Finished Campaign and Strategy mode - now here's my (LARGE) bugs list

[atroublestarter 3]

I would like to start this thread with a quote I read on another thread in this troubleshooting forum:

"All games have bugs." Whilst technically this is NOT true, (not all games have bugs), many do. But lets ask ourselves, to what extent do all games have bugs? I mean, how many poor shortcuts in design and problems must a game have before it's deemed unnacceptable? Can a games developer take it even further by releasing a game that's barely playable and then say in their terms and conditions that you're not entitled to a refund due to faults, bugs, or not being fit for purpose? In the US, sadly I think this may be the case. However, there are many of you who are reading this probably in the UK, and I would argue that BI's 'company policy' is incapable of taking away your consumer's rights. Take that how you will, and i'm not saying CCGM is unplayable, but many people like myself are probably very dissapointed with the current state of this game.

I would like to draw my fellow UK /European customers to this news article: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/281679/buggy-game-purchasers-entitled-to-refund/#

Edit: New article, relevant to this, another computer gaming company think they can misslead customers into thinking they don't have a right to a refund: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2014/08/29/valve-hit-by-australian-consumer-lawsuit/1

It is of course standard practice of large companies to tell you that you have no rights in cases like this, and indeed this practice is poor and I hope this post makes you more aware of your rights (as per the Sales of Goods Act and Sales of Goods Act (Amended) in the UK). Trading Standards are the authority that oversees these rights if you wish to use them.

Now for my bugs list (Some could possibly contain spoilers) and yes, some of them are very minor but are still worth a mention. Please note I started putting together my list before the latest patch, some bugs may no longer exist:

GOOD

(1) Since the last patch, ASSISTING manta combat AI seems much improved - Assisting mantas will regularly open fire now instead of just sitting there (this was my experience in previous patches). This DOES still happen on occasion however, and I still personally feel the combat AI of mantas still need improving.

BAD

(1) New Walrus AI is even more clumsy - Assisting units regularly ram me, even to the point where I almost capsized! perhaps bring back the coding that makes assisting walrusses stop when within a certain distance of the unit they are assisting, as opposed to trying to get into a particular position. When launching all walruses and assisting, sometimes a walrus will ram the carrier or the walrus in front (i hear the bang and damage on one walrus, but didn't see what it rammed into). Clicking to attack a structure still makes walrus just turn it's turret in the direction, and not actually move to that structure. Assisting AI seems like it has zero improvement on movement - walrusses regularly fall behind, changing direction away from it's path for no apparent reason, colliding with each other, getting themselves stuck on rocks, and even throwing themselves off cliffs!!! The walrus is then sometimes stuck and the AI wont move it without player intervention / manual control.

(1a) The walrus AI will not move over the south eastern bridge on deadlock

(2) New manta AI: Sometimes when ordering assisting manta to attack using the radial menu, they just fly about facing the target but don't open fire. Manta still getting stuck when assisting and travelling over tall hills (this happens WAY to often to have not been addressed already) - they don't elevate to fly over the hill, and sometimes get stuck in trees. When using the radial menu to dock all assisting manta units, i've had occasions where the manta unit will show "P" (that it has recieved the command) but it doesn't execute it, but instead stays in an area where it's under fire. I only notice this problem happening when the mantas are in combat, if it happens out of combat, it's usually because the manta is stuck in a tree. Also when ordering individual mantas to attack a building (such as the command centre) using the tactical view, they also often just fly around facing it without opening fire (In my experience, this is more likely to happen if the mantas are already in the viscinity of the target. If they have to move to it, they seem more likely to open fire but I could be wrong so far).

(3) Engine throttle doesn't display correctly when carrier autopilot engaged

(4) When switching from manual control to move-to-waypoint (clicking on map), the carrier shifts direction and speed abruptly - it looks VERY unrealistic

(5) When launching Mantas, the engine sound is silent for the first few seconds on the manta lift, and then straight to 'on', even whilst the graphic of the fired-up engine is displaying. Would be AWESOME if manta engines got up to speed as they ascend in the lift, with the engine sound reflecting this. Equally, if the walrus engine is in high-revs but the walrus isn't actually moving, the engine sound is silent.

(6) tactical map acts differently between skirmish and campaign. Skirmish mode functions properly. campaign mode, the defence strength just stays to the same as whatever the last enemy island selected was. E.g. if you select Fulcrum, all subsequent clicks on your friendly islands will show defence strength as "deadly"

(7) When you turn to look at a wall in first-person mode, you get pushed backwards. When this happened to me In the Fulcrum Satellite dish, i faced an exploding barrel, i got pushed back and the barrel ignited.

(8) When walking down stairs and sometimes in other situations when you're moving in first person mode, your personal shield either gets damaged or lost entirely

(9) Auto-aim has trouble locking onto the small turrets located atop base entrances, sometimes the turrets aren't even highlighted red/yellow

(10) When zoomed in with a walrus, or even a carrier turret, the mouse is too un-responsive compared to when zoomed out. Not sure about other players but i have significant problems targetting moving enemies when using the zoom. Carrier turrets should also be able to zoom in a lot more (like in the original game!)

(11) The mouse itself is subject to 'lag'. The lag does get worst when graphics are at it's highest settings, and respectively less intensive when graphics are at it's lowest, however I suspect this is something to do with how the mouse is handled in the game engine, as i've had other games run slowly on my computer before and the mouse continues to function perfectly.

(12) When an enemy unit is in range and firing-arc of the carrier, the turrets sometimes fail to target them. Sometimes the turrets will just face the enemy unit and not fire. On some occasions an enemy island manta can attack the carrier and the carrier will take a long time to destroy the manta because of this. This seems to happen more when the enemy is close range, I can't be certain but the carrier seems to target and fire properly when attacking units further away. I've also experienced this when moving the carrier close to shore, and turrets open fire on the carrier and the carrier doesn't retaliate.

(12a) The shell cannon AI almost always fires too short of it's target

(13) The main thing that ruins the game for me - island structures are not being considered in 'real time' like how it did in the original game. If you destroy every building on an island, travel to another island and then travel back, that island is completely unharmed! (all buildings have respawned). The island does NOT re-build destroyed structures in real time either - destroy a structure and it stays destroyed as long as you are there, this is even if you timewarp around the island for a day (game time, not a real day), after I did this, buildings rebuilt: zero!

(14) Part of the same problem, destroy the command centre and enemy units carry on attacking, right? (Even though this doesn't really make sense, considering the fact that the command centre has the AI that controls island units, and therefore island units should halt on destruction of the command centre like they do in the original), yet if you travel to another island then back again, all enemy units and active structures on that island are now dissapeared / dormant! On occasion (in patch 1.2), i've seen a turret remain - this turret is marked as NEUTRAL though instead of enemy on the radar, yet it still attacks my units.

(15) Similarly, when capturing an island, some turrets and other buildings instantly appear on the radar, yet the turrets/buildings are not actually there, nor are they being 'built' like in the original carrier command.

(16) Similar to this, when arriving at a friendly island to defend it from the enemy carrier, all enemy carrier units just spawn on the island when you arrive. This is even if the island has been under attack for AGES before you get there. As usual all island structures are spawned upon your arrival, so it looks like the battle only just begins as you arrive, when the island should have sustained heavy damage from the enemy's attacks. Normally when not arriving at the island, the island will usually get taken even if it just takes a long time (the enemy carrier rarely retreats, and you also don't get notified that the island repelled the attack like you do in the original carrier command). Upon arrival to the island, only then does the game consider the fight in real-time and my island defences obliterate the enemy carrier's units in under 30 seconds. If the enemy carrier units manage to destroy my island's units and turrets in the viscinity, the enemy carrier units do NOT make their way to my command centre - they just sit there until an island manta finds them and engages them.

Some people have said they have witnessed enemy carrier units taking an island from them, however in 1.06, when the enemy carrier units defeats my island's defences local to them, the walruses still just sit there, and do not attempt to take the island from me.

(16a) correction to 16, I witnessed for the first time today, enemy walruses moving towards my command centre. 99% of the time they do just sit there, but this time they started progressing towards the command centre. However, they got to just outside the walled section of the command centre and just stopped there instead. I waited around for ages, and the enemy carrier walruses just didn't move.

(16b) In any case, enemy carrier units are too weak to take on most islands. Not only do they have to rely on AI to accomplish their job, their often not as well equipped as my units. For example, enemy carrier mantas should be using shields.

(17) I have also experiened MULTIPLE INSTANCES of an enemy turret on my FRIENDLY ISLAND when arriving to defend it....

(18) Another problem about things not being considered in 'real time', I arrived at my friendly stockpile island (Lingard) only to find that the enemy carrier is docked there. There was no warning saying that the island was under attack, and there were no enemy vehicles on the island; HOWEVER, the enemy carrier is still there, so why is the island not flashing red?

(19) If you destroy an island's refinery or factory, the resources that island supplies is correctly removed. HOWEVER, when I destoyed my island's factory, and converted it to a resource island, the island produced materials even though there was NO refinery there, there was still a secondary/decorative factory structure present near where the actual factory was located (should have been changed to a refinery secondary/decorative structure), and the destroyed structure was still marked 'factory - destroyed' as opposed to refinery as it should have been.

(20) Units and the carrier will attack things that are behind a building. My carrier destroyed the enemy command centre when attacking something behind it

(21) The carrier attacks things that aren't there! the carrier was continuously shelling something at Styx, I moved the carrier towards it to find out what it was firing at, and then the flak cannons started firing in the air. Needless to say, there was nothing there (I also sent a Manta to investigate). The carrier also shouldn't use it's shell cannon to attack airborne targets anyway. Perhaps an option to turn off auto-targetting on the shell cannon for air targets would be a good idea, if some people disagree.

(22) The movement AI 'jitters'. What I mean by this is i've occasionally seen the carrier 'wobble' when going somewhere by automatic pilot. - Was possibly grounding? Walrus AI paths will rapidly and continuously change on the tactical map. Another example is if the carrier is inside the 'cove' at vulcan, the barque will shift between a direct path and around the land into the cove. As the switch between these paths happens continuously, the barque keeps stopping to adjust it's heading, making the bargue take much much longer to arrive than what it should. - Possibly fixed

(22a) The barque will still sometimes not be able to reach the carrier. This is true at Frontier if you move your carrier right up to the pier. After further testing, I can't see the jittery AI with the carrier anymore, but if you fly a manta close to a carrier (yours or the enemy's) whilst it is moving forwards, the carrier will seem to jitter then.

(23) When production of an item is complete, the order that items are listed in the 'supplies' menu appears to be re-arranged at random. If you are busy filling up the barque with supplies, then often you end up clicking on the wrong item or having to search again for the item you wanted delivered.

(24) The under-whelming AI voice and the repair menu / game itself refers to walrus docks as right and left as opposed to port and starboard

(25) When deploying defensive drones from the carrier, they just instantly appear out of nowhere. It does upset me to see so many shortcuts taken where it leads to the original game made years and years ago surpass the new re-make.

(26) Taking a screenshot using print screen results in just a white box when pasting it into any imaging program (I'm not aware of any other way to take a screenshot in the NON-steam version?)

(27) When at an island (Vattland) the enemy carrier appeared to be sitting there, however it's just part of the hull, guns, and hammerhead launcher showing. Also the carrier is not physically there, the weapons didn't react to my mantas, weapons fire went straight through it and hit the water, and my mantas could also fly through it. I have taken a screenshot of this using my phone (due to problem number 26)

(28) At Duessa, upon taking over the island with a hacking capsule, an island walrus followed my walrus 8 all the way back to the carrier. upon docking walrus 8, the island walrus returned to the island

(29) Walrus AI seems to be bugged when using waypoint mode to disable a que of firewalls. The walrus disables the first, then just sits there without proceeding onto the next firewall.

(30) The game itself is still suffering from random crashes, the most current is that it keeps crashing after a long fight at deadlock. The last crash was about 5 seconds after taking over the island. It seems that if the crash happened at an island and you re-load the game, the crash will reliably happen at the same island. I have also witnessed this at Vulcan, where it took several re-load attempts to gain control of the island before the game crashes. After further investigation, I've found that for the crash not to happen, you have to go to another island and make the game load that island. When pursuing the enemy carrier near an island where the game kept crashing, the game crashed even when i was half way between that island and another island.

(31) Ever since the SDK patch, the game sometimes continuously re-loads textures. Objects in game will turn blank and re-load, tactical view of an island will do the same thing. I have noticed that save games will also take 2-3x longer to load. This problem didn't exist before the SDK patch, not for me anyway. - Appears to be fixed

(32) With the carrier moving to another side of an island, sometimes the auto-pilot no-go-zone is too close, and the carrier will recieve damage from grounding. One example I can think of note is the southern side of deadlock, however it has happened on other islands that i can't recall the name of.

POSSIBLY INTENTIONAL?

(1) The vertical firing arc of the carrier defensive turrets are un-even between port and starboard. One side can target further downwards than the other side!

CONCLUSION:

Is the game worth £30 like a lot of retailers and BI are charging? NO

Is the game worth £12 like what I paid from a UK based retailer? Just about...perhaps

Is the game worthy of the name Carrier Command? Absolutely Not.

Edited October 11, 2014 by atroublestarter
Update to bugs list

[wraith2021 1]

Ok, I agree that the game needs work.

Is it unplayable? No

I and many others play this game fine. The AI is not that much of an issue for those of us who are used to the original, as the waypoints were only used to move units in that direction, if anything was in the way then you crashed into it. That is why it was called 'autopilot' on the original game.

As they are still working on patches, then I suggest you just be patient, I'm sure they will get round to fixing all known issues, and patch V1.04 is not far off. Just be thankful that they made Carrier Command in the first place, a game which goes against the grain to be true to the original. Supporting the product is the best way to get the fixes you want, I don't know what getting your money back would achieve other than bury it forever, which is not what we want.

I paid £9.99 from Amazon UK for mine. Although it was on offer, I would have easily paid full price. For me this game with patch V1.03.0014 works fine. When they fix the minor annoyances it will be even better; however not for one second do I find this game unplayable.

[atroublestarter 3]

When you say "is it unplayable? No", it's as if you're suggesting i'm saying that. Please read the part where I say "i'm not saying CCGM is unplayable".

Please also note that although issues with the AI takes several points of note in my bugs list, the list is extensive and I never said myself that the AI is what ruins the game for me. I like that you are giving a positive response to my thread but...have you read it properly? I actually bought this game BECAUSE I played the original so much, and infact I have an amiga emulator on my PC so i can still play the original.

Indeed they are still working on patches right now, but you sound like you're suggesting we don't post about bugs in these forums? "be patient"; and what about issues i've found with the game that they don't know about? what about about things in the game that I find to be an issue (such as shortcuts in game design - please play close attention to issue number 13 and the few after it) that BI finds to be just the way they designed the game? are you suggesting I hold off all feedback until they are no longer patching the game then?

I am again convinced you didn't read my post properly. I haven't said anywhere in the post that I have asked for a refund. I am quoting something a BI staff member once said, and if you read through the forum you may find it. It stuck in my mind as I compiled my bugs list, and made me aware that some people DO want a refund, and some people ARE being told they're not entitled. I am shedding some light on the issue and delivering a list of what I ('ME') don't like about the game.

If you wish to discuss anything from the list I have made, great! If you want to state that there are particular bugs in this list that you DON'T experience, or that you also experience as well as me, great! if you wish to discuss about how great the game is (arguably not on topic for this thread), please feel free to start a new thread.

[wraith2021 1]

I read the whole post. and as I stated that the game needs work, I found it a bit odd that you throw in something about getting a refund in a post about bugs. I was stating that for me the bugs are not a major issue, and although I can play the game, I am willing to hold out for the patches rather than run off and demand a refund. Yes you are entitled to a refund, but that would be from where you bought it, not from BIS directly. To me the post seemed to be more aimed at stirring up something than reporting known bugs. The conclusion of your post is what I disagreed with. It is probably the only remake of a game (although buggy) that is as close to the original as you are going to get.

[atroublestarter 3]

I'm glad to see that you read the whole post, however I'm then confused why you sound like you think i'm saying the game is unplayable and that I want a refund. Perhaps you are not understanding what you read and you should read it more carefully.

I am aware that someone before now HAS asked for a refund, so no matter what you have to say on this subject dude - It's happened. That person got told they are not entitled to a refund. This game is one of the buggiest i've ever played (as you can probably notice from the list), and there are so many short-cuts in the game design (as i mention again, problems 13 and the next few below) that it has ruined the general 'feel' of the game for me. In no way am I currently saying I will be getting a refund (though the future is yet to be seen on this), but I am aware that others do, and i'm letting other people know their consumers rights in this regard, because this gentleman was told no and it's also in BI's terms and conditions on playing the game (but it is still illegal in the UK to sign away your statutory rights through the use of terms and conditions etc). The REASON some people want a refund is because of the huge list of bugs present in the game upon release - and I hope this clears up the 'oddness' for you, for that introduction being in the same thread as my bug list. The issue of who gives you the refund is pretty irrelevent.

I'm glad to see you're holding out for patches - I hope the game is up to an acceptable standard for you by the time patching finishes. If they just fix all BUGS though, and don't address the issues I have with the actual game engine (again, number 13 and the few below), I will still be dissapointed. Unfortunately, I DO own a game where patching finished, and there's still a game BREAKING bug (you are unable to finish the game, because you lose the ability to select your units). If you have never had that experience, where you are not satisfied with a game after patching has been discontinued, then perhaps that's why you find my urgency and effort 'odd'.

I'm sorry to hear that you seem to think this post is aimed at causing trouble. To me, it seems like you're doing exactly the same. This thread has a small section dedicated to letting UK customers know their rights in the case of this game (as i know some have been miss-informed), and then a massive list of bugs that took me hours to compile, coupled with some suggestions too. If I was here to start trouble, and didn't want changes made to the game for the better, then why would I bother making a bugs list? Why would I bother making suggestions? I would of just posted the part about the refunds that you seem to have trouble with. I re-iterate too, that not all these bugs are already known, so please - refrain from posting incorrect information.

I'm not interested in argueing with you about you saying I'm here to start trouble when you're doing exactly that - Please keep all future posting constructive and about the bugs list that I put a lot of effort into making.

Thank you, and have a good day.

[species1571 64]

Mostly all good points and I have experienced almost all of them myself, with a few exceptions:

10) Kind of, but for me, it's the zoomed OUT view that's way too sensitive/twitchy. They insist on keeping this stupid mouse acceleration in the game when there is ZERO need for it, it makes it hard for me to use the deck guns without zoom and pretty much guarantees the first time I played the FPS campaign will also be the last. Just a painful experience in those parts.

11) This is down to them not using a "hardware" mouse pointer, ie. the game software is rendering the pointer graphic, rather than it being rendered by the operating system. It is mostly noticable in the menu and sometimes in the map screen for me.

14) The tips in the loading screens do say that destroying the CC will cause units to continue attacking, so this isn't a bug. You have to consider the units/turrets as having some degree of autonomy, with the CC only sending them information about who the enemy is, rather than the CC controlling every move of every unit. It would also make it too much of a breeze to storm in, destroy the CC and rebuild on every island, so they want to discourage this.

18) If he has no units on the island and is just sitting there, it can't really be called an attack.

24) In the case of an aircraft carrier, the sides of the ship are correctly identified as left/right, not port/starboard. Because aircraft can land on the flight deck in both directions, this is to avoid confusion between the carrier and the pilot about which side of the ship they are talking about. If landing head-on, the pilot's starboard wing would be facing the ship's left (port) side.

26) I have the non-Steam version, PrtScr is working for me. Occasionally the capture will just be a bunch of coloured dots, but most times it's fine.

31) Did you by any chance unpack the data files using the Unpack tool? I have also noticed the game loads slower since SDK, but just assumed it was because I unpacked all the files.

POSSIBLY INTENTIONAL 1) Don't you mean between front and back? The front guns are lower down on the sides of the carrier, the back ones are up on the deck. This makes the front ones more suited for destroying walruses and the back ones more for anti-air defence. EDIT: I just checked, the back right can aim lower than the back left, this is because the back left would be able to shoot into the carrier deck if it was set lower.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Species1571

[atroublestarter 3]

Hi there Species! I'm glad you've replied to my thread, I've seen a lot of your posts whilst I read the forums and you often raise some seriously good points.

(10 & 11) It's interesting that you experience the complete opposite for me. Does reducing mouse sensativity in windows (or a seperate customising program if it came with your mouse) take any effect? I would imagine it wont, but it's just an idea. I have the mouse sensativity set neither on minimum or maximum (it sounds like you've set yours on minimum and it's still too sensative). For me, the killer is that mouse 'lag'. It will take that fraction of a second longer to register where i'm moving the mouse than usual, so controlling things with the mouse, or simply trying to be accurate with it to click on buttons is awkward. A lot of games have the option for hardware mouse acceleration, it's a shame this option isn't available now.

(14) I should of mentioned that some things in my list are things I don't like about the game that are different to the original, rather than all of them being bugs. Sorry about that. I do agree, it's too easy to storm in and destroy the CC. But things like the CC shield solves this issue, or making the defenses around the CC or the CC armor itself much stronger would of been preferable to me. If the radar is active on the island, it would also be prudent to have most island units move to attack them (like they do in the original), and that would also help defend the CC against attack. People may still disagree after i've made the above points, i'm not saying i'm 100% right, it's just my ideas on what I think is better than currently in effect.

(18) You're right here! but surely the island should still detect that the carrier has approached it and warn you?

(31) Indeed you are correct, I unpacked the data. I was under the impression the game just used the original packed files though, until you loaded a mod? but it appears I presumed incorrectly.

(1) Indeed, this is probably intentional then, but just something I noticed.

I'm curious to see what you think about numbers 13 and the few below it? I destroyed almost every structure on an enemy island, I time warped around it until a game's day worth of time had passed, and no structures were rebuilt. When I travelled to another island and back again, the island was as if I'd never been there. In the original, I enjoyed the fact that an island would continuously regenerate it's destroyed structures, and when watching the enemy carrier attack one of my islands, my island would do the same. It's these little details that I miss, that made an old game so ahead of it's time.

[wraith2021 1]

I'm glad to see that you read the whole post, however I'm then confused why you sound like you think i'm saying the game is unplayable and that I want a refund. Perhaps you are not understanding what you read and you should read it more carefully.

I am aware that someone before now HAS asked for a refund, so no matter what you have to say on this subject dude - It's happened. That person got told they are not entitled to a refund. This game is one of the buggiest i've ever played (as you can probably notice from the list), and there are so many short-cuts in the game design (as i mention again, problems 13 and the next few below) that it has ruined the general 'feel' of the game for me. In no way am I currently saying I will be getting a refund (though the future is yet to be seen on this), but I am aware that others do, and i'm letting other people know their consumers rights in this regard, because this gentleman was told no and it's also in BI's terms and conditions on playing the game (but it is still illegal in the UK to sign away your statutory rights through the use of terms and conditions etc). The REASON some people want a refund is because of the huge list of bugs present in the game upon release - and I hope this clears up the 'oddness' for you, for that introduction being in the same thread as my bug list. The issue of who gives you the refund is pretty irrelevent.

I'm glad to see you're holding out for patches - I hope the game is up to an acceptable standard for you by the time patching finishes. If they just fix all BUGS though, and don't address the issues I have with the actual game engine (again, number 13 and the few below), I will still be dissapointed. Unfortunately, I DO own a game where patching finished, and there's still a game BREAKING bug (you are unable to finish the game, because you lose the ability to select your units). If you have never had that experience, where you are not satisfied with a game after patching has been discontinued, then perhaps that's why you find my urgency and effort 'odd'.

I'm sorry to hear that you seem to think this post is aimed at causing trouble. To me, it seems like you're doing exactly the same. This thread has a small section dedicated to letting UK customers know their rights in the case of this game (as i know some have been miss-informed), and then a massive list of bugs that took me hours to compile, coupled with some suggestions too. If I was here to start trouble, and didn't want changes made to the game for the better, then why would I bother making a bugs list? Why would I bother making suggestions? I would of just posted the part about the refunds that you seem to have trouble with. I re-iterate too, that not all these bugs are already known, so please - refrain from posting incorrect information.

I'm not interested in argueing with you about you saying I'm here to start trouble when you're doing exactly that - Please keep all future posting constructive and about the bugs list that I put a lot of effort into making.

Thank you, and have a good day.

Intention can never be truly conveyed in text, and I feel this is where we got off on the wrong foot. Your urgency for these bugs to be addressed is felt by most on this forum, including me, but fixing them without creating a million more takes time, and in that sense I am being patient. Especially as they have said the next patch is not far off. People's need for a refund is all well and good, and yes there are those that have already abandoned the game, especially on the Xbox 360. But I have faith that BIS will do the right thing, especially as the only reason they made the game was to actually have something that they themselves could play.

All your points are valid, and justified. I am one of those people who knows my rights when it comes to sales of goods, and I just felt it was an odd place to post about it, rather than in the general section where it would make more sense. However, I also feel that it is a double edged sword, take away the funding, and we don't get a fixed game due to lack of support. I have no doubt that people have asked for a refund, but you get that refund from the place you bought it, not from the developers.

As for bugs there are a few that I have learned to avoid, like clicking on a target and expecting you walrus to drive over and shoot it. Instead I click near it, then take it out myself. Clicking 'dock' while a manta is in battle just makes it follow the enemy, so I jump in and get them back to the ship myself.

I hope this helps clear things up, and my intentions were to find out what your intentions were, not to get into an argument, some parts did come across as misleading; you have cleared those things up in your last post.

[species1571 64]

I'm curious to see what you think about numbers 13 and the few below it? I destroyed almost every structure on an enemy island, I time warped around it until a game's day worth of time had passed, and no structures were rebuilt. When I travelled to another island and back again, the island was as if I'd never been there. In the original, I enjoyed the fact that an island would continuously regenerate it's destroyed structures, and when watching the enemy carrier attack one of my islands, my island would do the same. It's these little details that I miss, that made an old game so ahead of it's time.

Yes, I agree with all of your other points apart from the ones I mentioned. I only played all the way through the campaign one time (first time I played half way through, got to Vattland and then it crashed every time, so I applied the first patch which fixed this, but had to start over again), so I don't know about the one about the island strength not displaying properly, but I did get all the other ones like "shield lost" every time I touched something.

About the islands' buildings suddenly re-appearing, yes I agree. One time, I had completely stripped an island and was just ready to go in with a hack capsule when I got the message that the next-door island was being attacked, so I went to defend it first and when I came back, like you say, it was as if I had never been there.

[atroublestarter 3]

Intention can never be truly conveyed in text, and I feel this is where we got off on the wrong foot. Your urgency for these bugs to be addressed is felt by most on this forum, including me, but fixing them without creating a million more takes time, and in that sense I am being patient. Especially as they have said the next patch is not far off. People's need for a refund is all well and good, and yes there are those that have already abandoned the game, especially on the Xbox 360. But I have faith that BIS will do the right thing, especially as the only reason they made the game was to actually have something that they themselves could play.

All your points are valid, and justified. I am one of those people who knows my rights when it comes to sales of goods, and I just felt it was an odd place to post about it, rather than in the general section where it would make more sense. However, I also feel that it is a double edged sword, take away the funding, and we don't get a fixed game due to lack of support. I have no doubt that people have asked for a refund, but you get that refund from the place you bought it, not from the developers.

As for bugs there are a few that I have learned to avoid, like clicking on a target and expecting you walrus to drive over and shoot it. Instead I click near it, then take it out myself. Clicking 'dock' while a manta is in battle just makes it follow the enemy, so I jump in and get them back to the ship myself.

I hope this helps clear things up, and my intentions were to find out what your intentions were, not to get into an argument, some parts did come across as misleading; you have cleared those things up in your last post.

I'm greatful we have cleared this up - carrier command is the first game in ages where I have been excited for it's realease since learning of it's development - you can imagine my dissapointment when I started digging into game mechanics!

I myself also agree that the AI bug isn't game-breaking, although extremely irritating. I feel I am one of very few who are actually more concerned with game mechanics surrounding things like islands and their structures (and the island rebuilding those structures, instead of just spawning everything on your arrival to an island). It's just funny that if you watch the map as you arrive on your friendly island, enemy units just spawn in the centre. If you waited an hour, the enemy units would still not take your island from you (never has for me anyway). It's just shortcuts all round.

I agree that getting refunds is not good for the funding of the development of carrier command, and the devlopment of it is something I want to see, providing it develops into something that isn't surpassed in several aspects from it's 20 year old original. It's just I didn't like to see companies taking people's money, and telling them they have no right to get their money back if they feel they've been short changed, you'd be surprised how many people don't know their rights!

You just gave me an idea - use waypoints to make the walrus go near to a structure, and then destroy it by queing the command (holding down shift).

once again, I'm glad we cleared this up :-)

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

Yes, I agree with all of your other points apart from the ones I mentioned. I only played all the way through the campaign one time (first time I played half way through, got to Vattland and then it crashed every time, so I applied the first patch which fixed this, but had to start over again), so I don't know about the one about the island strength not displaying properly, but I did get all the other ones like "shield lost" every time I touched something.

About the islands' buildings suddenly re-appearing, yes I agree. One time, I had completely stripped an island and was just ready to go in with a hack capsule when I got the message that the next-door island was being attacked, so I went to defend it first and when I came back, like you say, it was as if I had never been there.

The original carrier command, would even remember where you placed your ACCB ;-)

This is definitely the main thing I want to see changed in CCGM

[scrapser 11]

I will add a few observations of my own. Having played the original on my Amiga helps me understand some of what's in the game and why. I can also see some differences between the two.

The main "bugs" I see:

1. The occasional game crash which usually happens after extended play (maybe an hour or so).

2. The graphics start getting weird with flickers and bands of geometric shapes flashing on the screen. This only happens after extended gameplay as well, so I restart the game from last saved to clear it.

3. Sometimes the games starts to stutter about once a second. This seems to happen when the enemy carrier is somewhere nearby (and not necessarily close enough to trigger the proximity alert). It can start when I think I've got the island to myself, then the stutter begins, and then eventually the enemy carrier appears. If I drive it away by damaging it enough, the stutter stops after the carrier leaves.

4. Twice now I have arrived at an island (one neutral and one enemy) and as I made my way through the water in a Walrus, four enemy Walruses appeared in the water in front of me with heavy armor. The first time (neutral island) they came out of a barque. The vessel looked like the barque at least. There were also 4 enemy Mantas and all units were invisible except for the targetting square appearing and the icons showing on my radar. They all chased me but did not fire. The second time (enemy island) they just bubbled up out of the water. Walruses only. They were not invisible and attacked in force. The enemy carrier was not nearby in either incident.

5. Small turrets on walls do not always show the targeting square unless I get really close. This seems intermittent.

Here are some non-bug observations.

Vehicle Damage:

The Walruses can be driven off a steep cliff from great height and receive only minor damage. This seems unrealistic to me as I can exploit it to get quickly back to my carrier.

Island Strategy and Enemy Carrier AI:

The island taking strategy seems to have some exploitable characteristics or at the very least, the enemy carrier is incapable of doing the same thing as I do. I string my islands by setting up islands with low output as defense to cover nearby higher output islands set up as factory or mining. This makes it impossible for the enemy carrier to mount any real threat. In the early to mid part of the game the carrier just goes for other neutral islands, even if they are far from his own island chain. After all or most islands are taken, it goes after the weakest islands in my chain instead of attacking any keystone islands I have that would break up my own strategy. It's as if the enemy has no way to figure out where my real weaknesses are and what would be the most effective attack. I know it's hard to come up with an algorithm to mimic human decision making but there must be some way to level the playing field in this regard. I'm not sure but it seems like the introduction of island defense strength and how each island helps the other's strength is having unexpected results. In the old game, the carrier seemed to be more intelligent in prosecuting the attack on my island chain and messing with my ability to maintain a decent production rate. Hopefully this aspect of gameplay is not that hard to improve and will be.

There were things in the campaign that are not in the strategy that I think would enhance the gameplay:

1. Forcefield gates with the need to unlock them would be nice and force you to have two Walruses in play at two separate locations.

2. Advanced weapons should still be made available as you hack resource centers and the old abandoned satellite buildings.

3. Many of the weapons are fun to use but not really critical to defeating an island. It would be nice if some defenses required specific weapons forcing you to obtain the weapon first before you can successfully defeat the island. This would enhance the island strategy element significantly.

This is all I have for now. I enjoy the game and hope it continues to grow in popularity and sophistication.

[Gnrl_Grad 1]

3. Sometimes the games starts to stutter about once a second. This seems to happen when the enemy carrier is somewhere nearby (and not necessarily close enough to trigger the proximity alert). It can start when I think I've got the island to myself, then the stutter begins, and then eventually the enemy carrier appears. If I drive it away by damaging it enough, the stutter stops after the carrier leaves.

I just experienced this as well for the first time. I have arrived at an island which enemy just captured, enemy carrier is nearby and out of fuel but I can't see him because of scramblers on the island. The stutter is really bad and very obvious. I tried to narrow down the source and it seems to be connected with CarrAssault.Update(); which is called in the military advisor script. To test I temporarily commented that line out and the stuttering went away. The stuttering also seems to depend on my carriers position as when I move it to different position the stutter also goes away.

Edit: after a lot of digging, it looks like this is happening if your carrier is in a "bad position" for the enemy carrier to attack you - if g_Game.CheckCarrierPosition(fromPos, toPos) in carrrierassault.h returns a bad position my game stutters but if it's returning an ok position the stuttering goes away. I don't know if it happens under other circumstances but I made a post in the feedback section, hopefully they will look into it.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Gnrl_Grad

[atroublestarter 3]

I haven't really seen fixes for any of the bugs /problems I've posted since the last 2 patches came out, nor has there been a response from any staff so I'm probably wasting my time here but, additional bugs:

(1) The screen constantly goes too bright or too dark to the point where you can't see anything (workaround is to press print screen and it temporarily goes back to normal) - Fixed in 1.06

(2) Walrus missiles are not targetting enemy aircraft, only land targets (this problem is intermittent, I have been able to target aircraft since making note of this bug, but it has happened to me several times where I couldn't get a lock on an attacking manta)

(3) additional information for bug number (32) in my original post - the south western corner of terminus will also cause you to recieve grounding damage if using the carrier autopilot to go round the island

(4) sometimes when close to an island, the carrier can get 'thrown' sideways. the carrier moves sideways really fast away from the island

(4a) This problem also seems to be happening with other vehicles too. I set my walrus to dock and it was just sitting there, this seems to be happening very often in the latest version! next thing i know is the walrus shoots across the island to the carrier in about 2 seconds and instantly docks! - FIXED

(5) the problem mentioned in bug number (12) of my original post also affects the enemy carrier. objects are in firing range and firing arcs of turrets, but the turrets either completely ignore the target or change to face the target but don't fire!

(6) In relation to the plenty of problems caused by objects not being considered in real time, if you destroy the enemy carrier at an island, the cut scene will play and when the game loads back to the island you're at - all buildings are fully restored instantly!!!

(6a) another addition to the amplitude of problems caused by the objects mechanics of the game - if you destroy the enemy carrier whilst you have a scout drone active, the cutscene will play and upon return to the game (which forces a re-load of the island you are at), the scout drone is LOST!

(7) Carrier's shell cannon is targeting aircraft, which obviously are next to impossible for it to hit. This is wasting ammunition and damaging things on the ground that I don't want it to damage... When targetting ground enemy targets, it's also firing directly at that target rather than aiming above it to allow for the arc in the trajectory of a shell - Meaning all shells fall short of it's target unless the target is very close range. It is so often that my walrusses will be approaching an island, enemy walruses or mantas will approach my walruses, and the carrier main cannon will open fire only to hit my own walruses!!!! Also being hit and destroyed which is really annoying is the command centre and firewall access points! :-(

(7a) In addition, today I was playing a game and arrived to defend a friendly island, my own carrier used it's shell cannon to target enemy aircraft, which ended up just bombarding my own island!!!

(8) Upon arriving at an island to defend it, all the enemy carrier's units were on the island or destroyed, then when I engage the enemy carrier, it launches all of it's units....almost as if the units attacking the island were just spawned there and not really the carrier's units....hmmmmm.....

(9) I experienced one episode where every time I changed screen from a manta it would head to the island I was at. I didn't understand it as an enemy wasn't close by and it didn't have a course/target set for autopilot. After 2 or 3 attempts of trying to get it to stay still I gave up and wanted to see where it was going. However it just collided into a hill and destroyed itself!!

(10) The walrus's repair beam repairs mantas, but DEPLETES it's shield before it will repair the manta.

Most or all of the other bugs i've listed in my original post still exist :-(

Edited July 10, 2013 by atroublestarter
additions to bug list

[Gnrl_Grad 1]

(1) The screen constantly goes too bright or too dark to the point where you can't see anything (workaround is to press print screen and it temporarily goes back to normal)

I'm getting this same graphics problem with the current patch. This didn't happen in the previous patches so it might be to do with most recent graphics changes. The game fades up to a really bright level with desaturated colour and then I tired pressing print screen like you say and it fades back down to normal brightness. Kinda like a very bright gamma setting or something. If I alt tab to desktop and then go back to the game the brightness goes back up again. Sometimes the effect comes and goes itself, really strange.

[puppetmasterjjk 10]

Thank you for making this thread, atroublestarter. I feel the same way about the bugs of the game. To sum it all up, it's just incredibly frustrating to play.

Before I complain too much, I want to say thank you to Bohemia for sticking with the game and continuing to patch it.

I pre-ordered the game, felt that the buggy pre-release versions of the game were excusable of course, and at least we had a test phase with feedback to make sure that the game would have a good, profitable launch. I check back from time to time to see if the latest patches have fixed the major problems. I thought I'd put quite a few more hours into the game now that it has hit 1.05.

It's almost a year later now and the CTD's are only just being ironed out, while most of the major issues of gameplay, which is what earned the game such low reviews on launch, seem to be at about the same state as they were in early testing.

The biggest problem of the gameplay still seems to be the awful AI of units. For now I'd say that you might as well remove object collision entirely from units on auto-pilot until pathfinding is fixed, as they can't even be trusted to stay on a road at this state. Trying to fight a battle strategically is a huge gamble and a waste of time in many cases. Bringing multiple units at once into an attack is dangerous, as you can never trust them to reliably fire at a target on their own, and may just get themselves stuck somewhere while they're taking fire themselves, meaning you either lose the unit entirely, or have to make the long, difficult journey to your nearest rearm/repair stations (again, struggling with the pathfinding just to get there). You really should not have to spend more than half of your effort during a battle trying to babysit the AI. It almost makes me wish there was a way to timewarp and auto-resolve a battle. It needs an overhaul.

I can go on about other bugs that I have trouble with, but they've all been covered in the past.

Just about every review of the game I've read since release talks about how much potential there is, but major gameplay bugs like those pointed out in this thread are what basically kill this game for most people, and outsiders don't even want to give it a try because of it.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Puppetmasterjjk

[atroublestarter 3]

Another addition to the bugs list (i'm not sure if this appeared in 1.05 or 1.06!)

(11) At times when giving a Walrus a command to move to a particular point on the map of an island, it will accept the order but it will not move! if you instead click on a piece of land that is on the way to the destination (such as outside of the walls of a particular area) you can then often get it to move to that point instead.

(12) At random times (i cannot reliably reproduce the bug), the sensor array on an enemy island will become invulnerable

(13) In the game i'm playing now, there are no refuelling points at all on the island 'Treasure', yet there are 4 ammo resupply points, and 4 repair stations

(14) Since the 1.06 beta, (likely present in the release 1.06 as well but not tested as of yet),the game will sometimes crash when loading a new map. I have only seen this happen when the enemy carrier is present (it happens more often than not, when arriving at a friendly island to defend). It also just happened to me when loading the video of the enemy carrier sinking, the only difference being that with the loading of the cutscene, I eventually got an exception error message. When the crash happens from arriving at a friendly island with the enemy carrier present, it just freezes at the loading / tip page.

Edited July 19, 2013 by atroublestarter
Additions to discovered bugs

[species1571 64]

At times when giving a Walrus a command to move to a particular point on the map of an island, it will accept the order but it will not move! if you instead click on a piece of land that is on the way to the destination (such as outside of the walls of a particular area) you can then often get it to move to that point instead.

Yes, I'm also getthing this a lot now. I believe it has only been since the 1.6 updates.

[atroublestarter 3]

I think you're right!

On a side note, i've done some testing of the walrus pathfinding and assisting AI. I must say, I can't really see much difference!

If i send a walrus to a position on the map, it seems to put the throttle down a bit more and get there quicker, but it could just be my imagination. Assisting walrus AI however is definitely just as dumb. I witnessed an assisting walrus just now, going around in circles as normal instead of heading to the walrus it's supposed to be assisting. It even tried to go over a large rock whilst facing away from the target walrus, i.e. trying to climb over a rock in the wrong direction.

One observation I made is that the walrus AI doesn't seem to account for the narrowness of a obstacle a tree provides. Instead of just turning a bit to go round it, the walrus will stop, turn right or left, and wont carry on back to it's original path - this is what lead to my witnessed walrus going round in circles and going the wrong way, it appears.

[disorder 1]

Eh funny you should mention that troublestarter. I have been around since 1.01 and I can't really notice much. There are still islands with lots of trees and awkward corners and hills that keep confusing it.

[atroublestarter 3]

(15) There has been many many problems arise as a result of the game engine not considering object's existence in 'real time' when you are not present. Another one I just found is if you arrive to defend a friendly island, let your island defences beat up the enemy units a bit, leave to the next closest island, then come back again, your island is fully restored, whilst the enemy carrier's units are not. This is easy to abuse, and suffice to say the battle just starts again when you arrive, but with less units from the enemy carrier.

(16) When I own the island Treasure (not tested when island is enemy island), 1 friendly manta spawns possibly in the ground (it's on the map, but invisible, and can't move etc) in the south eastern corner

(17) When defending a friendly island, I've noticed they seem not to produce new mantas or walruses even when garages and hangers are still present and intact. Will test more to confirm.

(18) The manta AI will never fire rockets or missiles at the enemy carrier. When setting them to attack the enemy carrier, they're probably worse than when they're trying to attack an island target....they just fly around the carrier a lot without much weapons fire at all. (As of the latest patch, Manta running by AI that are ordered to attack a building like the command centre will still continue to just fly close by and rarely open fire, meaning they will just hover around until they die if there are enemies close by)

(19) After further testing, it appears assisting manta respond to "manta # is under attack". They seem not to respond to enemies that hit the shield of a manta they are assisting, so when using a shield it seems that your assisting manta take a long time to start fighting enemies.

(20) If you stop a walrus on even a slight hill or small hole in the ground so it is not horizontally level, it will continue moving /sliding sideways and / or rotating, and it can also switch the way that it is sliding / rotating, making it very difficult to aim, especially in zoomed mode. If you leave the walrus there for a while, sometimes one or more wheels will also start bouncing and the walrus then starts bouncing

(21) you can't set a manta to dock whilst it has cargo, but if you set it to dock, then hook up a walrus, you can then execute that plan. The manta then goes to dock, but dumps the walrus on top of the carrier near the manta launch pads

Edited July 24, 2013 by atroublestarter

[rob04 10]

(18) The manta AI will never fire rockets or missiles at the enemy carrier. When setting them to attack the enemy carrier, they're probably worse than when they're trying to attack an island target....they just fly around the carrier a lot without much weapons fire at all.

This has happened to me many times. My mantas would run out of their charges for their lasers and they would just hover over the enemy carrier or just fly around it. They wouldn't switch to rockets or missiles and I would have to launch them myself by taking control of the mantas manually.

[VasVadum 1]

You shouldn't call things bugs if it's just an issue of realistic and effects. AKA, 4, 5, 13, 14 (kinda), 16, 18, 23, (definitely) 24, 25 and 26.

Those should be categorized as suggestions, not bugs.

Also, don't insert new numbers inside. If you're adding a bug in, add it to the end of the list so you don't mess up other things such as #27 referring to #21's 'bug' which is actually the 'bug' listed in #26.

When a bug is fixed, don't turn it green, that's horrible on a white background. Strike through. It's [ s ] and [ / s ] (without the spaces) around the parts you want to strike out.

#999: some example bug here. Fixed.

I have posted my own bugs lately with no reply as of yet. Such as achievements appearing to be broken. Anyhow, some of your issues, I have not encountered before.

[atroublestarter 3]

I actually fully disagree with some of the things you call an issue of 'realism' and 'effects', as that would be just a graphics problem (which only a couple of them are). The rest affect you or your carrier/units/island in some way.

I agree that some of the things in there should have probably been categorized as suggestions, however it just happened that I was playing the game, saw a load of bugs, and started this thread to keep track. Then when I started looking into the game mechanics through experimentation, I began to notice a butt-load of disappointing attributes - short cuts, and AI cheating (not cheating that gives the AI an advantage, but AI cheating that allows the programmers to ALMOST get away with not doing the job properly). Basically a point of very poor quality, that considering a game made 20 years ago did NOT have, (some aspects of the old game surpass the new game), in my mind, that can only be a bug, even though you, or probably the designers don't consider it to be a bug too. Even though the technical definition says i'm wrong to call it a bug, it's still something that shouldn't be there, if we're looking at it reasonably considering the advancements in technology.

I'm sorry you cannot see the green writing, it appears fine on my monitor (the background of each post is beige / cream for me, not white...). I will change it when I get the chance and consolidate the bugs list into one post, as when trying to figure out what you're talking about with some of the numbers (such as 27 referring to 21 which is actually 26), I couldn't really see the connection so either you're confused or I am.

I guess I haven't been as eager to organise the bugs list as I should be (just adding whatever I find as I find it), since even though i've spent hours finding these bugs and problems, I've never actually had one single response from a developer, saying that this thread was of any use or which issues are being looked into, and more importantly, which issues they DON'T plan to fix.

I read your post earlier on about achievements not working, and I can confirm that originally (un-tested in latest version), at least some achievements were working for me in the campaign.

[VasVadum 1]

27: "I have taken a screenshot of this using my phone (due to problem number 21)"

"(26) Taking a screenshot using print screen results in just a white box"

"(21) The carrier attacks things that aren't there!"

See the connection now? 27 refers to the issue of print screen not working, causing the issue in 26. While 21 has nothing to do with screenshots whatsoever.

[atroublestarter 3]

27: "I have taken a screenshot of this using my phone (due to problem number 21)"

"(26) Taking a screenshot using print screen results in just a white box"

"(21) The carrier attacks things that aren't there!"

See the connection now? 27 refers to the issue of print screen not working, causing the issue in 26. While 21 has nothing to do with screenshots whatsoever.

Ah, Species cleared it up for me, I understand now and have corrected it to point to problem 26 instead of 21. Like I said, at some point I will consolidate it into one, organised list - but will the list be noticed by the devs? hmmmm, this is the question isn't it.