOC-2gb ==> 2x Gigabyte GTX780-Ti-GHz-Edition-3GB

- Antec HCG-900 ==> Corsair AX1200i

- additional SSD dedicated to run my main games ==> Samsung 840 EVO SATA3 500GB

Unigine Heaven 4.0:

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/2662/fd46dd.jpg (313 kB)

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/6272/d4d3bc.jpg (342 kB)

3D-Mark-Score:

Click

3D-Mark-11-Score:

Click

PC-Mark-8-Score (Accelerated / OpenCL):

Click

Star-Swarm-Scores (Extreme):

- Follow:

== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			28124

Average FPS:			78.11
Average Unit Count:		4727
Maximum Unit Count:		5794
Average Batches/MS:		1403.79
Maximum Batches/MS:		5365.89
Average Batch Count:		18597
Maximum Batch Count:		112724
===========================================================

- Attract:

== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			17817

Average FPS:			49.49
Average Unit Count:		4419
Maximum Unit Count:		5484
Average Batches/MS:		1535.84
Maximum Batches/MS:		5064.43
Average Batch Count:		31969
Maximum Batch Count:		186205
===========================================================

- RTS:

== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			9584

Average FPS:			26.62
Average Unit Count:		4171
Maximum Unit Count:		5389
Average Batches/MS:		2438.91
Maximum Batches/MS:		6210.71
Average Batch Count:		87260
Maximum Batch Count:		172706
===========================================================

- Shmup:

== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			24079

Average FPS:			66.88
Average Unit Count:		4240
Maximum Unit Count:		5265
Average Batches/MS:		1421.90
Maximum Batches/MS:		5231.63
Average Batch Count:		20201
Maximum Batch Count:		109801
===========================================================

Arma-3 (Dev.-Build v1.25.126046)

Low / Disabled:

- Stratis = 154fps

- Altis = 126fps

Low:

- Stratis = 140fps

- Altis = 119fps

Standard:

- Stratis = 100fps

- Altis = 90fps

High:

- Stratis = 75fps

- Altis = 69fps

Very-High:

- Stratis = 56fps

- Altis = 52fps

Ultra:

- Stratis = 41fps

- Altis = 43fps

Maxed-out:

- Stratis = 33fps

- Altis = 17fps

:)

Edited by TONSCHUH

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I honestly feel like this thread can be closed after page 332-336. That's all the evidence you need for why Arma's performance is as it is, and possibly what you can do to improve it. Everything after that is just people complaining.

Perhaps I will make a thread regarding performance, the reasons behind it and what you can do to improve it and then request it to be stickied or something.

Edited by ruhtraeel

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....for why Arma's performance is as it is, and possibly what you can do to improve it. Everything after that is just people complaining.

Good luck with that. i think you will fail hard.

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I honestly feel like this thread can be closed after page 332-336. That's all the evidence you need for why Arma's performance is as it is, and possibly what you can do to improve it. Everything after that is just people complaining.

Perhaps I will make a thread regarding performance, the reasons behind it and what you can do to improve it and then request it to be stickied or something.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?164958-ArmA-3-Performance-Tweaks-and-Settings-Guide

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Good luck with that. i think you will fail hard.

...This statement doesn't make logical sense. I said that those pages can be referred to for why ARMA's performance is as it is. You're essentially saying that I will fail hard at something that has already been done. Besides, I'm confident that my background will at least help in these related topics.

I would like to know your opinion as to why I will "fail hard" at something, however.

I did see that guide, and I've actually followed it to help boost my framerates. However, I think that the guide is missing information on why the framerate is as it is. The guide is end-result heavy in that it says "because we've tried it a lot, this change seems to affect this performance". It never really explains why something happens, just when it happens. Reasons behind certain correlations include numerous pointers to memory, the CPU cycle waiting for memory references to finish, and page tables being scattered across random locations in RAM.

If we can show users the direct reasons and causations of framerates, rather than just what settings to change, we can hope that people will take this research even further and discover things that haven't already been found.

Edited by ruhtraeel

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It was no offense against u. I was just trying to say that in my eyes nothing does really help to increase fps in Arma until the devs wont start to fix that prehistoric engine. In my opinion those "Increase Performance in Arma 3"- Tutorials are Placebos, at least minimum 90-95% of them. And an increasement is starting in my eyes at 10fps but INSTANTLY and not losing it in a few seconds like usual in Arma.

And most users checks the Tutorials and reacting like: Wow OMFG "i have 15FPS boost through this tutorial"... After i have asked a few Users how they record that Frames or how they know that they have those boost a gigantic mass anwered: "there is a counter in the Options" so mostly no one records a benchmark or something, they only say they saw it in Options and it works... Ridicolous!

I have some knowledge in PC´s and the whole Overclocking stuff, and i tried a lot of things not to say i try all what is possible to gain FPS. In this case you´re right: i failed hard

Remember: only recorded graphs are useful to discover if there is a gain of FPS in a Game. Other methods like "i trust my eyes and the framecounter in the options" are incredibly useless.

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I still just have to resort to dropping the View Distance really low, and even then I have dropped sub-20 FPS in an MP mission before. Pretty sad. I haven't actually seen any significant performance boosts since the game came out of Beta.

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ArmA 3 is multi-threaded but in an extremely light way. May I direct you towards the following data recorded from Windows Performance recorder and Windows performance analyser and GPU-view. ArmA 3 is literally waiting for hundreds of threads to catch up no wonder we have crap performance...

vipsc4p.png

dI4T5Fl.png

Thread timeline data:

12ciewJ.png

10 threads doing nearly nothing? Anyone say why? I believe it is exactly what the developers said ArmA 3 is predominantly dependent on single-threads and puts the game on the fastest core. But? Couldn't bohemia enhance game-performance by using SSE 4.x and AVX extensions? Most CPU's come with SSE 4.x and CMT16 / AMD equivlents.

And the GPU is doing nothing almost.... with arma 3...

Mv2pol3.png

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh162945.aspx

Data Dump Requested by Dwarden.

GPU-AND-CPU-TRACE-DATA.7z

Edited by Polymath820

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10 threads doing nearly nothing? Anyone say why?

Looks like your CPU is choking on that amount of threads, old CPU maybe?

Running an i7 4770k at 4.5ghz with 100 ai units all doing waypoints/fighting each other my fps barely drops below 40.

As seen in the screenshot below, 27 fps with more than 350 AI (the upsmon hint doesn't count units spawned mid-mission):

http://i.imgur.com/QJ9BoPY.jpg (376 kB)

Running 350 + AI a bit below 30 fps is anything but crap performance. (and I wouldn't call my rig high end either)

If the game is waiting for your CPU to finish calculations so the other threads can process that data it's no wonder you're getting these results.

This also results in low GPU usage.

What CPU do you have?

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Looks like your CPU is choking on that amount of threads, old CPU maybe?

Running an i7 4770k at 4.5ghz with 100 ai units all doing waypoints/fighting each other my fps barely drops below 40.

As seen in the screenshot below, 27 fps with more than 350 AI (the upsmon hint doesn't count units spawned mid-mission):

http://i.imgur.com/QJ9BoPY.jpg (376 kB)

Running 350 + AI a bit below 30 fps is anything but crap performance. (and I wouldn't call my rig high end either)

If the game is waiting for your CPU to finish calculations so the other threads can process that data it's no wonder you're getting these results.

This also results in low GPU usage.

What CPU do you have?

That was in-game idle no AI. Can you actually profile your system before making a statement? People are conditioned that throwing more CPU or GPU at something it is going to perform better. The thread-catchup is also on GPU time. There is too much data to post.

A fair few of the DMA calls are taking a long time, unnecessarily long time.

Edited by Polymath820

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Want to know intricate details of what ArmA 3 is doing?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=39982

Download it and only install the performance and evaluation kit.

Start ArmA 3 join a server

Run Windows Performance Recorder,run it as admin and compatibility windows 8 set it to "Memory"

and Verbose.

Select GPU and CPU trace

Record 160seconds or more if you like

Run GPU-View as Adminstrator and In compatibility mode windows 8 or which OS

Run Windows Performance Analyser Find where you saved the data-recording

Open The recording saved in GPU-view and Open it in Windows Performance Analyser.

That will give you enoromous amounts of information about how arma 3 works. It seems to me arma 3 maps too many memory mappings. No joke... and 10 threads are opened over a 160 second GPU trace used < 1% of the time. My question is due to ArmA 3 mapping enormous amounts of unnecessary memory could be reduced?

P.S if you want to know what a server is doing you can remotely run this program as well. In the event you want to analyse what ArmA 3 is doing server-side and where performance bottlenecks exist.

The amount of data you get is not limited how often a thread is put in a wait state, how long a GPU execution takes CPU, and HW-queuing. and as far as I know you can listen in frame-draw-calls and how long they take to execute. Direct3D 11 texture mapping SO MUCH DATA>

Heres an idea of the type of things going on with arma 3

Standard queue packet

Submission Sequence: 66618

SubmissionTime: 557203572 (55,720.3572ms)

CompletionTime: 557724652 (55,772.4652ms)

Time in SW queue: 52 milliseconds

Dma size (bytes): 76

Number of allocations referenced: 91

Number of patch locations: 91

---------- Associated Dma Packet(s) follows -----------

DmaPacketList size=1

Creation Time: 557662569 (55,766.2569ms)

Process (5532) arma3.exe

Context: 0xFFFFC00104EA5210

Standard Dma Packet

Submission fence: 5927772

SubmittedToHardwareQueueTime: 557662960 (55,766.2960ms)

GpuStartProcessingTime: 557701996 (55,770.1996ms)

CompletedByISRTime: 557724390 (55,772.4390ms)

CompletedByDPCTime: 557724622 (55,772.4622ms)

Time in HW queue: 61430 (6.1430ms)

Execution time: 22394 (2.2394ms)

Packet Status: Completed

Queue Packet: Dma Size (bytes): 76

Queue Packet: Number of allocations referenced: 91

Queue Packet: Number of patch locations: 91

Allocation References:

0x0000000000000000

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0xFFFFE0004BF6B420 0xFFFFC000FC31E6B0 P0 Mem 0x0000000000060000 (384KB)

0xFFFFE0004F8DA490 0xFFFFC000FBFCDD00 P0 Mem 0x0000000000016000 (88KB)

0xFFFFE0004D4EE770 0xFFFFC00105470E00 P0 Mem 0x0000000000016000 (88KB)

Total App References: 0x0000000001705000 (23MB)

Total Mem References: 0x00000000083E7000 (131MB)

Edited by Polymath820

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You're actually wondering why 10 threads are idling while the game engine is running idle with no AI? Really?

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You're actually wondering why 10 threads are idling while the game engine is running idle with no AI? Really?

Lol yes that's strange.

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Lol yes that's strange.

Oh well, I should have read the other topics made by him first, things would have been more clear then ;)

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Looks like your CPU is choking on that amount of threads, old CPU maybe?

Running an i7 4770k at 4.5ghz with 100 ai units all doing waypoints/fighting each other my fps barely drops below 40.

As seen in the screenshot below, 27 fps with more than 350 AI (the upsmon hint doesn't count units spawned mid-mission):

http://i.imgur.com/QJ9BoPY.jpg (376 kB)

Running 350 + AI a bit below 30 fps is anything but crap performance. (and I wouldn't call my rig high end either)

If the game is waiting for your CPU to finish calculations so the other threads can process that data it's no wonder you're getting these results.

This also results in low GPU usage.

What CPU do you have?

Not high-end? Steam hardware survey begs to differ.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/

0.36% of all Intel CPUs are above 3.7 Ghz. Thats you and 5 guys or something.

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My question is due to ArmA 3 mapping enormous amounts of unnecessary memory could be reduced?

If you really want to know how to optimize software, take a look at my post's link at the bottom of page 332, as well as my post on page 335. In those pages, I explain how memory is mapped from virtual to physical using page tables, and why it slows down performance.

Edited by ruhtraeel

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Not high-end? Steam hardware survey begs to differ.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/processormfg/

0.36% of all Intel CPUs are above 3.7 Ghz. Thats you and 5 guys or something.

please stop using steam hardware survey...

oh, i should be 2 of the other 5 guys then, since i have 2 pcs running same steam account, both clocked @ 4ghz. I wonder who the other 3 are :rolleyes:

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