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TOH flight model- if, when, how?

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Dan;2345371']But I wonder if they go and do it for the helis' date=' how many people will play it on expert mode? Pretty much everytime I played TOH online it was on the easiest model, whereas I always fly on expert in SP/with clanmates.

Go buys TOH for realism, puts it on lowest realism.....honestly why?[/quote']

they just want to fly around and dont have the "expert gear" to play it. it really isnt cool to use so much keybindings for such a simulator

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they just want to fly around and dont have the "expert gear" to play it. it really isnt cool to use so much keybindings for such a simulator

Yeah, I agree, not everyone is a "fully paid up" flight sim enthusiast with hundred of pounds of hardware... some of us just have a controller, and whilst you can do surprisingly well with just that, there are limits.

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Though, I have to ask, if its not mandatory woudn't you have to be an idiot to use it? I mean assuming you want to "win" you're going to use the easiest FM regardless of which you enjoy more from a sim perspective, after all Arma is not a flight sim, its a milsim which is often played competitively and a helicopter is just a tool to that end. So logically I would say make it mandatory, as otherwise very few will chose to handicap themselves by using it and it will have been a waste of dev time.

excuse me, did you ever played within community? i bet no. assuming that people will go for easiest settings to get the cutting edge is not about nature of arma. we play arma because we want more realistic experience. if we would want to play some arcade we would go to bf/cod series, would not we?

and thanks for calling me an idiot, thats really make a point.

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Yeah, I agree, not everyone is a "fully paid up" flight sim enthusiast with hundred of pounds of hardware... some of us just have a controller, and whilst you can do surprisingly well with just that, there are limits.

I actually play toh with my ps2 controller and all the important things mapped onto it, with the sensitivity and deadzone changed, and it handles as well as a proper joystick almost (I can certain keep up with my clanmate in a dogfight and he has a proper joystick and peddles). So its not just a case of gear, but how well you map your controls and how much practice you get in (a load in my case).

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Anyway I actually understand Dslyecxi point. If we ever get TOH FM it should be opinional and server side dependent.

I can also see what will happen when a public server use TOH FM(meaning kids ignoring warning and makes a lots of unwanted explosions).

They do that already, no matter what FM is used! One way to help that is by mission design only equip piots with a pistol and then only let pilots fly the helicopters, that way John Rambo will not just grab a heli and fly away alone to park it in the middle of the firefight.

Even if don't agree with Dslyecxi's POV that implementing TOH FM into A3 would weakening the multiplayer experience (IMO to the contrary since there would be more dedicated pilots flying) it's pretty low for anyone to to say someone is "full of s****" and I agree with 4 IN 1 that you may have some growing up to do and stating that rudders/joystick/etc is useless in ArmA just shows your ignorance.

They are not a must to have but if you are into flightsims and already own the equipment I can guarantee you that it makes flying helicopters a lot more fun also in ArmA!

Just to clarify, I do agree that TOH FM should be optional.

/KC

Edited by KeyCat

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One of the difficulties is not knowing if your controller is setup badly and therefore you're wasting your time trying to learn to fly with a crippled setup. Obviously it's not possible to know the ideal settings for every controller but I guess it would be good if we could compile a database of settings for as many as possible, which would at least be a good starting point for everyone, even if they feel the need to tweak a bit from there.

Or maybe I'm just making excuses for still not being able to get the hang of flying/landing/shooting stuff despite practicing in both A2 and DCS BS2 ;) Forget about BF2, those helos are crazy! Maybe I should dig out Enemy Engaged, I think I used to be OK at that :)

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At the moment A2 has a better flight model than Arma 3, I find Arma 3's currently is close to BF3 than Arma 2. I personally find being able to barrel roll and backflip several times at really low altitudes concerning. Since OFP I have always seen the this community as one that begs for more realism. I'm aware Arma is focused on infantry combat, but this doesn't mean we should nerf flight because people find it difficult to learn and adapt.

I for one would love to have TOH flight model, or something close to it - I enjoy being able to auto rotate my chopper to the ground and save my passengers.

Hopefully they use a difficulty setting similar to TOH's where certain flight features can be turned off, for those of course who don't want the close to authentic experience :)

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The problem about the paddle on the market is that most of them are not really build for helo flying, the better suit ones cause some $1000 per set, and building one yourself needs time and skills. Not something normal gamer will do.

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They do that already, no matter what FM is used! One way to help that is by mission design only equip piots with a pistol and then only let pilots fly the helicopters, that way John Rambo will not just grab a heli and fly away alone to park it in the middle of the firefight.

Even if don't agree with Dslyecxi's POV that implementing TOH FM into A3 would weakening the multiplayer experience (IMO to the contrary since there would be more dedicated pilots flying) it's pretty low for anyone to to say someone is "full of s****" and I agree with 4 IN 1 that you may have some growing up to do and stating that rudders/joystick/etc is useless in ArmA just shows your ignorance.

They are not a must to have but if you are into flightsims and already own the equipment I can guarantee you that it makes flying helicopters a lot more fun also in ArmA!

Just to clarify, I do agree that TOH FM should be optional.

/KC

i own whole set. joystick, throttle, pedals, track ir and i'm just being honest that all of these are mostly useless in arma unless you have a peoper flight model

The problem about the paddle on the market is that most of them are not really build for helo flying, the better suit ones cause some $1000 per set, and building one yourself needs time and skills. Not something normal gamer will do.

you don't need to buy any special equipment to fly in toh. equipment like that makes it more authentic. nothing more. if you can't fly for shit you would not flight or shit no matter if you got a set of devices for bunch usd or not.

it will be also helpful if people who leave a comment about how they think TOH fm handling actually try it first instead of discussing their assumptions on game they never played.

for now it looks more like a chatter women restroom: "-ah gosh i heard Jennys's friend's stepsister that live in australia met a guy who was so hot! "

if you have no idea how toh handes - find out before discussing it. thanks.

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The idea that things should remain simple and easy simply because people cannot comprehend how things function is flat out BS for something such as this. People are going to crash no matter what you do, you could make the helo as "along the lines" simple as battlefield 3 and yet people will still be able to screw it up, to hold back because of them alone only serves to screw over the games potential to stand out in an industry with watered mechanics as far as military games go.

I just got out of a flight session in TKOH, switching between trainee, veteran and expert and while I wouldn't that A3 should use expert, Trainee should definately be in there. Simply put, helicopters are the most advanced vehicle in terms of how it can move, the only format that can move in all directions at any moment..that is a great deal of power at your finger tips and by comparison A3 feels token. The feeling of control there is hollow, the aircraft doesn't fight you, it doesn't try to kill you on its own and you don't see the gentle to violent vibrations in the cockpit.

The fact that collective influenced yaw, how wind could push you off course and thus required constant yaw. How the cockpit gently vibrated..these things made the aircraft feel much more real and offer a sense of accomplishment when you learned to control, especially when you learn how to land with the wind against you.

I don't think the FM will be the same without the damage model however...the fact that you could stress the frame, overtorque, blade flap and push your engines to the point that they die (such as in a loop).

See what Franze & Co did with their AH64 mod thus far. It just screams "I only lack TOH FM to be fully awesome".

You're too kind.

Edited by NodUnit

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The idea that things should remain simple and easy simply because people cannot comprehend how things function is flat out BS for something such as this. People are going to crash no matter what you do, you could make the helo as "along the lines" simple as battlefield 3 and yet people will still be able to screw it up, to hold back because of them alone only serves to screw over the games potential to stand out in an industry with watered mechanics as far as military games go.

can't say it better

Does the game need TKOH's expert difficulty? Nah, you'd see so many people spinning maddly as they lift, the tail pitch down and immediately slam into the ground. However trainee at least would be nice, the influence of wind to gently push or blow you off course, the requirement of constand yaw to keep the helo straight. The way collective effects yaw but also the hazard system TKOH brought on. You wouldn't dare do the loops shown in that video outside of the easiest difficulty and even then not so much. The light had some weight to it, by the time you were upside down the helo was plummeting and even after you level out you're still falling from inertia.

well, some people may not need it, some may do need. afterall arma is all about choices, keeping it optional will be really sweet, so peoplee who would like to become better pilots will have a fm to strive for.

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well, some people may not need it, some may do need. afterall arma is all about choices, keeping it optional will be really sweet, so peoplee who would like to become better pilots will have a fm to strive for.

Fair enough, as much of a nightmare as it would be to try and do..things such as interacting with the cockpit while using TKOH's veteran/expert FM would be...I'd be lieing if it didn't sound sound like a suicidally fun challenge.

I certainly wouldn't blame someone for wanting a more simple mode, the highest of difficulties is a nightmare on its own, though I would like to see something less "static" than A2's flight model, where the heli just floats in the air perfectly still with hands off.

You know...now that I think about it, that would add another level of gameplay for importance of the co pilot. The pilot of an attack helicopter wouldn't be so powered because they would be trying to maintain control whilst using and aiming the weapons, making the need for a CPG greater than just someone to aim the gun.

And A3's ability to allow the crew to hand the controls to one another would allow instructors to fly with trainee's, allow them to give tips and clarity before handing the controls off, then taking them back IF need be.

Edited by NodUnit

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wait a second?... you can give controls to copilits now?... awesome!

i will jump to roof if overall flight dynamics of TOH FM will present, even without startup and shutdown procedures and stress damage... this is combined arms sim anyway, so i'm okay if we would not see these two. but being able to set proper flight model in difficulty settings is the most anticipated feature of arma 3.

Edited by n7snk

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my priority is the following: in the worsed case I will try to port stratis & co into take on heli rearmed as an addon :-P

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I dont see a problem with difficult helicopters ingame. It's always been people who say "nah, I only crash it, you fly" and thats it. If you want to fly, then learn.

I do see the point in having an easier mode in addition to TOH FM as some do not want to spend too much time practicing, but to make the helicopter nerfed so anyone, without any practice, can fly is a bad decision imho.

I would love to get TOH expert into A3.

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nevermind

---------- Post added at 04:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

The idea that things should remain simple and easy simply because people cannot comprehend how things function is flat out BS for something such as this. People are going to crash no matter what you do, you could make the helo as "along the lines" simple as battlefield 3 and yet people will still be able to screw it up, to hold back because of them alone only serves to screw over the games potential to stand out in an industry with watered mechanics as far as military games go.
I dont see a problem with difficult helicopters ingame. It's always been people who say "nah, I only crash it, you fly" and thats it.

If you want to fly, then learn.

I do see the point in having an easier mode in addition to TOH FM as some do not want to spend too much time practicing, but to make the helicopter nerfed so anyone, without any practice, can fly is a bad decision imho.

I would love to get TOH expert into A3.

i guess this will sum it up.

Edited by n7snk

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wait a second?... you can give controls to copilits now?... awesome!

Yep, you can also hop in the co pilot side and take control there to if you like. In Take On of course.

i will jump to roof if overall flight dynamics of TOH FM will present, even without startup and shutdown procedures and stress damage... this is combined arms sim anyway, so i'm okay if we would not see these two. but being able to set proper flight model in difficulty settings is the most anticipated feature of arma 3.

There are already quick start up and shut down selections in place in ToH also.

You can also see the rotors having collective applied already in A3 automatically once they spin up a bit during start up. The premise is there and we just need the FM ported over and all the problems sorted out that will no doubt occur when it gets mixed with physX.

Going to be a lot of aircrew rescue missions in MP when ToH flight model is incorperated into A3, the non scripted kind. ;)

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Controls "handover" is already in alpha, last night I had "take controls" in my action menu once as a co-pilot.

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One thing to consider:

If they implement the ToH FM, they really should implement the Auto Trim option as well. Triming the damn thing with M+K is completely impossible.

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in most of helicopters you have two trims that fix main rotor in same angle and another is for tail rotor. so basicly 2 autotrims, in real helicoters, so it's realistic

so i see no reason why we should not have one autotrim button ;)

Edited by n7snk

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I personally would rather have stress damage and the rest of it as well. Anything that stops the helicopters from being the ridiculously minmaxed units the better. I'm not saying they need to be balanced, but there are certainly limitations with helicopters as weapons platforms that are not expressed in ArmA.

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excuse me, did you ever played within community? i bet no. assuming that people will go for easiest settings to get the cutting edge is not about nature of arma. we play arma because we want more realistic experience. if we would want to play some arcade we would go to bf/cod series, would not we?

and thanks for calling me an idiot, thats really make a point.

I didn't call you an idiot, I don't even know who you are, I was making a generalisation. Yes I have played a certain amount of ACE and some of that time on a reasonably serious private server, but very little of my ACE time has been PVP because the public servers are stuffed with cheaters/hackers... and if someone is willing to hack to get an edge then they wont think twice about using an easier flight model to get an edge. wake up.

Dan;2345646']I actually play toh with my ps2 controller and all the important things mapped onto it' date=' with the sensitivity and deadzone changed, and it handles as well as a proper joystick almost (I can certain keep up with my clanmate in a dogfight and he has a proper joystick and peddles). So its not just a case of gear, but how well you map your controls and how much practice you get in (a load in my case).[/quote']

Yep, I do pretty well in ToH with a 360 pad, had to modify the deadzones like you say but otherwise its perfectly viable.

Edited by Deepfried

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in most of helicopters you have two trims that fix main rotor in same angle and another is for tail rotor. so basicly 2 autotrims, in real helicoters, so it's realistic

so i see no reason why we should not have one autotrim button ;)

I happens to remember that trim is manual unless it is some very expensive and newer models with advance avionics i.e Super Puma and such, which do have auto hover function.

you don't need to buy any special equipment to fly in toh. equipment like that makes it more authentic. nothing more. if you can't fly for shit you would not flight or shit no matter if you got a set of devices for bunch usd or not.

it will be also helpful if people who leave a comment about how they think TOH fm handling actually try it first instead of discussing their assumptions on game they never played.

for now it looks more like a chatter women restroom: "-ah gosh i heard Jennys's friend's stepsister that live in australia met a guy who was so hot! "

if you have no idea how toh handes - find out before discussing it. thanks.

Did I said I can't fly in TOH? Never, did I? I just point out that those padels are better for fixed wings. What I did however is modify my padels with a piece of wood, some sticks, screws and hinges to make it more helicopter like.

As for the rest of the comments, well, grow up.FPDR

Edited by 4 IN 1

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I personally would rather have stress damage and the rest of it as well. Anything that stops the helicopters from being the ridiculously minmaxed units the better. I'm not saying they need to be balanced, but there are certainly limitations with helicopters as weapons platforms that are not expressed in ArmA.

+1

Since infantry combat is already quite a challenge (it's authentic), other means of combat (air, armor...) should follow the same route.

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in most of helicopters you have two trims that fix main rotor in same angle and another is for tail rotor. so basicly 2 autotrims, in real helicoters, so it's realistic

so i see no reason why we should not have one autotrim button ;)

For most modern U.S. military helos, the above isn't true. While there are micro-switches that help with the trim of the pedals, you can set the trim with one (1) force trim switch on the cyclic. Generally, this will work above a certain low airspeed (for the -60, it's ~50-60 knots, depending on model).

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